Nissa, Worldwaker by a long shot. Can untap with 4 mana compared to 1 the turn it comes down. Also produces 4/4's with trample, vs. 3/3's with no evasion.
This was my original opinion. After some play in both my cube and the online cube, I believe it is Nissa, Who Shakes the World by a large margin. Here are the intuitive differences between the cards:
1 - 2 mana vs 4 mana on turn 5
2 - 3/3 vigilance vs 4/4 trample
At first glance, it looks like Nissa, Worldwaker is just a better card, but when you dig deeper it's not so clear.
1 - If it's not specifically on turn 5, the mana generation is comparable ... AND Nissa, Who Shakes the World makes a creature.
2 - Nissa, Who Shakes the World creates threats that also protect her immediately. Untapping the land the turn she comes into play alongside the vigilance makes it easy to protect her. I drastically underestimated the power of having two creatures AND the extra mana the turn you untap. Which leads me to my final point
3 - 6 loyalty is WAY MORE than 4. On your five-mana walker, the probability of untapping with Nissa, Who Shakes the World is much much higher than Nissa, Worldwaker. For both loyalty and the reason I said above. The immediate rate of mana and creature might be slightly lower, but the overall play pattern I find to be more potent and the value over time goes to Nissa, Who Shakes the World since she basically gets to do both Nissa, Worldwaker's +1s every turn.
I am trying to find room for Cultivate and Kodama's reach in my 540 powered cube (cubetutor: https://www.cubetutor.com/viewcurve/99666). I think I could cut Nissa, Worldwaker for one rather than run both that AND Nissa, Who Shakes the World. But I don't know what else I'd cut from Green's small non-creature section:
0-1 CMC (5)
Gaea's Cradle
Mox Emerald
Treetop Village
Rancor
Worldly Tutor
2 CMC (7)
Channel
Life from the Loam
Oath of Druids
Once Upon a Time
Regrowth
Survival of the Fittest
Sylvan Library
3 CMC (1)
Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4 CMC (4)
Eureka
Garruk Relentless
Garruk Wildspeaker
Natural Order
5 CMC (3)
Nissa, Who Shakes the World
Nissa, Worldwaker
Plow Under
6 CMC (2)
Green Sun's Zenith
Selvala's Stampede
7+ CMC (2)
Finale of Devastation
Tooth and Nail
Maybe I should look into cutting a creature for it? It just doesn't seem better than Yavimaya Elder or Sakura-Tribe Elder or anything like that...
I'd likely cut one of the 5cc Nissa's and just run Cultivate. I'm not sure you need two of that kind of spell at 540. I don't think I'd cut any of your creatures for it.
Thanks for the response - that was something that occurred to me but felt wrong some how. Maybe I will just try that - although I will probably choose to run the original Kodama's Reach instead of Cultivate.
Thanks for the response - that was something that occurred to me but felt wrong some how. Maybe I will just try that - although I will probably choose to run the original Kodama's Reach instead of Cultivate.
If you run Through the Breach, then Kodama's Reach wins by a hair. Even then, it's the original and has a much better set symbol.
How does [[Icy Manipulator]] stack up in the current cube meta? What about [[Crystal Shard]]/[[Erratic Portal]]? I feel like they've been a little too slow to shine at their 3/4 mana investments for nothing the turn they are played. Would you cut Icy or the Portal for [[Lightning Greaves]]? I've been trying to get the greaves back in to give the sneak/show/reanimate combos a bit more support.
I do not run [[Scroll Rack]] either, but I do run [[Treasure Map]]. Is that correct?
Icy is okay, it's a niche answer to some powerful cards and it has some cool interactions in the cube still.
I like Shard a lot and still have success with Portal too. They're not generic goodstuff cards that just go into any deck, but in a deck looking to bounce and replay ETB creatures, they can be strong performers. In addition to saving threats from removal, taxing the opponent and randomly getting to bounce your opponent's stuff too.
I like all 3 of those cards more than Lightning Greaves, personally.
