I’m trying to decide between cutting arbor elf and avacyn’s pilgrim. (I know it’s almost certainly correct to run both, but I’ve recently added green aggro, birthing pod support, and persist combo to my unpowered 540 and cuts have to come from somewhere. I’ll probably wind up re-adding the mana dork I cut here at a later point after testing the changes I’ve made and seeing which cards underperform.)
I don’t own the OG dual lands, but do run fetches, shocks, and cipt cycling duals. My current inclination is that this lack of duals will make the pilgrim better than arbor elf, but I could see an argument either way. Another option would be to cut one of the 2-CMC mana dorks (wall or caryatid) but that seems less right as they serve slightly different functions. I’m currently running all the commonly used 1-CMC dorks other than elves of deep shadow, boreal druid, and gilded goose.
Sorry for all the questions, but I have some ground to cover ;-).
As other's have given pretty good rankings I would consider to the top few picks are all pretty close to each other, and so I would consider what your overall white curve looks like. I like both 4 mana elspeth's and Gideon's a lot- but I don't think on a smallish cube limited to 2 PWers, I want both to be the same CMC when they are all really good cards.
What would be your best "4th land" in each guild? of course fetch/shock/dual are the unquestioned top 3, but what's your 4th? Unfortunately the Horizon land cycle remains unfinished...
WU - Celestial Colonnade
UB - Creeping Tar Pit
BR - Sulfurous Springs or Blackcleave Cliffs
RG - Karplusan Forest or Raging Ravine
GW - Horizon Canopy
WB - Silent Clearing
BG - Nurturing Peatland
GU - Waterlogged Grove
UR - Fiery Islet
RW - Sunbaked Canyon
Does this look roughly reasonable? Which would you choose in BR or RG?
Horizon lands where available, Manlands in the other 4.
The only thing I'd be willing to give up zero opportunity cost threats for is zero opportunity cost card draw. Beyond untapped fetches and fetchable untapped duals, I think those two abilities are the most powerful attributes you can strap to fixing.
Horizon lands where available, Manlands in the other 4.
The only thing I'd be willing to give up zero opportunity cost threats for is zero opportunity cost card draw. Beyond untapped fetches and fetchable untapped duals, I think those two abilities are the most powerful attributes you can strap to fixing.
This exactly. For me it's Horizon Lands > Manlands > Fast Lands/Pain Lands.
Interesting choices. From my experience, the Swords have a quite different role than Lightning Greaves. The Swords transform every insignificant creature in a dangerous threat, so they function as "steroids". Lightning Greaves however are meant to be attached to creatures that are serious threats on their own, making them both very resilient due to shroud and unpredictable due to haste.
Lightning Greaves are more versatile than the Swords and can see play in more Decks. I might pick up Greaves in a Tinker, Reanimator or Oath Deck, but also in random midrange decks.
Swords shine the brightest in Aggro Decks, but I don't think they are reasonable cards in most Decks where Lightning Greaves are useful.
On the other hand, this means that Swords are more likely to be available to the Aggro-drafters, which is nice.
From those three cards, I would cut Sword of War and Peace for sure. The second card would depend on whether I felt like Aggro needed a good equipment more than finishers from other decks the protection.
Definitely agree that War and Peace is one of the cuts. Greaves vs. Truth and Justice is kind of tough. I've never played with Truth and Justice, but since you're adding in Persist combo, I'm tempted to say keep Truth and Justice because Proliferate sounds kind of spicy with Good-Fortune Unicorn/Grumgully, the Generous/Rhythm of the Wild outside of the persist combo, and the sword can also kind of substitute for one of those for more of a value Persist combo rather than an outright win Persist combo. I don't know if that's actually any good though, since I haven't tried it.
Zealot. It's a much better topdeck, works better as sacrifice fodder or with Recurring Nightmare and is playable in basically all black decks.
I prefer Blast's instant speed here by quite a bit. I am no longer playing Seal but am satisfied with Blast. In general I think the Shock variants are better than they appear in this format.
I prefer Force of Negation over Negate (and also run Force of Negation and not Negate). Being sometimes-free and exiling can both be relevant and they're worth the extra pip (mostly for the freecast).
Cool, thanks. I was running Negate for being a splashable 2cmc counterspell, but I was really impressed by Force of Negation when playing the Dekkaru Cube this week, which had me considering the swap. Sounds like the consensus agrees.
Green doesn't have many impressive army in a can cards below 6 mana, so I like Deranged Hermit (and his Modern Masters counterpart) very much. But Thragtusk is that easily splashable monster of a card. I am so conflicted!
