Comparing this to Stoneforge is so whacky that I thought Hinotama was actually talking about Stonewright. Stoneforge tutors up what is likely to be one of the very best cards in your deck. Pyromancer makes 1/1s.
I don't think this card is all that great. Just a 2/1 body that you'll occasionally get a 1/1 out of. You drop it turn 2, you almost feel obligated to use a spell the next turn just to give it some value. I feel a lot of times it'll just be a 2/1 with an almost negligible reward, kind of like Blood Scrivener.
I don't think this card is all that great. Just a 2/1 body that you'll occasionally get a 1/1 out of. You drop it turn 2, you almost feel obligated to use a spell the next turn just to give it some value. I feel a lot of times it'll just be a 2/1 with an almost negligible reward, kind of like Blood Scrivener.
I don't understand how virtual CA is a negligible reward especially on a red 2 drop. if this makes 2 tokens then I don't see how it isn't worth it. You don't have to play spells sooner than you normally would, you can play them at your leisure and meanwhile bash for 2 (what pretty much every red 1-3 drop does anyway.) if he soaks up removal then good, that's what 2 drops are for. It seems like an excellent early drop for control, and a pretty decent dude for aggro. I haven't played with it yet, but I regularly play decks that would find this guy giving me 3-4 tokens if unchecked an on curve which is insane on a red two drop. Even just 1 token is 3 power and 2 bodies and that is uncommon for red at that cost.
Even just 1 token is 3 power and 2 bodies and that is uncommon for red at that cost.
Problem is, that extra 1 power is attacking probably/potentially late enough in the game where a 1/1 grounded dude isn't relevant. Even best case scenario it's a lone extra 1/1 attacking on turn 4 the earliest.
Problem is, that extra 1 power is attacking probably/potentially late enough in the game where a 1/1 grounded dude isn't relevant. Even best case scenario it's a lone extra 1/1 attacking on turn 4 the earliest.
Luckily, red has Hellrider and Hero of Oxid Ridge that attack on turn 4 as well, so not all is lost in that scenario. And sometimes, you just cast removal on turns 3-5 and keep swinging with your extra 1/1s!
I'm not willing to discount this card without trying it myself; Guttersnipe is a card that I had to play to believe, and I'm sold on it.
I think people are discounting this guy a little too quickly. I've seen people talk about pox/attrition style decks a little already, but I think it's shells like that where this guy belongs. I realize he is not immediately in the league of the other 4 "broken" 2-drops, but those cards need support as well. Stoneforge Mystic needs powerful equipment to function, Snapcaster Mage needs a reasonable density of cheap spells, Dark Confidant needs a mana curve catered to it, and yet few people would consider cutting these cards. Now Young Pyromancer may provide a different upside than those cards, but in the right archetypes, the advantage it provides can be overwhelming.
Again, this card may not be the premier 2-drop in your mono red aggro deck, but in the right shell where the 1/1s have more value than simply attacking, this card can be insane. I'm excited to test more with and find more synergies that will make this card more appreciated.
Very solid though doesn't always shine (due to not having enough instants and/or sorceries). I think he's enough better than most red 2 drops right now that he should be in 360 lists.
It good. People are less willing to burn kill spells on a 2/1 that doesn't draw you tons of free cards.
Pretty much this.
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Very solid though doesn't always shine (due to not having enough instants and/or sorceries). I think he's enough better than most red 2 drops right now that he should be in 360 lists.
And this. My favourite play yet was dropping him T2 and then Mental Misstepping a Swords to Plowshares aimed at him. Followed by a Lightning Bolt, Skullclamp and equip the turn after. There's not much better than that play using this guy. Sometimes he will do little but that's the nature of the game.
He's been a very good 2-drop creature for us so far... seriously, one activation and you got your money's worth already and anything after is gravy. The 1/1's have value throughout the game (they've protected Ral Zarek and help vs Pox/Braids). You do have to be able to draft a good number of instants/sorceries -- I'd say you want to have 8+ in your deck. He has sat on the sideboard a couple of times due to instant/sorcery count being too low.
I included him in our cube to support the 'spells matter Izzet deck' but his best game so far was in an aggressive Rakdos deck. SO much synergy with the discard, burn and removal. The card advantage is highlighted when you're getting 1/1's off of Dark Ritual, Hymn and Tutors...
He's been a very good 2-drop creature for us so far... seriously, one activation and you got your money's worth already and anything after is gravy. The 1/1's have value throughout the game (they've protected Ral Zarek and help vs Pox/Braids). You do have to be able to draft a good number of instants/sorceries -- I'd say you want to have 8+ in your deck. He has sat on the sideboard a couple of times due to instant/sorcery count being too low.
