If you like fake cards and not directly supporting the hobby, sure. Personally, I would just wait until the new set hype dies down and proxy it for testing purposes if you can't wait that long.
Wow. My trade is looking better everyday. Picked one up at the pre-release for a Master of Cruelty and a Savageborn Hydra. Thought it was about even at the time...
Its not that I dont support the hobby, proxies are for when you don't have the money yet or for testing purposes. People who want to play with power but can't afford them can proxy it up. That is what I am doing. Not everyone has the money to go out and buy everything. And I am not going to wait till I have the money.
so much dragonmaze is going to be opened, just be patient.
I'm curious why you would say that?
Everyone that I've spoke to at my local gaming store seems to think this set is bad value to open because there aren't any money cards other than Voice and Ral. Shocklands are extremely rare, some boxes even have 0. People who normally open boxes aren't even opening any dragon's maze. People who used to open multiple boxes are opening 1 box.
In terms of draft, its 1 pack each of dragon's maze, gatecrash and RtR. There are no more of the triple GTC and triple RtR drafts, definitely not triple DGM drafts.
In terms of PTQs, it is Standard season and not Sealed, so not much product is going to be opened there. And the sealed events that do run are the full block, not just dragon's maze.
In terms of Magic Online redemptions, they've just raised the price of redemptions from $5 to $25, so that will greatly decrease the value of redeeming sets from MTGO.
All signs seems to point to this being a 3rd set with the lowest card availability. Voice of Resurgence at this point is the #1 chase mythic money card from this set with applications in standard, modern, cube, possibly legacy, possibly edh and casual, therefore, I think it's value will only go up from here.
Everyone that I've spoke to at my local gaming store seems to think this set is bad value to open because there aren't any money cards other than Voice and Ral. Shocklands are extremely rare, some boxes even have 0. People who normally open boxes aren't even opening any dragon's maze. People who used to open multiple boxes are opening 1 box.
In terms of draft, its 1 pack each of dragon's maze, gatecrash and RtR. There are no more of the triple GTC and triple RtR drafts, definitely not triple DGM drafts.
In terms of PTQs, it is Standard season and not Sealed, so not much product is going to be opened there. And the sealed events that do run are the full block, not just dragon's maze.
In terms of Magic Online redemptions, they've just raised the price of redemptions from $5 to $25, so that will greatly decrease the value of redeeming sets from MTGO.
All signs seems to point to this being a 3rd set with the lowest card availability. Voice of Resurgence at this point is the #1 chase mythic money card from this set with applications in standard, modern, cube, possibly legacy, possibly edh and casual, therefore, I think it's value will only go up from here.
Agree. I usually open 1-3 boxes of each set depending on winnings and how good I think the set is value wise. I will skip DGM.
I think it's very possible that this set will be hit by the 3rd set value-boost that we have seen at other times, if some cards will be better than it looks like. I think Ral Zarek is the most possible to experience the Jace Syndrome.
To make this happend DGM have very many of the "correct" things going for it. It's a low-value set atm, very many are disappointed thus opening fewer boxes and the demand is generally low. If Ral Zarek for instance shows up in some winning legacy or modern deck in 2 years, it have the potential to skyrocket because of scarcity.
I think enough will be opened for the value to drop in the short term. $40 for voice reminds me of $45 for JAoT at the start of RTR. Maybe it will not drop all the way to $10, who knows.
Agree. I usually open 1-3 boxes of each set depending on winnings and how good I think the set is value wise. I will skip DGM.
I think it's very possible that this set will be hit by the 3rd set value-boost that we have seen at other times, if some cards will be better than it looks like. I think Ral Zarek is the most possible to experience the Jace Syndrome.
To make this happend DGM have very many of the "correct" things going for it. It's a low-value set atm, very many are disappointed thus opening fewer boxes and the demand is generally low. If Ral Zarek for instance shows up in some winning legacy or modern deck in 2 years, it have the potential to skyrocket because of scarcity.
This is very true. I am borderline willing to buy Ral for ~30. As I fear this exact thing will happen. Voice I think I'll keep proxied, as idk how it will turn out. I even play Maverick in legacy but can't support the card running past $20-25 a pop. IMO it's not worth that kind of money. Perhaps I'll have to trade in some things.