I know that I'm in the minority, but I haven't played Thragtusk in a long time. It's a solid card but I'm not thrilled by it. I prefer the various army-in-a-can variants, so I play both Hermits and Biogenic Ooze, and round my 5s out with Titania (pet card that is probably the actual card I'd consider is "replacing" Thragtusk) and Acidic Slime.
Green doesn't have many impressive army in a can cards below 6 mana, so I like Deranged Hermit (and his Modern Masters counterpart) very much. But Thragtusk is that easily splashable monster of a card. I am so conflicted!
I know that I'm in the minority, but I haven't played Thragtusk in a long time. It's a solid card but I'm not thrilled by it. I prefer the various army-in-a-can variants, so I play both Hermits and Biogenic Ooze, and round my 5s out with Titania (pet card that is probably the actual card I'd consider is "replacing" Thragtusk) and Acidic Slime.
pre-Soulherder and pre-Thassa, I was also lower on Thragtusk than most. Those two have helped bump my respect for it. Still, Hermit > Thragtusk for me.
That's reasonable. If I was looking to cut Titania for a draft or two, I'd still probably play Verdurous Gearhulk over it, but Thragtusk is definitely still good.
Not as good as Hermit if you have to pick one, though.
I don’t own the OG dual lands, but do run fetches, shocks, and cipt cycling duals. My current inclination is that this lack of duals will make the pilgrim better than arbor elf, but I could see an argument either way. Another option would be to cut one of the 2-CMC mana dorks (wall or caryatid) but that seems less right as they serve slightly different functions. I’m currently running all the commonly used 1-CMC dorks other than elves of deep shadow, boreal druid, and gilded goose.
Cheers,
rant
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As other's have given pretty good rankings I would consider to the top few picks are all pretty close to each other, and so I would consider what your overall white curve looks like. I like both 4 mana elspeth's and Gideon's a lot- but I don't think on a smallish cube limited to 2 PWers, I want both to be the same CMC when they are all really good cards.
WU - Celestial Colonnade
UB - Creeping Tar Pit
BR - Sulfurous Springs or Blackcleave Cliffs
RG - Karplusan Forest or Raging Ravine
GW - Horizon Canopy
WB - Silent Clearing
BG - Nurturing Peatland
GU - Waterlogged Grove
UR - Fiery Islet
RW - Sunbaked Canyon
Does this look roughly reasonable? Which would you choose in BR or RG?
The only thing I'd be willing to give up zero opportunity cost threats for is zero opportunity cost card draw. Beyond untapped fetches and fetchable untapped duals, I think those two abilities are the most powerful attributes you can strap to fixing.
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This exactly. For me it's Horizon Lands > Manlands > Fast Lands/Pain Lands.
Cheers,
rant
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Sword of War and Peace
Sword of Truth and Justice
Lightning Greaves
Cheers,
rant
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Interesting choices. From my experience, the Swords have a quite different role than Lightning Greaves. The Swords transform every insignificant creature in a dangerous threat, so they function as "steroids". Lightning Greaves however are meant to be attached to creatures that are serious threats on their own, making them both very resilient due to shroud and unpredictable due to haste.
Lightning Greaves are more versatile than the Swords and can see play in more Decks. I might pick up Greaves in a Tinker, Reanimator or Oath Deck, but also in random midrange decks.
Swords shine the brightest in Aggro Decks, but I don't think they are reasonable cards in most Decks where Lightning Greaves are useful.
On the other hand, this means that Swords are more likely to be available to the Aggro-drafters, which is nice.
From those three cards, I would cut Sword of War and Peace for sure. The second card would depend on whether I felt like Aggro needed a good equipment more than finishers from other decks the protection.
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2 - Galvanic Blast vs Seal of Fire ?
Zealot. It's a much better topdeck, works better as sacrifice fodder or with Recurring Nightmare and is playable in basically all black decks.
I prefer Blast's instant speed here by quite a bit. I am no longer playing Seal but am satisfied with Blast. In general I think the Shock variants are better than they appear in this format.
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I'm a fan of negate, and force of negation is >> negate.
In a high powered environment , force of negation has proven itself as high tier counter spell...
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Green doesn't have many impressive army in a can cards below 6 mana, so I like Deranged Hermit (and his Modern Masters counterpart) very much. But Thragtusk is that easily splashable monster of a card. I am so conflicted!
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pre-Soulherder and pre-Thassa, I was also lower on Thragtusk than most. Those two have helped bump my respect for it. Still, Hermit > Thragtusk for me.
[180 classic cube]
Not as good as Hermit if you have to pick one, though.
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