Is Wear/Tear really worth it though? Is it better than any of these cards in a R/W section?:
Ajani V
Boros Charm
Figure of Destiny
Slayer's Stronghold
Lightning Helix
Boros Reckoner
Duergar Hedge-Mage
Orim's Thunder (particuarly rate it against this card)
Soltari Guerillas
I think it's better than:
Duergar Hedge-Mage
Orim's Thunder (particuarly rate it against this card)
Soltari Guerillas
How are we going to organize the new rare split card? As in the shard section? Maybe?
It all depends on the specific card imo. For example Beck/Call is something that fits into bant well, you'll want to be able to Fuse it so you'll be at the very least splashing green for it (via City of Brass, etc), if I had a Bant section (and the card was much better) it would go into that, as for now it would be placed in my "colorless" section until there are enough respectable tricolor cards.
I think it's better than:
Duergar Hedge-Mage
Orim's Thunder (particuarly rate it against this card)
Soltari Guerillas
Agreed, I think it's a fine card that grants players the tools to interact with artifacts and enchantments in a big variety of decks.
It's a ton easier to cast than Duergar Hedge-Mage and Orim's Thunder because it lacks the color restrictions. I'll probably be playing it in my RW hybrid section unless we get something better.
Point 1: Aggro decks don't typically want to maindeck non-ETB creature artifact/enchantment hate.
In the typical Red/White cube deck (and let's face it, we're typically talking aggro decks here), I don't want to maindeck artifact/enchantment hate that's purely reactive and 1-for-1. Those decks typically get a lot more value out of cards like Keldon Vandals, Torch Fiend, and dare I say it, Orim's Thunder/Hedge-Mage (although I don't currently run either).
Point 2:Artifact hate > Enchantment hate
As we all know, Artifact hate is far more relevant in cubes nowadays than enchantment hate. Not to mention, against the average R/W aggro deck, there aren't a ton of enchantments floating around that are really backbreaking (except Moat of course). I have to say that if i'm in R/W, I'm picking the aforementioned creature based artifact hate cards much higher than a Disenchant.
Point 1: Aggro decks don't typically want to maindeck non-ETB creature artifact/enchantment hate.
In the typical Red/White cube deck (and let's face it, we're typically talking aggro decks here), I don't want to maindeck artifact/enchantment hate that's purely reactive and 1-for-1. Those decks typically get a lot more value out of cards like Keldon Vandals, Torch Fiend, and dare I say it, Orim's Thunder/Hedge-Mage (although I don't currently run either).
Point 2:Artifact hate > Enchantment hate
As we all know, Artifact hate is far more relevant in cubes nowadays than enchantment hate. Not to mention, against the average R/W aggro deck, there aren't a ton of enchantments floating around that are really backbreaking (except Moat of course). I have to say that if i'm in R/W, I'm picking the aforementioned creature based artifact hate cards much higher than a Disenchant.
I agree that in a pure aggro deck I'd rather have a creature-strapped disenchant effect than a disenchant.
Generally I think instant-speed goes a long way on disenchant-effects. And I don't really like hedge-mage and orim's thunder.
The new disenchant is better in midrange-controlling RWx builds, or in for instance UWr or URw control decks. If you want your RW section to be purely aggro, don't include this card (but don't include any of the three I have mentioned as worse either - use Truefire Paladin instead).
People actually want to play Wear // Tear? I think that card is awful.
Ral Zerek seems pretty good. I'm not fond of the +1 ability (wish it was looting or something) but repeatable lightning bolts and a really good ultimate might make up for it.
Nothing else that was spoiled really interests me.
The main point in favor of Wear//Tear is that if you run hybrid & split cards in their own section you can get Shatter and Demystify in just a single slot in your cube, possibly freeing up slots in your red or white mono sections for other effects. Obviously if you don't run sideboards then that's not going to be too helpful, but I'm fine with a few sideboard cards as long as their relatively flexible. The option to use either or both is a nice bonus if you happen to be in Boros, but not the main point of the card.
People actually want to play Wear // Tear? I think that card is awful.
Ral Zerek seems pretty good. I'm not fond of the +1 ability (wish it was looting or something) but repeatable lightning bolts and a really good ultimate might make up for it.
Nothing else that was spoiled really interests me.
I think the + ability is what makes the card interesting. The -2 is the bread and butter along with an interesting and potentially game winning ultimate, but I believe the +1 will create the most interesting stories when paired with the slew of cards that function well when you possess the ability to use them twice a turn.
The main point in favor of Wear//Tear is that if you run hybrid & split cards in their own section you can get Shatter and Demystify in just a single slot in your cube, possibly freeing up slots in your red or white mono sections for other effects. Obviously if you don't run sideboards then that's not going to be too helpful, but I'm fine with a few sideboard cards as long as their relatively flexible. The fuse option is a nice bonus if you happen to be in Boros, but not the main point of the card.