I'm really hoping both Ral and VoR avoid the Liliana of the Veil/Jace the Mind Sculptor effect: skyrocketing value.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
If Ral isn't in this year's planeswalker duel deck then he will probably skyrocket later. However unlike JTMS, and liliana to an extent, magic is increasingly gaining popularity, so a lot of these packs will be opened, larger supply and larger demand though.
My bet is on Gideon Jura vs Vraska though, so I've already acquired my Ral.
Casual market will be opening tons of dragon's maze, it seems like the only people being looked at for price speculation are people who show up to FNM, or are in your local playgroup.
I also already got my Ral and my Voice. Don't want to deal with whatever price they'll rise to later. If they drop, that's fine too. I just get to play with the cards early.
If you like fake cards and not directly supporting the hobby, sure.
Or if you enjoy the activity of making nice looking proxies and spend plenty of money on magic in other areas. And if you are poor. And if you want to cube with strangers by just bringing the cube to local shops.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
I think in a small enough cube where you're only running 3 WG cards, you might have enough aggro 1-drops to not need Lion, and might have enough disenchant/naturalize effects to not need Pridemage. Voice gives Selesnya midrange a tool against control decks (which is important because it shores up the deck's biggest weakness), and gives you a big power/cost value for 2 mana for any deck/matchup. I'd consider at least testing it out in the #3 slot behind Finks and Militant.
@ Lasserini, i dunno know man, he may actually have to become a 360 staple for GW to fight against the decks its weakest against. in a smaller cube you know you'll see those decks & you'll need your tools to fight them
Or if you enjoy the activity of making nice looking proxies and spend plenty of money on magic in other areas. And if you are poor. And if you want to cube with strangers by just bringing the cube to local shops.
IMO, you should only be making long-term proxies if you own the cards/plan on acquiring the cards in the near future. WotC spends a lot of time/effort/money on developing the game, and it is my belief that this type of behavior is similar to the pirating and distribution of copyrighted music. People deserve to be rewarded for their hard work by customers spending money on the product if they want to enjoy it.
I have zero problem with people making copies of their 'good' Cubes to take on the road and risk loss, and also zero problem with people making short-term proxies to test cards/decks before buying them.
This is obviously a completely different thread and discussion, but it is germaine tangentally because of the rising price of Mythics at release date and trying to do the best for ourselves financially/for our Cubes with this new super-volatile Magical economy.
FWIW, I think almost all the cards will settle (esp. Ral Zarek) once more are put into circulation/the newness has worn off/people realize that they aren't super-awesome. Voice has the most potential for a high price (because of the 4-of-ness of it), but I really can't imagine it peaking higher than the $40 price tag it has right now.
IMO, you should only be making long-term proxies if you own the cards/plan on acquiring the cards in the near future. WotC spends a lot of time/effort/money on developing the game, and it is my belief that this type of behavior is similar to the pirating and distribution of copyrighted music. People deserve to be rewarded for their hard work by customers spending money on the product if they want to enjoy it.
I agree with your last sentence but I don't think it's remotely related to the rest of the paragraph. I spend plenty of money on magic. Believe me, they are as rewarded for their work as much as my budget will allow. But I'm not going to let my weekly income determine what my cube looks like.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Ignoring the issue of proxies (which I use for the ABU duals) and the difference between WotC and second market economies, and the health of the game at large, I think Voice is pretty awesome!
Frankly, we are just not used to playing with it yet. Thus there have been a few mistakes resulting in free tokens, and the largest we have seen the token was 13/13 (yay tokens)! Most of the time it is more like a 2/2 or a 3/3, but until everyone gets used to it the value is insane. When we do, it will still be insane.
I agree with your last sentence but I don't think it's remotely related to the rest of the paragraph. I spend plenty of money on magic. Believe me, they are as rewarded for their work as much as my budget will allow. But I'm not going to let my weekly income determine what my cube looks like.
I'm not sure how you find them unrelated.