I included him in our cube to support the 'spells matter Izzet deck' but his best game so far was in an aggressive Rakdos deck. SO much synergy with the discard, burn and removal. The card advantage is highlighted when you're getting 1/1's off of Dark Ritual, Hymn and Tutors...
My experience with the entire "spells matters Izzet theme" is that it actually is better when you use the red part of the theme in a Rakdos build, like you mention here.
I can't wait to cast stone rain with this guy in play. Or duress. I don't need a fancy trick, I'm just over the moon to have a card that adds pressure to the disruption that is pretty necessary for aggressive cube decks in scary formats like most cubes. I can't wait to play it in a deck but I think I'm already sold on the idea of running two of them.
"Maybe not the thread for this but I’ve thought young pyromancer was over rated in cube for a long time.
It’s been in and out of my cube for years now and is currently out.
there’s decks where it’s a good card, but those decks are few and far between. You need much more spell/cantrip support than the slick shot needs to make it better than a random peice of interaction.
I think this is much better.
I believe it’s not in the MTGO cube at the moment either."
Young Pyromancer is currently out of my 360 as well. Only triggering off certain types of spells has proven to make it inconsistent. Decks still exist where it can be good/great but it feels too narrow for the current Iteration of my Cube. What do other people think now that Young P is more than a decade old?
I think it's fantastic still, and it's in zero danger of being benched. Spell heavy decks looking to clog up the board love this card, and I have no complaints about it at all.
Young Pyromancer is a good card. +1 to everything here, however it has been underperforming for me x/1s have been punished very severely by all the ping effects.
Young Pyromancer is still fine, but it lost its uncuttable status a while ago. Young Pyromancer has always been an honorary Izzet card, and now plays second fiddle to Third Path Iconoclast. Power creep also means that games tend to end faster now, which isn't great for Young Pyromancer since it wants to grind over time. In a this or that situation, I'd pick Slickshot Show-Off over Young Pyromancer in my cube, no questions asked.
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I don't understand how virtual CA is a negligible reward especially on a red 2 drop. if this makes 2 tokens then I don't see how it isn't worth it. You don't have to play spells sooner than you normally would, you can play them at your leisure and meanwhile bash for 2 (what pretty much every red 1-3 drop does anyway.) if he soaks up removal then good, that's what 2 drops are for. It seems like an excellent early drop for control, and a pretty decent dude for aggro. I haven't played with it yet, but I regularly play decks that would find this guy giving me 3-4 tokens if unchecked an on curve which is insane on a red two drop. Even just 1 token is 3 power and 2 bodies and that is uncommon for red at that cost.
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Problem is, that extra 1 power is attacking probably/potentially late enough in the game where a 1/1 grounded dude isn't relevant. Even best case scenario it's a lone extra 1/1 attacking on turn 4 the earliest.
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Luckily, red has Hellrider and Hero of Oxid Ridge that attack on turn 4 as well, so not all is lost in that scenario. And sometimes, you just cast removal on turns 3-5 and keep swinging with your extra 1/1s!
I'm not willing to discount this card without trying it myself; Guttersnipe is a card that I had to play to believe, and I'm sold on it.
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Again, this card may not be the premier 2-drop in your mono red aggro deck, but in the right shell where the 1/1s have more value than simply attacking, this card can be insane. I'm excited to test more with and find more synergies that will make this card more appreciated.
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It good. People are less willing to burn kill spells on a 2/1 that doesn't draw you tons of free cards.
Pretty much this.
And this. My favourite play yet was dropping him T2 and then Mental Misstepping a Swords to Plowshares aimed at him. Followed by a Lightning Bolt, Skullclamp and equip the turn after. There's not much better than that play using this guy. Sometimes he will do little but that's the nature of the game.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I included him in our cube to support the 'spells matter Izzet deck' but his best game so far was in an aggressive Rakdos deck. SO much synergy with the discard, burn and removal. The card advantage is highlighted when you're getting 1/1's off of Dark Ritual, Hymn and Tutors...
My experience with the entire "spells matters Izzet theme" is that it actually is better when you use the red part of the theme in a Rakdos build, like you mention here.
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"Maybe not the thread for this but I’ve thought young pyromancer was over rated in cube for a long time.
It’s been in and out of my cube for years now and is currently out.
there’s decks where it’s a good card, but those decks are few and far between. You need much more spell/cantrip support than the slick shot needs to make it better than a random peice of interaction.
I think this is much better.
I believe it’s not in the MTGO cube at the moment either."
Young Pyromancer is currently out of my 360 as well. Only triggering off certain types of spells has proven to make it inconsistent. Decks still exist where it can be good/great but it feels too narrow for the current Iteration of my Cube. What do other people think now that Young P is more than a decade old?
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