The more I think about it, the more I think the cut for Lightning Greaves should be one of the Rainbow Lands. I did the math again, and as of Fabled Passage from Eldraine, I am running 11 rainbow lands on top of the 5 per guild for a total of 61/540 or ~11.3% of the cube. That seems like it is a touch on the high side. How do people rank the following 11 rainbow lands? I'll give my attempt at a ranking as well (my list is running Crucible of Worlds and Ramunap Excavator:
Mana Confluence
City of Brass
Reflecting Pool
Gemstone Mine
Prismatic Vista
Fabled Passage
Undiscovered Paradise
Grand Coliseum
Ash Barrens
Terramorphic Expanse & Evolving Wilds
If the bottom of this list is correct it means I should maybe cut one of the evolving wilds... which is just crazy to me since they are such good cards, but these last few months have given us some very good rainbow lands, so maybe that is right.
Cheers! Thanks for the insight. We've had a lot of success with paradise being untapped and providing any color for CC heavy decks (instead of being locked into one with terramorphic/evolving wilds), but we've also not been cubing for nearly as long and I will happily defer to your judgement. Thanks for helping me get it sorted out.
Borrower is the better card at face value, but Man-o'-War is more abusable. So if you're playing the card for ETB trigger manipulation, the jellyfish is likely better, otherwise, play the Borrower.
I wouldn't cut Initiate for Sovereign as they operate in the same aggro type deck and are both solid. I'd cut Seeker of the Way or Containment Priest for the Sovereign.
I am on board with the procession cut but if you would like an alternative, kick out the ordinary pony. It's just ordinary.
I think Seeker is the correct cut, but I just added it to up my Watermarket support, so I don't want to cut it yet for a non-watermarked card. Containment Priset has been great against Monoblack, which I think is one of the better performing archetypes in my cube, and also gets to hate out Cheaty Strategies, so I want to keep that as well.
Pony has been good for the Blink/Splinter Twin cross pollination archetypes. Kiki/Clocknapper/Resto Angel/Pony make up the pillars, and blink, twin, and blinktwin all perform well, so I don't want to cut Pony. Twin is one of the reasons I want to add Sovereign/Big Thalia, but I don't want to cut support for hate - rather just add hate while leaving support.
I'll go with keep Initiate, cut Procession, add Big Thalia. I used to have Sovereign, but cut it because it had trouble surviving combat, so I think this does sound like a good change.
edit: after making the change, I found out Big Thalia has a watermark version, so that's very nice that I can up Watermarket support here.
I think Seeker is the correct cut, but I just added it to up my Watermarket support, so I don't want to cut it yet for a non-watermarked card. Containment Priset has been great against Monoblack, which I think is one of the better performing archetypes in my cube, and also gets to hate out Cheaty Strategies, so I want to keep that as well.
Pony has been good for the Blink/Splinter Twin cross pollination archetypes. Kiki/Clocknapper/Resto Angel/Pony make up the pillars, and blink, twin, and blinktwin all perform well, so I don't want to cut Pony. Twin is one of the reasons I want to add Sovereign/Big Thalia, but I don't want to cut support for hate - rather just add hate while leaving support.
I'll go with keep Initiate, cut Procession, add Big Thalia. I used to have Sovereign, but cut it because it had trouble surviving combat, so I think this does sound like a good change.
edit: after making the change, I found out Big Thalia has a watermark version, so that's very nice that I can up Watermarket support here.
Haven't tried Watermarket personally but I would have assumed that it's best use was with watermarked things that cost at least CC on their own.
Just picked up a Eureka, so I'm looking to cut a card, but not quite sure which. Any suggestions from my list?
Currently looking at Selvala's Stampede, but it's a very pretty foily one, and is the kind of card that would go in the same deck, so I'm not sure I want to cut it.
They left out the part where Yawgmoth is resurrected,but has been cleansed as Yawgmoth the Redeemed,and now must awaken Chromium so that Karn can fuse with him and create what can only be known as : the ultimate taco.
This was my original opinion. After some play in both my cube and the online cube, I believe it is Nissa, Who Shakes the World by a large margin. Here are the intuitive differences between the cards:
1 - 2 mana vs 4 mana on turn 5
2 - 3/3 vigilance vs 4/4 trample
At first glance, it looks like Nissa, Worldwaker is just a better card, but when you dig deeper it's not so clear.
1 - If it's not specifically on turn 5, the mana generation is comparable ... AND Nissa, Who Shakes the World makes a creature.
