Wow, we've come a long way since Baneslayer Angel. I'm excluding this lady from my 720 because I'm sticking to 5 five-drops and I'm happy with the ones I run, but I wouldn't fault anyone for swapping out their weakest link. I think she's pretty much interchangeable with the lower-tier cards Battlegrace Angel, Geist-Honored Monk and Scion of Vitu-Ghazi depending on what role you want your last five-drop to fill.
Just just put in Archangel of Thune and Meadowgrain just to do mock drafts... first draft came up with this pretty ideal deck (with I had more 1 and 2 drops).
I'd have played the Winter Orb over Zuran Orb in that deck but it seems solid overall.
With no mana rocks or mana elves at all I couldn't main deck the Winter Orb. The deck's curve is too high to be aggro. I have no problem bringing it in vs slower decks game two.
Zuran Orb has awesome interaction with Archangel of Thune, perhaps allowing you to turn a game in your favour... Zuran Orb can keep you alive against the faster aggro decks that can end the game by turn 4 or 5. Especially ones with red, keeping you out of lethal burn damage for perhaps a turn or two. The creature pump is great against midrange allowing your 2 power guys to trade or kill their 3-4 toughness guys.
Zuran Orb can help against unfavourable matchups. Win more cards turn favourable matchups into slaughters... In this situation, I can't see it as a win more kind of card.
How can they be much faster? You already have a bunch of cheap dudes backed up with cheap removal plus a jitte which automatically swings the matchup in your favor. Also five of your other cards already gain you life while advancing your game plan.
Your five drops should win the game for you against midrange.
Winter Orb allows you to cast a psuedo geddon that should pretty much lock up any game you are ahead on.
How can they be much faster? You already have a bunch of cheap dudes backed up with cheap removal plus a jitte which automatically swings the matchup in your favor.
No moxes or other mana rocks at all. No mana elves. Just 3 1-drops and 3 2-drops and no hasty creatures, even at the top of the curve. Aggro decks usually have a higher count and red has hasty creatures (and even cheaper more efficient removal in the early stage).
Your five drops should win the game for you against midrange.
Winter Orb allows you to cast a psuedo geddon that should pretty much lock up any game you are ahead on.
Again it's the lack of mana rocks/elves that kept me from running it here. I'm a big fan of Winter Orb don't get me wrong. I just feel that the other Orb was more synergistic with this deck.
I agree, the 5 drops are favourable against midrange.
I pulled a foil one today. On looks alone this might be prettier than any card I have in my cube so I might give it a try not. The Zuran Orb combo is cute, so I might give that card another go round.
I also run nearheath pilgrim and syndic of tides, giving it a little bit of goose.
I pulled a foil one today. On looks alone this might be prettier than any card I have in my cube so I might give it a try not. The Zuran Orb combo is cute, so I might give that card another go round.
I also run nearheath pilgrim and syndic of tides, giving it a little bit of goose.
Congrats man! Based on prices I think it's one of the if not the chase card of the set. I picked one up as well just cuz I think it's so pretty and although I don't think it'll make my cube (at least not at this time) I have a mini side project I'm working on which she'll be used in.
I love her and would run her if the drop in power wasn't as significant (I just can't imagine cubing without Baneslayer, Cloudgoat or Reveillark).
Not to dredge up a two month old thread, but I've been playing this card over Sublime Archangel for the past three or four cube drafts and she is an absolute house. I have no issues comparing her to Baneslayer in that she's a must deal with card or the games just get out of control. She's obviously not as good as Baneslayer, but she can certainly take over a game in the right deck.
On paper, yeah, she does seem a little lackluster. She plays a bit differently in action, though. So far she's shined in WG and BW midrange strategies. She almost always has friends to add counters to and there are all kinds of incidental life gain that triggers her ability.
Would I play it over any current popular 5-drops? Maybe. I'd likely run it over Karmic Guide because I'm not a huge fan of that card and those decks just don't tend to come together in my group. But if you're running a 4-drop like Sublime Archangel, this chick definitely deserves the testing time. One more 5-drop doesn't skew the numbers enough to matter and I think if you haven't tested her, you're missing out. I've honestly not had a bad experience with her yet. She's super solid and I have no problems running her at 550+.
I replaced Karmic Guide with this and have been really impressed with it. It will stay in our cube and there are many times it is better than baneslayer even. I was originally not interested because the worst case scenario, but that doesn't match how it has played for our group.
i couldn't imagine giving up karmic guide for her, due to the unique effect karmic guide offers.
I agree that Sublime Archangel might be worth cutting, however that card plays well in the U/W Control Deck.
This card seems like it is meant to shine in a aggro midrange deck by the time it drops; but the other five drops just seem so much better in white or the other color you are playing.
I'm excited to try this one out. It seems like it has a very high ceiling in the right deck. I love those kinds of cards.
That's funny, after reading your comments about Baneslayer and why you omit her I thought that the Archangel would be a perfect "replacement" for you. I ran her for a while and she's mean, kept finding little lifegain triggers in play that we hadn't notice before. Unlucky for me, this was in my wife's deck as it proceded to crush me. :-(
Unfortunately, I'm gonna be cutting her as I can't run that many 5 drops and she's outclassed given that we run Baneslayer.
