Feel like this is a classic Baneslayer vs. Mulldrifter matchup only maybe even a stronger example of this paradigm than the cards that have come to represent it because these two cards share a cost and one is guaranteed up-front value (Naturalize+) and then a good defensive body. The other is no up-front value, but asks "do you have it" to your opponent, much like BSA. Personally, I think BSA style creatures play a major role in cube and I lean towards the Gargaroth, but I'm curious to hear your takes.
Slime. Gargaroth is no joke, but it's in a really competitive green slot. We have the similar Questing Beast in a less competitive green slot, so I don't see the need for Gargaroth in average-sized cubes.
I agree that Green five drops are a dense competitive slot -- largely for lack of good green 6 drops and also I think because 5CC is a sweet spot for any green ramp deck that is hitting its ramp spells on curve for the first two turns. The other two "Baneslayers" I run in this slot are Kalonian Hydra and Verdurous Gearhulk -- the latter of which isn't necessarily a BSA. I probably could make Hydra the cut as well, but I don't know that Slime has enough high value targets to merit its continued inclusion in my cube. Similarly, Stoneforge Mystic was cut from my cube for lack of targets.
Couple other things I am pondering is cutting Dryad Militant. Green is a ramp color and white has better 2/1's and it definitely shouldn't take up a guild slot.
Also wondering how critical the redundancy is with Armageddon and Ravages of War, I currently run Catastrophe instead both for value and because I like the flexibility of it. I don't think Armageddon is too unfair, but I'm not sure I want to double up on it, especially at $100.00 for the cheapest version (I don't proxy).
I was literally just talking to someone yesterday about how I thought Ravages of War was among the most important cube functional reprints we have. So naturally, I would disagree with the assessment that it's not worth doubling up on. I think it's the 2nd most important functional reprint available to cube managers, behind only Burning of Xinye.
I could cut Kalonian Hydra before Acidic Slime, especially if you're cutting it for Gargaroth.
I was literally just talking to someone yesterday about how I thought Ravages of War was among the most important cube functional reprints we have. So naturally, I would disagree with the assessment that it's not worth doubling up on. I think it's the 2nd most important functional reprint available to cube managers, behind only Burning of Xinye.
I could cut Kalonian Hydra before Acidic Slime, especially if you're cutting it for Gargaroth.
Agree on all counts. The 2 "Geddon" are extremely powerful and just win you the game when you are ahead on board. in in larger cubes, if you aren't drafting to max capacity, you need to be sure its in the mix. Run both. Also I personally love slime and it's utility it offers in green. Being able to GSZ effect it in to deal with a problem effect is nice. Also its a great Birthing Pod hit as it can turn into your better 6 drops. Gargaroth has impressed me and I run it and slime together.
Yeah Geddon goes in a completely different deck type than Catastrophe (which will be cast for its wrath mode most of the time and is used by control decks, while geddon and ravages go in aggro generally), and I think geddon and ravages are both much better.
I also have never gotten around to buying a ravages or making a good proxy (I will proxy but we did transparencies over blank foils and the person who did those moved away, so I'd need to learn, and I won't do paper proxies cause it looks bad), but I can't believe it hasn't gotten printed in a supplemental product at some point. Geddon is a $5 rare. One reprint of ravages would drop it's price there too, and it's not on the reserve list. There's no reason for it to be a $100 card.
It's definitely one of the oddball P3K cards that would benefit from a reprint, and I absolutely agree that it serves an extremely important role in Cube but it's unfortunate that it has a high scarcity-based price tag that could be easily fixed.
I was expecting it to show up in Double Masters, frankly.
Re: Ajani v Nahiri, they're cards that go in very different decks, but in a more traditional, smaller cube, Ajani is probably going to perform better since he'll be a top-end card for aggro while Nahiri will want to be more combo oriented, which may not find itself too heavily in white. I'd add Ajani first if I only had room for one.
Re: Ajani v Nahiri, they're cards that go in very different decks, but in a more traditional, smaller cube, Ajani is probably going to perform better since he'll be a top-end card for aggro while Nahiri will want to be more combo oriented, which may not find itself too heavily in white. I'd add Ajani first if I only had room for one.
Essentially agree, although instead of guilded goose I have avacyn's pilgrim as my last mana dork. Also, if you run stuff like wild growth or utopia sprawl arbor elf moves up.
Ajani goes in a lot more decks than Nahiri and is a better card IMO.
Despite the vulnerability of removal in response to level up and no color fixing, getting to 5 mana on turn 3, or 6 mana on turn 3 if paired with another dork on turn 2, puts it above everything else. I also like exalted on Hierarch slightly more than fixing for Red and Black. All 3 are fantastic, though, and would include them at any sized cube.
Gilded Goose is just so amazing. It has 2 toughness, produces artifacts for Tinker, Goblin Welder, Braids, Cabal Minion, has evasion and can thus be equipped with swords effectively and the food can be sacrificed for life. Absolutely amazing card!
Contempt, Extinction unless your cube has a lot of decks that will both run Extinction and get value out of the yard (as I think the sorts of decks that run 4 mana removal spells are much more likely to struggle against aggro where the 2 life is great).