If you don't have both colors available to you, you're not going to play this card. And when you do have both colors available, it's an awful option. I think it's complete garbage. It's worse than Duergar Hedge-Mage, and seems like a bad Hull Breach to me.
Quote from Altaurus321 »
I think the + ability is what makes the card interesting. The -2 is the bread and butter along with an interesting and potentially game winning ultimate, but I believe the +1 will create the most interesting stories when paired with the slew of cards that function well when you possess the ability to use them twice a turn.
I also think it's interesting. Doesn't mean that I don't wish it was something better. Unless I'm untapping a Mana Vault or Grim Monolith with it, it could really be something more valuable.
But like I said, it has an obtainable ultimate that's pretty silly, it's repeatable Bolts, and it's in Izzet, which needs potentially awesome cards.
If you don't have both colors available to you, you're not going to play this card. And when you do have both colors available, it's an awful option. I think it's complete garbage. It's worse than Duergar Hedge-Mage, and seems like a bad Hull Breach to me.
Agreed, though I do like Fuse and would be happy if one made it in. I like Entwine and this is a variant of that.
I also think it's interesting. Doesn't mean that I don't wish it was something better. Unless I'm untapping a Mana Vault or Grim Monolith with it, it could really be something more valuable.
But like I said, it has an obtainable ultimate that's pretty silly, it's repeatable Bolts, and it's in Izzet, which needs potentially awesome cards.
I'm just saying you might be pleasantly surprised during playtesting, it could happen
People actually want to play Wear // Tear? I think that card is awful.
I'm stoked for it in legacy. It will replace Disenchant in the U/W/r control deck sideboards. That said, it has no place in cube.
IMO Multicolored cards should pull you into the color combination. Since neither side of Wear/Tear is cubeable on it's own, it would need to be a multicolored card to pull it's weight, and I'm not splashing white or red to get this.
Ajani Vengeant, on the other hand, I'm totally splashing for. I've also splashed for Lightning Helix, and i could see myself splashing for Boros Charm if it ever came up.
While I run a small list, so Wear // Tear is no where near making it in, I am in total agreement with Wolf here. Card seems far from what I want in my cube...
Very excited about Ral Zerek though! I am not convinced he is great in small cube Izzet but I would love a permanent. Just always seemed odd there was nothing Izzet could stick. That alone might make him good enough for me.
Even in the smallest cubes, Ral should go in. Most Izzet cards are solid, but unexciting. This guy has the potential to change that. Interesting untapping potential (allowing him to resolve with 5 loyalty for 3 mana at the very least) multiple lightning bolts and an ultimate that will give you 2+ Time Walks on average. I think he's a boss. Probably the best Izzet card now.
I'm not saying its the best card ever printed. But lets get something clear. If you play RW(x) this card is better than disenchant 99% of the time. So to call this card garbage is complete garbage...
I'm not saying its the best card ever printed. But lets get something clear. If you play RW(x) this card is better than disenchant 99% of the time. So to call this card garbage is complete garbage...
Well, Disenchant is good because I don't have to be playing WR for it to be decent. It's good in every white deck. This card is unplayable outside of WR. And once you're in WR, you have better options. So ya, I have no problem saying this card is unplayable in the cube. I can think of 9 WR cards that are better than this right off the top of my head. A cube would have to be over 1000 cards before I'd consider playing this. That's about as terrible as it can get, IMO.
Well, Disenchant is good because I don't have to be playing WR for it to be decent. It's good in every white deck. This card is unplayable outside of WR. And once you're in WR, you have better options. So ya, I have no problem saying this card is unplayable in the cube. I can think of 9 WR cards that are better than this right off the top of my head. A cube would have to be over 1000 cards before I'd consider playing this. That's about as terrible as it can get, IMO.
I don't agree with this philosophy, and I don't think there's 9 better WR cards printed (yet). This is an (almost) strictly better card than Disenchant for a WR deck. That makes it cubable for me in itself as Disenchant is a staple in my world. From cubable to must include is a long way though, and I do't by any means think that this card gives a lot or is important to the Boros section.
I just think that saying this card is 'complete garbage' is a false argument as it's (almost) strictly better than another card most cubes include (in the correct deck).
You could make the argument that it's too narrow to include in cube because the boros section don't want to have a disenchant effect or similar, but the way you wrote it could lead people to think that the card itself is bad. It might be bad in an aggro only boros section of an aggro focussed cube, but that doesn't make it garbage or un-cubable...