And doesn't your weekly income affect what everything looks like? I'm a bit confused how that is rationalization for using someone else's work without compensating them.
I know that not a lot of people agree with me, but that's just how I feel about it. I've certainly never been rich, but I find other (legitimate) methods to obtain cards I want, and wouldn't consider making proxies without making an honest effort to obtain the actual thing. I don't see how it is any different than copying an album/cd/whatever, but never going out and spending the money on the product since your friend already burned you a copy.
Somewhat related: Do people make copies of expensive board games they like? I honesly don't know.
There are certainly legitimate discussions to be had about proxing (and pirating, for that matter) but I think it varies from case to case and person to person. For me, I spend some mild amount of money on magic and accessories. If I didn't proxy, I would spend no money at all, so at least in my case, it is win-win.
Proxies are a tough subject. I agree with Antknee about paying people for their work, but at the same time I agree with quitequiter about his budget concerns. If you had to live in your budget you wouldn't have a cube, so it's not like WoTC actually lost any money to your proxies, and you might not even buy magic related stuff if you didn't own a cube, so there would be other loses then as well.
I'm torn on the subject personally, I see the pros and cons of both sides, the solution is probably somewhere in quitequiters situation, still spending money on the game but using proxies for cards that are so expensive you'd never have them in the first place. Proxying so you don't have to spend money you could spend I think is wrong.
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And doesn't your weekly income affect what everything looks like? I'm a bit confused how that is rationalization for using someone else's work without compensating them.
-AA
I proxy some of my expensive cards in my cube if there's some strangers playing for any reason.
Also, let's say I set aside $100-300 per month for magic if I proxy. I would spend $0 without proxy. Which of those helps the game more?
It's not like the company is even the same company as the one back then when alpha/beta is released anyways. For each power transaction on the market now, wizards see an amazing amount of $0. Buying on secondary market is exactly what it sounds like. It's like buying games second hand from gamestop or whatever because it's cheaper. It doesn't help the company any. Or say, in your example, buy a cd from another person.
I guess I only buy Singles nowadays, plus commander decks/planechase decks/duel deck or whatever they puts out. But I know my singles purchases (at least from the older sets, the newer sets might be debateable) doesn't help Wizards at all.
If you like fake cards and not directly supporting the hobby, sure. Personally, I would just wait until the new set hype dies down and proxy it for testing purposes if you can't wait that long.
-AA
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No way it stays at $40.
I think this guy is the most overhyped card in ages. Including in here.
Yes it's good. But my gut feeling says me it's nowhere near as good as people make him out to be.
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I'm curious why you would say that?
Everyone that I've spoke to at my local gaming store seems to think this set is bad value to open because there aren't any money cards other than Voice and Ral. Shocklands are extremely rare, some boxes even have 0. People who normally open boxes aren't even opening any dragon's maze. People who used to open multiple boxes are opening 1 box.
In terms of draft, its 1 pack each of dragon's maze, gatecrash and RtR. There are no more of the triple GTC and triple RtR drafts, definitely not triple DGM drafts.
In terms of PTQs, it is Standard season and not Sealed, so not much product is going to be opened there. And the sealed events that do run are the full block, not just dragon's maze.
In terms of Magic Online redemptions, they've just raised the price of redemptions from $5 to $25, so that will greatly decrease the value of redeeming sets from MTGO.
All signs seems to point to this being a 3rd set with the lowest card availability. Voice of Resurgence at this point is the #1 chase mythic money card from this set with applications in standard, modern, cube, possibly legacy, possibly edh and casual, therefore, I think it's value will only go up from here.
Agree. I usually open 1-3 boxes of each set depending on winnings and how good I think the set is value wise. I will skip DGM.
I think it's very possible that this set will be hit by the 3rd set value-boost that we have seen at other times, if some cards will be better than it looks like. I think Ral Zarek is the most possible to experience the Jace Syndrome.
To make this happend DGM have very many of the "correct" things going for it. It's a low-value set atm, very many are disappointed thus opening fewer boxes and the demand is generally low. If Ral Zarek for instance shows up in some winning legacy or modern deck in 2 years, it have the potential to skyrocket because of scarcity.