Feel like this is a classic Baneslayer vs. Mulldrifter matchup only maybe even a stronger example of this paradigm than the cards that have come to represent it because these two cards share a cost and one is guaranteed up-front value (Naturalize+) and then a good defensive body. The other is no up-front value, but asks "do you have it" to your opponent, much like BSA. Personally, I think BSA style creatures play a major role in cube and I lean towards the Gargaroth, but I'm curious to hear your takes.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Couple other things I am pondering is cutting Dryad Militant. Green is a ramp color and white has better 2/1's and it definitely shouldn't take up a guild slot.
Also wondering how critical the redundancy is with Armageddon and Ravages of War, I currently run Catastrophe instead both for value and because I like the flexibility of it. I don't think Armageddon is too unfair, but I'm not sure I want to double up on it, especially at $100.00 for the cheapest version (I don't proxy).
I could cut Kalonian Hydra before Acidic Slime, especially if you're cutting it for Gargaroth.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Agree on all counts. The 2 "Geddon" are extremely powerful and just win you the game when you are ahead on board. in in larger cubes, if you aren't drafting to max capacity, you need to be sure its in the mix. Run both. Also I personally love slime and it's utility it offers in green. Being able to GSZ effect it in to deal with a problem effect is nice. Also its a great Birthing Pod hit as it can turn into your better 6 drops. Gargaroth has impressed me and I run it and slime together.
I also have never gotten around to buying a ravages or making a good proxy (I will proxy but we did transparencies over blank foils and the person who did those moved away, so I'd need to learn, and I won't do paper proxies cause it looks bad), but I can't believe it hasn't gotten printed in a supplemental product at some point. Geddon is a $5 rare. One reprint of ravages would drop it's price there too, and it's not on the reserve list. There's no reason for it to be a $100 card.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
I was expecting it to show up in Double Masters, frankly.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Also:
ajani vengeant vs. nahiri, the harbinger
Cube list for reference: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/5ed4b676d44a3c102e28f7f7
Birds of Paradise > Joraga Treespeaker > Noble Hierarch > Llanowar Elves=Elvish Mystic=Fyndhorn Elves > Gilded Goose > Arbor Elf, except that I personally prioritize Gilded Goose before the third of the redundant Elf trio (it just felt weird to arbitrarily assign one of the three as the "worse" one.
Re: Ajani v Nahiri, they're cards that go in very different decks, but in a more traditional, smaller cube, Ajani is probably going to perform better since he'll be a top-end card for aggro while Nahiri will want to be more combo oriented, which may not find itself too heavily in white. I'd add Ajani first if I only had room for one.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Essentially agree, although instead of guilded goose I have avacyn's pilgrim as my last mana dork. Also, if you run stuff like wild growth or utopia sprawl arbor elf moves up.
Ajani goes in a lot more decks than Nahiri and is a better card IMO.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Treespeaker > Hierarch > BoP
Despite the vulnerability of removal in response to level up and no color fixing, getting to 5 mana on turn 3, or 6 mana on turn 3 if paired with another dork on turn 2, puts it above everything else. I also like exalted on Hierarch slightly more than fixing for Red and Black. All 3 are fantastic, though, and would include them at any sized cube.
[180 classic cube]
Birds of Paradise >= Gilded Goose = Joraga Treespeaker > Noble Hierarch
Gilded Goose is just so amazing. It has 2 toughness, produces artifacts for Tinker, Goblin Welder, Braids, Cabal Minion, has evasion and can thus be equipped with swords effectively and the food can be sacrificed for life. Absolutely amazing card!
This, but at 465 Powered, I don't run Journey and am about to cut Winds.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
2 - Harmonious Archon vs Angel of Serenity ?
3 - Accorder Paladin vs Tithe Taker ?
2 - Angel > Archon.
3 - Paladin > Taker.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
cut 1: Dauntless Bodyguard, Isamaru, Hound of Konda, Frontier Explorer
[180 classic cube]
IMO, Dauntless Bodyguard = Isamaru, Hound of Konda > Frontier Explorer
1 - Verge Rangers vs Kinjalli's Sunwing vs Mirran Crusader ? What order ?
2 - Den Protector vs Sylvan Advocate vs Tarmogoyf ? What order ? (I don't run Green Aggro)
3 - Agent of Treachery vs Frost Titan vs Aetherling ? What order ?
4 - Vraska's Contempt vs Eat to Extinction ?
crusader, sunwing, rangers
advocate followed by the other 2
Frost Titan followed by the other 2
eat, contempt
[180 classic cube]
Crusader, sunwing, rangers
Advocate, protector, goyf
Aetherling, titan, agent
Contempt, Extinction unless your cube has a lot of decks that will both run Extinction and get value out of the yard (as I think the sorts of decks that run 4 mana removal spells are much more likely to struggle against aggro where the 2 life is great).
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
1 - Crusader > Sunwing ≥ Rangers
2 - Tarmogoyf ≥ Protector >> Advocate
3 - Aetherling >>> Frosty = Agent
4 - Eat ≥ Contempt
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963