For what it's worth, I also prefer Goliath over Blastoderm although it just missed the cut at 360. The ability to randomly make something huge from the graveyard was marginally more valuable to us than the shroud guy these days, when there are more ways of stalling or dealing indirectly with it.
And Hero of Bladehold is kind of offtopic here, but it's an A++ four drop.
I think I currently have two slots in my green 4cmc slot that I would like to devout to 5/5s. Unfortunately, these two slots have to be divided between four creatures including the above mentioned Blastoderm and Deadbridge Goliath as well as Iwamori of the Open Fist and the new Polukranos, World Eater.
What do you guys think? Also could you rank them please. Thanks.
I think I currently have two slots in my green 4cmc slot that I would like to devout to 5/5s. Unfortunately, these two slots have to be divided between four creatures including the above mentioned Blastoderm and Deadbridge Goliath as well as Iwamori of the Open Fist and the new Polukranos, World Eater.
What do you guys think? Also could you rank them please. Thanks.
Agree with wtwlf. Iwamori is a lot worse than the other three.
Maybe somebody can help me understand why Iwamori is so much worse - or consequently why Polukranos and Deadbridge Goliath are so much better.
I understand that Iwamori has a downside while the others do not, but how often does it really matter? My own cube (630 total cards) has only twenty-eight legendary creatures, and about a third of these are relatively small legends like Thalia or Teeg that would either already have been played or wouldn't hurt too much if I was unlucky enough to have them be put into play.
On the flip side, Iwamori's upside (trample) seems better than Scavenge 4gg or Monstrous xxg + fight.
And for what it counts Iwamori has a relevant creature type (human) that could on rare occasions be an advantage in my cube.
I'm not opposed to replacing him (though I remember him fondly from my Tooth and Nail days), I just want to understand why and convince myself of it.
As a side note I really like Blastoderm and am reluctant to give it up either, however, I see so many cube updates that include Polukranos and Deadbridge Goliath in these spots.
Polukranos is green removal and card advantage. Goliath provides value even if removed/countered. The Fist's drawback isn't relevant all the time, but when it is, it's really terrible. The other guys provide value that you can't get from Iwamori. Trample is good, but card advantage and/or guaranteed value is better, especially because there's no risk of randomly getting blown out by the drawback.
After all these years, Blasto is still your best choice. Having a creature that is bigger than almost everything and immune to removal is just sick.
Blastoderm > Polukranos > Goliath > Iwamori
I understand where you're coming from, but I just can't get on this bandwagon. I've seen Blastoderm just chump blocked for days, and be completely useless if a player plays any tap effects. I would rank them:
Polukranos > Blastoderm > Goliath > Iwamori, which scares the hell out of me. I couldn't imagine playing a card that could possibly allow my opponent to play a Meloku or Thrassa or some other beat stick
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And if they're chump blocking him for days, aren't you generating mad card advantage?
With the quality of token generators these days, you often aren't creating cards or tempo disadvantage. These days, I can get creatures that have "better shroud" (hexproof) AND don't kill themselves.
My green midrange decks don't fear spot removal. They fear sweepers and blockers. Thus, I like four and five drops that help mitigate those weaknesses.
throwing another creature into the mix of Blastoderm, Polukranos, Goliath, Iwamori, wher eyou would throw in Obstinate Baloth" target="blank">Obstinate Baloth?
I like it more than Iwamori, but not by much. It's devastating against aggro, but green midrange decks already rock aggro pretty hard. It's not very good against control, which sucks, because that's the deck that you need the most help against.
The anti-discard clause on the Baloth and Wilt-Leaf Liege is randomly absolutely game-breaking. Both are pretty darn good even without that, but suffer from having ridiculous competition in their respective sections. The Baloth fills a matchup hole that is already one-sided though, and the other options are also slightly better in a vacuum.
Let's not forget that regenrators and deathtouchers also make Blasty pretty terrible when it hits the board. I would still much rather get my spot removal evaders in a package that doesn't kill itself and allows me to Rancor/Jitte/Sword it up.
What would you guys consider to be staples in this slot these days? Anyone care to do a ranking?
FWIW, at the moment I'm running 6: Thrun, Polukranos, Woodland Wanderer, Oracle of Mul Daya, Master of the Wild Hunt, and Wickerbough Elder. This is a pretty even split between big dumb beaters and value creatures that I'm pretty happy with for now, although I could see Woodland Wanderer trading places with Surrak, Goliath, or Centaur pretty easily.
And Thrun is the only one close to getting cut and only because he doesn't actively help any particular deck. He is just good against control decks as a threat that sticks.
And I could see potentially cutting Polukranos or Woodland Wanderer at some point if I had to. The others are staples that I wouldn't consider removing. I think Thrun is critical, because green midrange decks struggle a lot against control, where he shines in a way no other 4cc creature comes close to.
Master of the Wild Hunt
Oracle of Mul Daya
Polukranos, World Eater
Surrak, the Hunt Caller
Thrun, the Last Troll
Wickerbough Elder
I've not really been dissapointed with Surrak since I added him and am not really a fan of Woodland Wanderer because it's not really a mono colored card. I don't doubt that it would probably play out just fine for me but I'd not really feel happy wherever I'd end up classifying it.
Master of the Wild Hunt and Oracle of Mul Daya are my two favorites and I'd probably go up in cube size before cutting either of those two. I'm also a fan of Polukranos and Thrun as 4-drop beaters. Surrak is pretty good and I currently run him but he's a guy I'm willing to move around. There's so much utility in the 3-drop section that I don't like filling the 4's with them.
