In theory, sure. In practice, you never want to tap 6 mana for sorcery speed counters (assuming it even dies), whereas Polukranos simply rolls over any creature deck if not dealt with.
FWIW, I agree that Thrun is number one on this list. I've seen plenty of cube matches where one side has done impossibly sweet things, but still lost because they couldn't answer this guy.
I prefer Deadbridge Goliath because there are so many more ways to play it. Playing into graveyard strategies and being able to uncounterably flash him back onto an elf put him over the top of Polukranos's expensive dork removal ability for us.
I think polukranos is way better for cube than dead bridge.
In an average deck they are probably close (polukranos still better) but occasionally you can get polukranos in a huge mana deck and in that deck he's awsome.
Usually involving a gaes cradle , or nykthos... sometimes a way to untap those lands.
Thanks so much for the detailed feedback, everyone. I know Phantom Centaur was a staple a while back, but I don't see it in too many lists these days. I don't have much experience with it, but it looks really strong. Any thoughts on how it holds up these days?
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Phantom Centaur's a fine card, and obviously a great card against black. We've had more consistent success with Woodland Wanderer lately, as the combination of trample and vigilance have made it powerful on both sides of combat. Sometimes it feels less resilient because it can be Terminated, but often the extra toughness makes it feel so much more dominating in combat because it could't get slowly ground down by token chump-blockers. Centaur has some fun interactions though, particularly with equipment, so if you've never cubed with it, it does some cool stuff.
I brought in Phantom Centaur about this time last year and had it in until DTK. It's a great card and I like it more than any of the other ones I'm not running (though I haven't tried Woodland Wanderer). Discussion in the Criminally Excluded thread shows that some people cut Centaur because of the random protection rather than power level (at least at the time).
Yeah, Phantom Centaur is still a good creature, but I removed almost all creatures with color protection from my cube a while ago. Build-in color protection is very swingy and just literally useless against some opponents and really strong against others. I did not like how the value of the cards changed so much depending on a random thing like this.
Phantom Centaur is one of my favorite green four drops of all time. It basically has protection from red in addition to black due to the fact that it takes around 3 burn spells to actually kill it. And as others say if you can get an anthem down or a sword on it, its going to be gg.
Thanks so much for the detailed feedback, everyone. I know Phantom Centaur was a staple a while back, but I don't see it in too many lists these days. I don't have much experience with it, but it looks really strong. Any thoughts on how it holds up these days?
I'm not a fan of random Pro-x cards these days.
X is sometimes black, and other times X is pro-2-burn-spells-or-combat-phases. The counter clause is super awesome on this guy.
In the drafts I've seen it in so far, it's always been played as a 5/5 or bigger. People either draft it for multicolor green decks or they start grabbing random duals after they've already drafted WW.
I'm not a fan of random Pro-x cards these days.
This is how I feel too, especially since too many of the quality creatures with Protection happen to specifically have Protection from Black (Chameleon Colossus, Karmic Guide, Mirran Crusader, Soltari Monk). I didn't like the uninteractive games that were just auto-losses for someone just because the wrong color was open in their seat, so I cut every creature with protection from a specific color a while ago making exceptions for Karmic Guide and Sphinx of the Steel Wind. Phantom Centaur's a cool enough creature that I may give it a shot of WW doesn't work out.
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Man I'm gonna have to snag one for the next update -- 5/5 trampling dudes are welcome to wander these woodlands... and attacking doesn't even cause it to tap. I was expecting it to be a 5/5 about half the time but always is surprisingly incredible! Given that I run more fixing than normal bodes well too.
The necro made me go back and read the entire thread, and I found it interesting to note that there is a lot of discussion on the power of green token production, but no mention of a little guy who's been rating mentions in Multiplayer and EDH for quite a while... Nullmage Shepherd.
While it's definitely slower to get rolling with (hence it's only been mention in an MP/EDH context so far), if you get your token production online, it is capable of obliterating artifact- and/or enchantment-heavy decks. Works the turn it comes into play, an Elf for tribal purposes... it's not bad at all if you have the time and space. So I guess the question is whether green token production has become good enough in the last couple of years for this guy to even rate a mention in 1vs1 cubes, or whether it remains too slow (which I'd imagine it does, but it's at least worth thinking about in here).