2 - Nissa, Who Shakes the World creates threats that also protect her immediately. Untapping the land the turn she comes into play alongside the vigilance makes it easy to protect her. I drastically underestimated the power of having two creatures AND the extra mana the turn you untap. Which leads me to my final point
3 - 6 loyalty is WAY MORE than 4. On your five-mana walker, the probability of untapping with Nissa, Who Shakes the World is much much higher than Nissa, Worldwaker. For both loyalty and the reason I said above. The immediate rate of mana and creature might be slightly lower, but the overall play pattern I find to be more potent and the value over time goes to Nissa, Who Shakes the World since she basically gets to do both Nissa, Worldwaker's +1s every turn.
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0-1 CMC (5)
Gaea's Cradle
Mox Emerald
Treetop Village
Rancor
Worldly Tutor
2 CMC (7)
Channel
Life from the Loam
Oath of Druids
Once Upon a Time
Regrowth
Survival of the Fittest
Sylvan Library
3 CMC (1)
Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4 CMC (4)
Eureka
Garruk Relentless
Garruk Wildspeaker
Natural Order
5 CMC (3)
Nissa, Who Shakes the World
Nissa, Worldwaker
Plow Under
6 CMC (2)
Green Sun's Zenith
Selvala's Stampede
7+ CMC (2)
Finale of Devastation
Tooth and Nail
Maybe I should look into cutting a creature for it? It just doesn't seem better than Yavimaya Elder or Sakura-Tribe Elder or anything like that...
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Cheers,
rant
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Cheers,
rant
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If you run Through the Breach, then Kodama's Reach wins by a hair. Even then, it's the original and has a much better set symbol.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
I do not run [[Scroll Rack]] either, but I do run [[Treasure Map]]. Is that correct?
My 36+ Commander Decks: TAPPEDOUT
I like Shard a lot and still have success with Portal too. They're not generic goodstuff cards that just go into any deck, but in a deck looking to bounce and replay ETB creatures, they can be strong performers. In addition to saving threats from removal, taxing the opponent and randomly getting to bounce your opponent's stuff too.
I like all 3 of those cards more than Lightning Greaves, personally.
And I like Map more than Rack.
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Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
My 36+ Commander Decks: TAPPEDOUT
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Glory-bound Initiate for Imposing Sovereign
or
Spectral Procession for Big Thalia
Which cut should I make? Or neither or both?
[180 classic cube]
I am on board with the procession cut but if you would like an alternative, kick out the ordinary pony. It's just ordinary.
Pony has been good for the Blink/Splinter Twin cross pollination archetypes. Kiki/Clocknapper/Resto Angel/Pony make up the pillars, and blink, twin, and blinktwin all perform well, so I don't want to cut Pony. Twin is one of the reasons I want to add Sovereign/Big Thalia, but I don't want to cut support for hate - rather just add hate while leaving support.
I'll go with keep Initiate, cut Procession, add Big Thalia. I used to have Sovereign, but cut it because it had trouble surviving combat, so I think this does sound like a good change.
edit: after making the change, I found out Big Thalia has a watermark version, so that's very nice that I can up Watermarket support here.
[180 classic cube]
Haven't tried Watermarket personally but I would have assumed that it's best use was with watermarked things that cost at least CC on their own.
Its a recent addition for me and still in testing. But yeah, for an archetype like white weenie, the ideal would be something like
Plains, Isamaru -> Watermarket, Blade Splicer -> Plains, Hero of Bladehold
But I think it's important having the option to also go something like
Plains, Isamaru -> Watermarket, Seeker of the Way -> draw a plains, Hero of Bladehold
[180 classic cube]
I don't think this specific corner case is worth playing a sub-optimal card like Seeker
I'd rank my top 5 something like this:
1. Glen Elendra Archmage
2. Urza, Lord High Artificer
3. Venser, Shaper Savant
4. Sower of Temptation
5. Whirler Rogue
Urza could be number 1. He's been very impressive, but I haven't seen him in action enough times to say for sure.
Cheers,
rant
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I was particularly interested in the first 3, is Urza that good even in unpowered cubes?
Currently looking at Selvala's Stampede, but it's a very pretty foily one, and is the kind of card that would go in the same deck, so I'm not sure I want to cut it.
Not sure what I'd cut though. Maybe something like the Hydra? I love the flexibility on that card, but Eureka is gas.
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