Wonder how good his +1 is in a cube like mine where the best untap artifact mana is a signet, still ramp but not a whole lot different than untapping a land.
I like that Ral fits in a lot of decks aggro, counterburn, big artifact/upheaval but I think the first ability is overrated. Most time only one half of the tap/untap is going to be used. If you have mana vault or something is gets tremendous or if you are tapping down a blocker while ramping into more threats also good. But I think he will prove good enough, and very flexible, much like all of the izzet cards I run. I am just hopinh he adds something that is very hard to quantify "Star Power" to the Izzet guild.
And I must say I love split cards, and I am very hopeful that Fuse makes some cubeable. It reminds me of entwine(one of my favorite abilities). We just need one that is cheap enough or that has two stand alone good sides. Seeing one wiht mono sides and one with guilds sides makes me hopeful that we will get at least 10 spilts maybe more to choose from. I am guessing that we will get 10 mono and 5 with the guilds to signify the secret alliances from rtr to gtc that they hinted at for the dgm release.
I don't agree with this philosophy, and I don't think there's 9 better WR cards printed (yet). This is an (almost) strictly better card than Disenchant for a WR deck. That makes it cubable for me in itself as Disenchant is a staple in my world. From cubable to must include is a long way though, and I do't by any means think that this card gives a lot or is important to the Boros section.
I just think that saying this card is 'complete garbage' is a false argument as it's (almost) strictly better than another card most cubes include (in the correct deck).
You could make the argument that it's too narrow to include in cube because the boros section don't want to have a disenchant effect or similar, but the way you wrote it could lead people to think that the card itself is bad. It might be bad in an aggro only boros section of an aggro focussed cube, but that doesn't make it garbage or un-cubable...
I do like this card and both sides are cheap, but it is not in the top 10 of r/w cards. The problem isn't that I had to be red white, the problem is that I think anti-artifact and anti-enchament cards are best when stapled to other effects. Card draw, creature, creature removal all pair amzingly with a disenchant. I highly recommend Orim's Thunder over this card.
To get the most out of it you have to be R/W and the need and artifact and and enchantment out. Pure enchament hate has no place in cube and neither does pure artifact hate in my opinion. Not because there are good targets, but because other cards do them better.
@wtwlf: I know you need no convincing, but to illustrate. Lets use Goblin Welder with Ral.
Sundering Titan gets blows up to 10 lands per turn (assuming maximum yield)
Myr Battlesphere makes you a token horde, While Wurmcoil gets you more powerful creatures.
Reset a Triskellion
Reset a Phyrexian Revoker
Reset Moxen
Do crazy things with Memory Jar
Mimic Vat Shenanigans (Possibly Turning it into a way to exile opponents creatures or something)
And thats just a quick run-through with just Welder. I see quite a few more as well.
He may be no Ajani V., but he does seem like a very rock solid card for Izzet.
Shame though I play peasant and wont get to play him....
How are we going to organize the new rare split card? As in the shard section? Maybe?
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I think it's better than:
Duergar Hedge-Mage
Orim's Thunder (particuarly rate it against this card)
Soltari Guerillas
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It all depends on the specific card imo. For example Beck/Call is something that fits into bant well, you'll want to be able to Fuse it so you'll be at the very least splashing green for it (via City of Brass, etc), if I had a Bant section (and the card was much better) it would go into that, as for now it would be placed in my "colorless" section until there are enough respectable tricolor cards.
Agreed, I think it's a fine card that grants players the tools to interact with artifacts and enchantments in a big variety of decks.
It's a ton easier to cast than Duergar Hedge-Mage and Orim's Thunder because it lacks the color restrictions. I'll probably be playing it in my RW hybrid section unless we get something better.
Point 1: Aggro decks don't typically want to maindeck non-ETB creature artifact/enchantment hate.
In the typical Red/White cube deck (and let's face it, we're typically talking aggro decks here), I don't want to maindeck artifact/enchantment hate that's purely reactive and 1-for-1. Those decks typically get a lot more value out of cards like Keldon Vandals, Torch Fiend, and dare I say it, Orim's Thunder/Hedge-Mage (although I don't currently run either).
Point 2: Artifact hate > Enchantment hate
As we all know, Artifact hate is far more relevant in cubes nowadays than enchantment hate. Not to mention, against the average R/W aggro deck, there aren't a ton of enchantments floating around that are really backbreaking (except Moat of course). I have to say that if i'm in R/W, I'm picking the aforementioned creature based artifact hate cards much higher than a Disenchant.
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I agree that in a pure aggro deck I'd rather have a creature-strapped disenchant effect than a disenchant.
Generally I think instant-speed goes a long way on disenchant-effects. And I don't really like hedge-mage and orim's thunder.