Cytoplast Rootkin looks interesting. It was great in MM2 limited and I know it's popular in Peasant cubes too. I don't think it quite gets there in my cube without more explicit counter support but it's tempting to try it out.
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Cytoplast Rootkin looks interesting. It was great in MM2 limited and I know it's popular in Peasant cubes too. I don't think it quite gets there in my cube without more explicit counter support but it's tempting to try it out.
It's pretty bad without explicit +1/+1 counter support, especially in rare lists. Without that, it's just a 4/4 for 4 with a useless activated ability (in a color that can give you a 6/6 vigilant trampler instead for the same cost). If you make a deck with a lot of +1/+1 counter support though, he boosts other guys and makes combat tricky since he can steal counters from other creatures to pump himself. He can also randomly make undying dudes infinite (though I don't think I've ever seen that actually happen).
He's not going to work in the vast majority of rare lists though. There's a reason he got demoted from a rare to an uncommon.
I don't own Master of the Wild Hunt, but I'd run him if I did. Right now I have Oracle of Mul Daya, Wickerbough Elder, Thrun, Polukranos and Surrak. Surrak would be the first cut.
FWIW, I agree that Thrun is number one on this list. I've seen plenty of cube matches where one side has done impossibly sweet things, but still lost because they couldn't answer this guy.
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In an average deck they are probably close (polukranos still better) but occasionally you can get polukranos in a huge mana deck and in that deck he's awsome.
Usually involving a gaes cradle , or nykthos... sometimes a way to untap those lands.
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X is sometimes black, and other times X is pro-2-burn-spells-or-combat-phases. The counter clause is super awesome on this guy.
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To those running Woodland Wanderer, how often (ballpark percentage) is it bigger than a 4/4?
This is how I feel too, especially since too many of the quality creatures with Protection happen to specifically have Protection from Black (Chameleon Colossus, Karmic Guide, Mirran Crusader, Soltari Monk). I didn't like the uninteractive games that were just auto-losses for someone just because the wrong color was open in their seat, so I cut every creature with protection from a specific color a while ago making exceptions for Karmic Guide and Sphinx of the Steel Wind. Phantom Centaur's a cool enough creature that I may give it a shot of WW doesn't work out.
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Its been a 5/5 everytime ive seen it cast in my cube.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
While it's definitely slower to get rolling with (hence it's only been mention in an MP/EDH context so far), if you get your token production online, it is capable of obliterating artifact- and/or enchantment-heavy decks. Works the turn it comes into play, an Elf for tribal purposes... it's not bad at all if you have the time and space. So I guess the question is whether green token production has become good enough in the last couple of years for this guy to even rate a mention in 1vs1 cubes, or whether it remains too slow (which I'd imagine it does, but it's at least worth thinking about in here).
For the record, my current 4-drop section is Nullmage Shepherd / Wickerbough Elder / Oracle of Mul Daya / Eidolon of Blossoms / Elvish Piper. I am actively trying to lay hands on Thrun, though, and will likely drop the Piper to get him in.
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FWIW, my current selection (not power focused) includes the following:
Blastoderm - big hard to deal with threat
Oracle of Mul Daya - top of library/landfall support
Cytoplast Root-kin - +1/+1 counter support
Briarhorn - best combat trick in green
Surrak, The Hunt Caller - fires support in green
Vengevine - graveyard shenanigans
Eidolon of Blossoms - enchantress
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It's pretty bad without explicit +1/+1 counter support, especially in rare lists. Without that, it's just a 4/4 for 4 with a useless activated ability (in a color that can give you a 6/6 vigilant trampler instead for the same cost). If you make a deck with a lot of +1/+1 counter support though, he boosts other guys and makes combat tricky since he can steal counters from other creatures to pump himself. He can also randomly make undying dudes infinite (though I don't think I've ever seen that actually happen).
He's not going to work in the vast majority of rare lists though. There's a reason he got demoted from a rare to an uncommon.
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I am currently running Iwamori of the Open Fist Polukranos, World Eater and Woodland Wanderer, I'm looking to add a fourth and leaning towards Surrak, the hunt caller (I like the hasty 5 power beats) or Thrun, the last troll (If i can get a cheap one somwhere). What would people suggest? (Ignoring Phantom Centaur and chameleon colossus as I'm avoiding protection.)
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