I don't think jar jar is that great at keeping you alive. He blocks some stuff aetherling doesn't, but aetherling blocks dudes jar jar can't as well. And while you're using jar jar to block you're not closing out the game, which just gives your opponent more time to kill you.
Wait, what creatures can Aetherling block that Sphinx cannot?
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Say you play a wrath, your opponent plays a new threat and attacks you to 5. Now you play AEtherling and keep U open to save it from removal. You are now dead to ...Thundermaw Hellkite...
Just to be fair, Thundermaw would kill you in this situation regardless of the blue finisher you are running (at least off the top of my head). He will tap Jwar Jwar, and smash. Same with Kiega. Actually the only finisher that I can think of that would allow you to live would be Morphling by chump blocking.
Edit: Meloku would also save you, as mentioned by the Blue Finisher MCD.
The thing about JJ defending is that it's not attacking if it do that. This guy can attack AND defend at the same time. That's worth it for me over flying.
This is all true and the reason why many in this thread are excited to play with AEtherling. Others, like me for example, are a bit more skeptical. The reason is this:
Consider a game where you play dedicated control. You develop your mana and in the process you take a couple of hits. Say you play a wrath, your opponent plays a new threat and attacks you to 5. Now you play AEtherling and keep U open to save it from removal. You are now dead to Zealous Conscripts, Chandra's Phoenix + Reckless Charge, Thundermaw Hellkite, haste creature + removal spell or removal spell + burn spell.
In other words, the value of AEtherling vs. Sphinx of Jwar Isle for example depends on whether closing out games or staying alive long enough are the more pressing matter for your typical dedicated control deck. I know for us it often is the latter, and there AEtherling is not as good as other options.
So basically what your saying is, is that if red get's you down to low life and you're control... you might be in a tight spot if you pull Aetherling?
Not gonna lie, I'm not completely sold on Aetherling either, but... I'm always scared when I have 5 life and I'm against red. Just saying :S.
Aethering can block all creature with power greater than 4 or deathtouch while staying alive as long as they don't have flying. I much prefer that if I want to stays alive. It can also attack and block at the same time.
Yes, he is able to block once and then die. Which is not a good use of six mana and leaves you in the same place you were before.
Are you making a point here besides gotcha-ing me on semantics? I know you know what I meant, so I'm confused about why you're hanging onto this with such a tight grip. Is it furthering the discussion in some way I'm not seeing?
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Yes, he is able to block once and then die. Which is not a good use of six mana and leaves you in the same place you were before.
Are you making a point here besides gotcha-ing me on semantics? I know you know what I meant, so I'm confused about why you're hanging onto this with such a right grip. Is it furthering the discussion in some way I'm not seeing?
I don't think gotcha-ing you is the point here at all. It actually is about the blocking, because even though it may not be the best play ever to play a six mana blocker that just dies blocking, at least it can buy an additional turn in situations where AEtherling cannot do that. This is something to keep in mind when discussing the pros and cons of various blue finishers, because yes, AEtherling will get the job done faster in many cases and it can attack and block in the same turn sequence, but it simply can't block fliers and it is not a reliable blocker in a tight spot (because if you have to blink it in response to removal, it will not be around to block).
I think we have established that AEtherling is a good offensive creature with many nice interactions. It does have some shortcomings in stabilizing the board in a tight spot though.
I assume the idea was that you can block any creature regardless of its size and just exile Ætherling afterwards.
I thought so too.
But for me, what kills either creature when they're blocking isn't really important. The ability to attack and block in the same round is what's important. Sphinx is a better blocker when it's not attacking. But I don't care about how either creature functions if all it's doing is blocking.
It actually is about the blocking, because even though it may not be the best play ever to play a six mana blocker that just dies blocking, at least it can buy an additional turn in situations where AEtherling cannot do that.
Yes, this point was made earlier. My response was that while aetherling can't block fliers, it can block ground guys forever where sphinx can't. I think they both have pros and cons defensively and on paper aetherling looks better to me.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
So this is really a 7-drop if you don't want it to be an easy-to-kill tempo sink. 7-drops have to be pretty darn good to be cubeable. This card provides zero "value" for 7 mana, as in you get no additional cards, spells, or permanents out of it, and you don't negatively affect your opponent's board or hand. It's just an annoying yet flexible creature for a very large amount of mana.
Honestly I think this is one of the biggest whiffs I have seen so far in the Cube community here. You guys are usually spot on, but this card is so... Mediocre... I would put this on the same level as something like Palinchron, and I would probably Cube Palinchron before this.
Honestly I think this is one of the biggest whiffs I have seen so far in the Cube community here. You guys are usually spot on, but this card is so... Mediocre... I would put this on the same level as something like Palinchron, and I would probably Cube Palinchron before this.
It's still way too early in the game to call it one of the biggest whiffs, come back to this in 3 months and see if you've changed your mind.