There's been some discussion of this card in the Wingmate Roc thread, so rather than clutter that thread with discussion on Archangel of Thune, I thought I'd resurrect this thread. It's no secret that I'm a pretty huge fan of the card. I have nothing but good things to say about it and I've yet to have a negative experience or felt that it was overpriced for the value it returned. The first turn she's in play she deters opposing attacks and has random team buffing interactions just through her gain life trigger. After that, one attack typically results in three life via her lifelink and a buffed team. Even if she's the only creature on your board, she turns into an Exalted Angel after just one attack. And as I've said a few times before, with even just a couple other creatures on the battlefield, her pump ability can get out of control very quickly.
If you've tested her and had bad experiences, I'm curious to hear exactly what those experiences were. On the other side of that I'd like to hear about a time when she was fantastic for you.
I have to confess I was initially very skeptical of this card. It wasn't until playing against it in the MODO cube did I come around to how annoying this thing can be. It quickly becomes a must kill creature that pulls you far ahead in race situations. Often plays out like the Ajani (Goldmane and Steadfast) only you are attacking (with evasion) AND pumping your team at the same time.
Plus all the +1/+1 coutner interactions to be had...this won't be leaving my cube for a while.
I rank Archangel and Wingmate Roc as pretty close analogues; I've liked it a lot in G/X midrange decks with token dudes to pump and as a nice threat. It's nice when it pumps Wall of Omens into a 1/5 and honestly, I have no qualms on playing it in a deck with 0 other lifegain cards, although it's obviously better with them (like Umezawa's Jitte. o_O)
The Jitte synergy has only came up one time in our drafts so far, but yeah it was pretty bonkers. She also makes Ajani Goldmane's plus ability less mediocre.
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With no mana rocks or mana elves at all I couldn't main deck the Winter Orb. The deck's curve is too high to be aggro. I have no problem bringing it in vs slower decks game two.
Zuran Orb has awesome interaction with Archangel of Thune, perhaps allowing you to turn a game in your favour... Zuran Orb can keep you alive against the faster aggro decks that can end the game by turn 4 or 5. Especially ones with red, keeping you out of lethal burn damage for perhaps a turn or two. The creature pump is great against midrange allowing your 2 power guys to trade or kill their 3-4 toughness guys.
Zuran Orb can help against unfavourable matchups. Win more cards turn favourable matchups into slaughters... In this situation, I can't see it as a win more kind of card.
Your five drops should win the game for you against midrange.
Winter Orb allows you to cast a psuedo geddon that should pretty much lock up any game you are ahead on.
No moxes or other mana rocks at all. No mana elves. Just 3 1-drops and 3 2-drops and no hasty creatures, even at the top of the curve. Aggro decks usually have a higher count and red has hasty creatures (and even cheaper more efficient removal in the early stage).
This is true. But Zuran Orb allows me to do it anytime.
Again it's the lack of mana rocks/elves that kept me from running it here. I'm a big fan of Winter Orb don't get me wrong. I just feel that the other Orb was more synergistic with this deck.
I agree, the 5 drops are favourable against midrange.
Geddon and its variants don't need artifact mana to be good, you just have to be ahead in terms of the board. Winter Orb is good in every aggro deck.
I also run nearheath pilgrim and syndic of tides, giving it a little bit of goose.
Congrats man! Based on prices I think it's one of the if not the chase card of the set. I picked one up as well just cuz I think it's so pretty and although I don't think it'll make my cube (at least not at this time) I have a mini side project I'm working on which she'll be used in.
I love her and would run her if the drop in power wasn't as significant (I just can't imagine cubing without Baneslayer, Cloudgoat or Reveillark).
On paper, yeah, she does seem a little lackluster. She plays a bit differently in action, though. So far she's shined in WG and BW midrange strategies. She almost always has friends to add counters to and there are all kinds of incidental life gain that triggers her ability.
Would I play it over any current popular 5-drops? Maybe. I'd likely run it over Karmic Guide because I'm not a huge fan of that card and those decks just don't tend to come together in my group. But if you're running a 4-drop like Sublime Archangel, this chick definitely deserves the testing time. One more 5-drop doesn't skew the numbers enough to matter and I think if you haven't tested her, you're missing out. I've honestly not had a bad experience with her yet. She's super solid and I have no problems running her at 550+.
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I agree that Sublime Archangel might be worth cutting, however that card plays well in the U/W Control Deck.
This card seems like it is meant to shine in a aggro midrange deck by the time it drops; but the other five drops just seem so much better in white or the other color you are playing.
Any one else able to weigh in on this card?
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That's funny, after reading your comments about Baneslayer and why you omit her I thought that the Archangel would be a perfect "replacement" for you. I ran her for a while and she's mean, kept finding little lifegain triggers in play that we hadn't notice before. Unlucky for me, this was in my wife's deck as it proceded to crush me. :-(
Unfortunately, I'm gonna be cutting her as I can't run that many 5 drops and she's outclassed given that we run Baneslayer.
Hope you have fun with her.
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If you've tested her and had bad experiences, I'm curious to hear exactly what those experiences were. On the other side of that I'd like to hear about a time when she was fantastic for you.
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Plus all the +1/+1 coutner interactions to be had...this won't be leaving my cube for a while.
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