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Bonda is probably right long term.
This is very true. I am borderline willing to buy Ral for ~30. As I fear this exact thing will happen. Voice I think I'll keep proxied, as idk how it will turn out. I even play Maverick in legacy but can't support the card running past $20-25 a pop. IMO it's not worth that kind of money. Perhaps I'll have to trade in some things.
I'm really hoping both Ral and VoR avoid the Liliana of the Veil/Jace the Mind Sculptor effect: skyrocketing value.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
My bet is on Gideon Jura vs Vraska though, so I've already acquired my Ral.
Casual market will be opening tons of dragon's maze, it seems like the only people being looked at for price speculation are people who show up to FNM, or are in your local playgroup.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
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Or if you enjoy the activity of making nice looking proxies and spend plenty of money on magic in other areas. And if you are poor. And if you want to cube with strangers by just bringing the cube to local shops.
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I would run Pridemage over Lion.
And this card have been working VERY well in testing. He's unique and fun, and of course, strong, too.
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IMO, you should only be making long-term proxies if you own the cards/plan on acquiring the cards in the near future. WotC spends a lot of time/effort/money on developing the game, and it is my belief that this type of behavior is similar to the pirating and distribution of copyrighted music. People deserve to be rewarded for their hard work by customers spending money on the product if they want to enjoy it.
I have zero problem with people making copies of their 'good' Cubes to take on the road and risk loss, and also zero problem with people making short-term proxies to test cards/decks before buying them.
This is obviously a completely different thread and discussion, but it is germaine tangentally because of the rising price of Mythics at release date and trying to do the best for ourselves financially/for our Cubes with this new super-volatile Magical economy.
FWIW, I think almost all the cards will settle (esp. Ral Zarek) once more are put into circulation/the newness has worn off/people realize that they aren't super-awesome. Voice has the most potential for a high price (because of the 4-of-ness of it), but I really can't imagine it peaking higher than the $40 price tag it has right now.
-AA
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I pulled Loam Lion out for Voice.
I agree with your last sentence but I don't think it's remotely related to the rest of the paragraph. I spend plenty of money on magic. Believe me, they are as rewarded for their work as much as my budget will allow. But I'm not going to let my weekly income determine what my cube looks like.
Frankly, we are just not used to playing with it yet. Thus there have been a few mistakes resulting in free tokens, and the largest we have seen the token was 13/13 (yay tokens)! Most of the time it is more like a 2/2 or a 3/3, but until everyone gets used to it the value is insane. When we do, it will still be insane.
I'm not sure how you find them unrelated.
And doesn't your weekly income affect what everything looks like? I'm a bit confused how that is rationalization for using someone else's work without compensating them.
I know that not a lot of people agree with me, but that's just how I feel about it. I've certainly never been rich, but I find other (legitimate) methods to obtain cards I want, and wouldn't consider making proxies without making an honest effort to obtain the actual thing. I don't see how it is any different than copying an album/cd/whatever, but never going out and spending the money on the product since your friend already burned you a copy.
Somewhat related: Do people make copies of expensive board games they like? I honesly don't know.
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
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I'm torn on the subject personally, I see the pros and cons of both sides, the solution is probably somewhere in quitequiters situation, still spending money on the game but using proxies for cards that are so expensive you'd never have them in the first place. Proxying so you don't have to spend money you could spend I think is wrong.
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I proxy some of my expensive cards in my cube if there's some strangers playing for any reason.
Also, let's say I set aside $100-300 per month for magic if I proxy. I would spend $0 without proxy. Which of those helps the game more?
It's not like the company is even the same company as the one back then when alpha/beta is released anyways. For each power transaction on the market now, wizards see an amazing amount of $0. Buying on secondary market is exactly what it sounds like. It's like buying games second hand from gamestop or whatever because it's cheaper. It doesn't help the company any. Or say, in your example, buy a cd from another person.
I guess I only buy Singles nowadays, plus commander decks/planechase decks/duel deck or whatever they puts out. But I know my singles purchases (at least from the older sets, the newer sets might be debateable) doesn't help Wizards at all.
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