So this is really a 7-drop if you don't want it to be an easy-to-kill tempo sink. 7-drops have to be pretty darn good to be cubeable. This card provides zero "value" for 7 mana, as in you get no additional cards, spells, or permanents out of it, and you don't negatively affect your opponent's board or hand. It's just an annoying yet flexible creature for a very large amount of mana.
Honestly I think this is one of the biggest whiffs I have seen so far in the Cube community here. You guys are usually spot on, but this card is so... Mediocre... I would put this on the same level as something like Palinchron, and I would probably Cube Palinchron before this.
It is certainly possible that a near impossible to kill, hard hitting, unblockable seven drop that provides no immediate value is mediocre. Considering a decent amount of cubes were already running Sphinx of Jwar Isle, I'm not so sure you are right.
The card has been simply terrific in testing. Played it twice in a classic Azorius control shell, and once in a Dimir shell, and it does exactly what I want it to do. I closes the game out quickly, provides me with a blocker while it's attacking, and it's nigh-impossible to kill. As a finisher for a pure control deck, there's nothing else in the cube I'd rather have right now. The lower your win condition count is, the higher his stock rises. He does the work of two-three big creatures while he's down, and your opponent simply cannot kill it. He's super mana hungry, but that doesn't matter, because I don't need to cast any more expensive cards after he's down. Loving this card in the cube so far.
Yeah, I agree, it has been stellar so far. Even just going "attack for 4, blink" has been pretty frequent. I know that there's only room for so many finishers in cube but I like it more than ones like Jwar Isle and Palinchron (besides, if saying that it provides no value unless cast for 7 mana, can't the same be said of Palinchron if using the "It just dies to <insert removal> argument?"
That, and the fact that Palinchron takes twice as long to kill them. I like Palinchron, and I cubed it for a long time. But Aetherling is simply playing much better than it ever did.
Oh yes, I agree that Palinchron suffers from the same issues, which is why I was making the comparison. It just seems like the most similar creature to compare it to. I despise Sphinx of Jwar Isle as well, so maybe I'm just weird.
and let us not forget those of us with blink archetypes!
The fact that you can block all day AND attack is killer. I had originally thought that he came into play at the next upkeep, and not end step. Boy did I do a backflip when I reread the card
Wait, what creatures can Aetherling block that Sphinx cannot?
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Just to be fair, Thundermaw would kill you in this situation regardless of the blue finisher you are running (at least off the top of my head). He will tap Jwar Jwar, and smash. Same with Kiega. Actually the only finisher that I can think of that would allow you to live would be Morphling by chump blocking.
Edit: Meloku would also save you, as mentioned by the Blue Finisher MCD.
It's more a card against decks that are slower.
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note that it can become a -91/100 if you have the mana, too.
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So basically what your saying is, is that if red get's you down to low life and you're control... you might be in a tight spot if you pull Aetherling?
Not gonna lie, I'm not completely sold on Aetherling either, but... I'm always scared when I have 5 life and I'm against red. Just saying :S.
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He's still blocking, though, right?
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Aethering can block all creature with power greater than 4 or deathtouch while staying alive as long as they don't have flying. I much prefer that if I want to stays alive. It can also attack and block at the same time.
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Yes, he is able to block once and then die. Which is not a good use of six mana and leaves you in the same place you were before.
Are you making a point here besides gotcha-ing me on semantics? I know you know what I meant, so I'm confused about why you're hanging onto this with such a tight grip. Is it furthering the discussion in some way I'm not seeing?
I think we have established that AEtherling is a good offensive creature with many nice interactions. It does have some shortcomings in stabilizing the board in a tight spot though.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
I thought so too.
But for me, what kills either creature when they're blocking isn't really important. The ability to attack and block in the same round is what's important. Sphinx is a better blocker when it's not attacking. But I don't care about how either creature functions if all it's doing is blocking.
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Yes, this point was made earlier. My response was that while aetherling can't block fliers, it can block ground guys forever where sphinx can't. I think they both have pros and cons defensively and on paper aetherling looks better to me.
Honestly I think this is one of the biggest whiffs I have seen so far in the Cube community here. You guys are usually spot on, but this card is so... Mediocre... I would put this on the same level as something like Palinchron, and I would probably Cube Palinchron before this.
It's still way too early in the game to call it one of the biggest whiffs, come back to this in 3 months and see if you've changed your mind.
It is certainly possible that a near impossible to kill, hard hitting, unblockable seven drop that provides no immediate value is mediocre. Considering a decent amount of cubes were already running Sphinx of Jwar Isle, I'm not so sure you are right.
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The fact that you can block all day AND attack is killer. I had originally thought that he came into play at the next upkeep, and not end step. Boy did I do a backflip when I reread the card
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holy s...
Did not think of that. OMG!
I was thinking of his amazing use with wrath effects in blue white control, but dang, even more hilarious.
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