The last one replaced Surrak, the Hunt Caller when BFZ came out, though the bear-puncher is on the verge of coming back in. Not that I plan to cut any particular card for it right not, but it is currently the next best green 4-drop that I would include.
Thoughts on Deadbridge Goliath vs Polukranos? My initial thoughts are that Deadbridge Goliath shores up the weaknesses of an expensive dumb beater (cheap/efficient removal, board wipe, counterspells) a bit better by providing value even when dying. Goliath also provides discard value (Survival of the Fittest, Fauna Shaman, Lotleth Troll). Both have clunky expensive abilities with ease of use leaning towards Polukranos. I like that the body size supports the Wildfire Deck, so I want to run at least one. Currently have both in my list, but haven't tested in quite a while.
And Hero of Bladehold is kind of offtopic here, but it's an A++ four drop.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I think I currently have two slots in my green 4cmc slot that I would like to devout to 5/5s. Unfortunately, these two slots have to be divided between four creatures including the above mentioned Blastoderm and Deadbridge Goliath as well as Iwamori of the Open Fist and the new Polukranos, World Eater.
What do you guys think? Also could you rank them please. Thanks.
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I'd say Polukranos > Deadbridge Goliath > Blastoderm > Iwamori.
EDIT: wtwlf123 got there first.
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I agree with this
Maybe somebody can help me understand why Iwamori is so much worse - or consequently why Polukranos and Deadbridge Goliath are so much better.
I understand that Iwamori has a downside while the others do not, but how often does it really matter? My own cube (630 total cards) has only twenty-eight legendary creatures, and about a third of these are relatively small legends like Thalia or Teeg that would either already have been played or wouldn't hurt too much if I was unlucky enough to have them be put into play.
On the flip side, Iwamori's upside (trample) seems better than Scavenge 4gg or Monstrous xxg + fight.
And for what it counts Iwamori has a relevant creature type (human) that could on rare occasions be an advantage in my cube.
I'm not opposed to replacing him (though I remember him fondly from my Tooth and Nail days), I just want to understand why and convince myself of it.
As a side note I really like Blastoderm and am reluctant to give it up either, however, I see so many cube updates that include Polukranos and Deadbridge Goliath in these spots.
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legendary creature
2GG
Trample
5/5
Id rather have the other 3 because their abilities are better then trample.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
I understand where you're coming from, but I just can't get on this bandwagon. I've seen Blastoderm just chump blocked for days, and be completely useless if a player plays any tap effects. I would rank them:
Polukranos > Blastoderm > Goliath > Iwamori, which scares the hell out of me. I couldn't imagine playing a card that could possibly allow my opponent to play a Meloku or Thrassa or some other beat stick
What tap effects other than Tangle Wire are stopping Blastoderm? And if they're chump blocking him for days, aren't you generating mad card advantage?
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With the quality of token generators these days, you often aren't creating cards or tempo disadvantage. These days, I can get creatures that have "better shroud" (hexproof) AND don't kill themselves.
My green midrange decks don't fear spot removal. They fear sweepers and blockers. Thus, I like four and five drops that help mitigate those weaknesses.
Polukranos > Goliath >> Blastoderm >>> Iwamori
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
(We still run Kjeldoran Outpost)
Let's not forget that regenrators and deathtouchers also make Blasty pretty terrible when it hits the board. I would still much rather get my spot removal evaders in a package that doesn't kill itself and allows me to Rancor/Jitte/Sword it up.
How do these stack up against Big Jim's list from 2012?
Thrun, the Last Troll
Wickerbough Elder
Vengevine
Phantom Centaur
Chameleon Colossus
Obstinate Baloth
Blastoderm
Oracle of Mul Daya
Master of the Wild Hunt
What would you guys consider to be staples in this slot these days? Anyone care to do a ranking?
FWIW, at the moment I'm running 6: Thrun, Polukranos, Woodland Wanderer, Oracle of Mul Daya, Master of the Wild Hunt, and Wickerbough Elder. This is a pretty even split between big dumb beaters and value creatures that I'm pretty happy with for now, although I could see Woodland Wanderer trading places with Surrak, Goliath, or Centaur pretty easily.
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Master of the Wild Hunt
Phantom Centaur
Polukranos, World Eater
Thrun, the Last Troll
Wickerbough Elder
Woodland Wanderer
And Thrun is the only one close to getting cut and only because he doesn't actively help any particular deck. He is just good against control decks as a threat that sticks.
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And I could see potentially cutting Polukranos or Woodland Wanderer at some point if I had to. The others are staples that I wouldn't consider removing. I think Thrun is critical, because green midrange decks struggle a lot against control, where he shines in a way no other 4cc creature comes close to.
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Master of the Wild Hunt
Oracle of Mul Daya
Polukranos, World Eater
Surrak, the Hunt Caller
Thrun, the Last Troll
Wickerbough Elder
I've not really been dissapointed with Surrak since I added him and am not really a fan of Woodland Wanderer because it's not really a mono colored card. I don't doubt that it would probably play out just fine for me but I'd not really feel happy wherever I'd end up classifying it.
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- Briarhorn
- Obstinate Baloth
- Polukranos, World Eater
- Thrun, the Last Troll
- Wickerbough Elder
- Woodland Wanderer
The last one replaced Surrak, the Hunt Caller when BFZ came out, though the bear-puncher is on the verge of coming back in. Not that I plan to cut any particular card for it right not, but it is currently the next best green 4-drop that I would include.I never liked Master of the Wild Hunt.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Master of the Wild Hunt
Oracle of Mul Daya
Polukranos, World Eater
Thrun, the Last Troll
Wickerbough Elder
Pretty happy with all of 'em. Master is a personal favorite around here.
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