The new disenchant is better in midrange-controlling RWx builds, or in for instance UWr or URw control decks. If you want your RW section to be purely aggro, don't include this card (but don't include any of the three I have mentioned as worse either - use Truefire Paladin instead).
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Ral Zerek seems pretty good. I'm not fond of the +1 ability (wish it was looting or something) but repeatable lightning bolts and a really good ultimate might make up for it.
Nothing else that was spoiled really interests me.
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I think the + ability is what makes the card interesting. The -2 is the bread and butter along with an interesting and potentially game winning ultimate, but I believe the +1 will create the most interesting stories when paired with the slew of cards that function well when you possess the ability to use them twice a turn.
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If you don't have both colors available to you, you're not going to play this card. And when you do have both colors available, it's an awful option. I think it's complete garbage. It's worse than Duergar Hedge-Mage, and seems like a bad Hull Breach to me.
I also think it's interesting. Doesn't mean that I don't wish it was something better. Unless I'm untapping a Mana Vault or Grim Monolith with it, it could really be something more valuable.
But like I said, it has an obtainable ultimate that's pretty silly, it's repeatable Bolts, and it's in Izzet, which needs potentially awesome cards.
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Agreed, though I do like Fuse and would be happy if one made it in. I like Entwine and this is a variant of that.
I'm just saying you might be pleasantly surprised during playtesting, it could happen
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I'm stoked for it in legacy. It will replace Disenchant in the U/W/r control deck sideboards. That said, it has no place in cube.
IMO Multicolored cards should pull you into the color combination. Since neither side of Wear/Tear is cubeable on it's own, it would need to be a multicolored card to pull it's weight, and I'm not splashing white or red to get this.
Ajani Vengeant, on the other hand, I'm totally splashing for. I've also splashed for Lightning Helix, and i could see myself splashing for Boros Charm if it ever came up.
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Very excited about Ral Zerek though! I am not convinced he is great in small cube Izzet but I would love a permanent. Just always seemed odd there was nothing Izzet could stick. That alone might make him good enough for me.
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Well, Disenchant is good because I don't have to be playing WR for it to be decent. It's good in every white deck. This card is unplayable outside of WR. And once you're in WR, you have better options. So ya, I have no problem saying this card is unplayable in the cube. I can think of 9 WR cards that are better than this right off the top of my head. A cube would have to be over 1000 cards before I'd consider playing this. That's about as terrible as it can get, IMO.
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I don't agree with this philosophy, and I don't think there's 9 better WR cards printed (yet). This is an (almost) strictly better card than Disenchant for a WR deck. That makes it cubable for me in itself as Disenchant is a staple in my world. From cubable to must include is a long way though, and I do't by any means think that this card gives a lot or is important to the Boros section.
I just think that saying this card is 'complete garbage' is a false argument as it's (almost) strictly better than another card most cubes include (in the correct deck).
You could make the argument that it's too narrow to include in cube because the boros section don't want to have a disenchant effect or similar, but the way you wrote it could lead people to think that the card itself is bad. It might be bad in an aggro only boros section of an aggro focussed cube, but that doesn't make it garbage or un-cubable...
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And I must say I love split cards, and I am very hopeful that Fuse makes some cubeable. It reminds me of entwine(one of my favorite abilities). We just need one that is cheap enough or that has two stand alone good sides. Seeing one wiht mono sides and one with guilds sides makes me hopeful that we will get at least 10 spilts maybe more to choose from. I am guessing that we will get 10 mono and 5 with the guilds to signify the secret alliances from rtr to gtc that they hinted at for the dgm release.
Taking up to 5 extra turns might be what you're looking for.
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I do like this card and both sides are cheap, but it is not in the top 10 of r/w cards. The problem isn't that I had to be red white, the problem is that I think anti-artifact and anti-enchament cards are best when stapled to other effects. Card draw, creature, creature removal all pair amzingly with a disenchant. I highly recommend Orim's Thunder over this card.
To get the most out of it you have to be R/W and the need and artifact and and enchantment out. Pure enchament hate has no place in cube and neither does pure artifact hate in my opinion. Not because there are good targets, but because other cards do them better.
Sundering Titan gets blows up to 10 lands per turn (assuming maximum yield)
Myr Battlesphere makes you a token horde, While Wurmcoil gets you more powerful creatures.
Reset a Triskellion
Reset a Phyrexian Revoker
Reset Moxen
Do crazy things with Memory Jar
Mimic Vat Shenanigans (Possibly Turning it into a way to exile opponents creatures or something)
And thats just a quick run-through with just Welder. I see quite a few more as well.
He may be no Ajani V., but he does seem like a very rock solid card for Izzet.
Shame though I play peasant and wont get to play him....
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