Since I've been working on a variety of expansion draft sims over the past year, I've been paying considerably more attention to the unique, gimmicky archetypes that wizards inserts into its limited environments. The vast majority of these are not powerful enough to include in normal cubes, and most fall by the wayside once the original sets are no longer available to draft. I think this is a bit of a shame, as many are really interesting and flavorful, and would make great inclusions in budget, low power, block, and/or "gimmick" cubes.
The intent behind this thread is to identify, discuss, and compartmentalize some of the more interesting, unique, and strange archetypes in magic's limited history. The hope is that the card "packages" this thread accumulates can be a resource for players to support gimmick archetypes, and even drop them fully formed into their own cubes.
The sections I've arranged below are categorized into gimmicks from sets, multiple sets/blocks (ex Zen+WWk), and any other cross-set gimmicks folks care to contribute (but don't want to generate an extra archetype thread for). Suggestions for improving the thread, and posts dropping off entire gimmicks are appreciated!
Rebels from Mercadian Masques and Time Spiral blocks.
Arcane from Kamigawa block.
Poison from Scars block.
Extort from Gatecrash/Dragon's Maze.
Heh, Modern Masters provides a decent template of ideas. The problem with this idea now that I think about it is that many of the mechanics are either too insular, too few in number, or both. The "loner" plan might work because its mostly going to be control with a few unique cards thrown in. Other archetypes might be more difficult to implement.
I'm ok with the expanded card-inclusion discussion, as many of the additional commons and uncommons were cited by limited players as optimal, in-expansion choices to support the core cards you correctly identified. I'm also interested in including tangential/support cards as these frequently comprise the gray areas between archetypes that can lead to unexpected synergies and hybrid decks.
Heh, Modern Masters provides a decent template of ideas. The problem with this idea now that I think about it is that many of the mechanics are either too insular, too few in number, or both. The "loner" plan might work because its mostly going to be control with a few unique cards thrown in. Other archetypes might be more difficult to implement.
I didn't get to participate in any MM drafts, so I'll have to go by what some of my friends report, but I heard a few similar observations, where the MM drafts' archetypes were really cookie cutter, with little to no (successful) blending between the decks wizards intended the set to support.
I don't know, it seems like the point of cube is to be more than just specific sets' archetypes jammed together. Maybe it would make more sense to pick the gimmicks from certain sets, but then find cards throughout magic's history that support those? Because you can definitely do better than Marrow Bats to support a loner theme.
Maybe it would make more sense to pick the gimmicks from certain sets, but then find cards throughout magic's history that support those? Because you can definitely do better than Marrow Bats to support a loner theme.
Undoubtedly you can find better support card throughout the history of the game, but then it's easy to get on slippery slope of optimization that often leads to the exclusion of these gimmicks in the first place. Showing the gimmicks within the context of the sets where they were released provides information on how they were meant to work. It's then a cube owners choice whether this is something they'd like to simulate in their own cube and how they'd like to tweak the gimmick with other cards.
This is more of a "remember that gimmick archetype from AVR? What cards made that work?"-thread
Ah. I've post the way my friend decided to support this before. He basically have a subset of card that he hand out to player who want to play that certain archetypes. It's not for free, though, the player will HAVE to exchange 2 of his pack (Not a total of 30 card, just 2 of his pack straight out), for it. The player can then use their remaining pick to "tune up" the deck.
He support Infect and Storm. I lost contact with him already, so he might be supporting more now.
Ah. I've post the way my friend decided to support this before. He basically have a subset of card that he hand out to player who want to play that certain archetypes. It's not for free, though, the player will HAVE to exchange 2 of his pack (Not a total of 30 card, just 2 of his pack straight out), for it. The player can then use their remaining pick to "tune up" the deck.
He support Infect and Storm. I lost contact with him already, so he might be supporting more now.
That's a really interesting concept. How did he implement it? Did the storm player sit out the first two packs?
I really enjoyed MMA draft and am thinking about a cube loosely based on the format, keeping the fun (arcane, green value) while cutting the stuff that didn't seem to work as well (giants), and adding some non-Modern legal spice.
One thing I think worked well in MMA was organizing the archetypes loosely around color pairs, with some bleed over. I'd like to increase the bleed a bit from MMA while cutting some of the bad in limited cards.
I also want to experiment with a non-singleton cube that is closer to C/Ube than my regular unpowered one.
I have an initial list, but am still figuring out how to handle multicolor because there aren't on-theme cards in some color combos.
My initial idea is to support these archetypes:
UW blink
WB rebels (anyone think of another BW limited archetype that was fun?)
UB faeries (open to options here too...)
UR "spells matter" (arcane, storm, Kiln Fiend + friends)
BR suicide/sacrifice (Blood Artist, sac outlets, etc.)
BG graveyard (Tortured Existence, dredge, scavenge, retrace, flashback)
RG suspend
RW "creatures matter" (battle cry, battalion, blood thirst)
GW tokens
GU +1/+1 counters
with additional support across colors for:
artifacts/affinity
arcane
domain
burning vengeance
spider spawning
thallids
cloudpost
I'd love to propose Innistrad's G/U self-mill gimmick, over the simic counter theme (although that's a fine archetype too). I've tossed a preliminary self-mill card list into the OP, if you're interested.
I'd love to propose Innistrad's G/U self-mill gimmick, over the simic counter theme (although that's a fine archetype too). I've tossed a preliminary self-mill card list into the OP, if you're interested.
Hmmm...those are good ideas. I wanted to include Spider Spawning and some of the self-mill cards, but I think I am going to make that a bigger theme in green and push +1/+1 counters to be a subtheme across colors. Good call. BW lifegain is a good idea too, I am going to ask my group what they think would be more fun.
I'm a much bigger fan of modular themes (a la Ninjas) than linear ones (Faeries), because the cards cross over into other decks better. That was one of the problems with MMA - half of the archetypes were linear (Splice, Giants, Faeries, Rebels, Goblins), making drafting very simple.
I'm a much bigger fan of modular themes (a la Ninjas) than linear ones (Faeries), because the cards cross over into other decks better. That was one of the problems with MMA - half of the archetypes were linear (Splice, Giants, Faeries, Rebels, Goblins), making drafting very simple.
Yeah I agree. Though I think if all the splice cards were good on their own it wouldn't be so bad. I also feel like splice has diminishing returns at some point in that an all splice deck wasn't the best. So I guess it's linearity that I can like.
That's a really interesting concept. How did he implement it? Did the storm player sit out the first two packs?
He tries two ways that I know of. The one way is that he basically sit in for a draft sectn so he'll be giving others their pack. However, this doesn't work out that well. It leads to 2 packs that the storm player can just hate draft.
What works better is the way that you mention. He'll sometimes hand out 2 random card to anyone who doesn't take the special "set" to make up for the pick. It normally works well enough.
Since I've been working on a variety of expansion draft sims over the past year, I've been paying considerably more attention to the unique, gimmicky archetypes that wizards inserts into its limited environments. The vast majority of these are not powerful enough to include in normal cubes, and most fall by the wayside once the original sets are no longer available to draft. I think this is a bit of a shame, as many are really interesting and flavorful, and would make great inclusions in budget, low power, block, and/or "gimmick" cubes.
The intent behind this thread is to identify, discuss, and compartmentalize some of the more interesting, unique, and strange archetypes in magic's limited history. The hope is that the card "packages" this thread accumulates can be a resource for players to support gimmick archetypes, and even drop them fully formed into their own cubes.
The sections I've arranged below are categorized into gimmicks from sets, multiple sets/blocks (ex Zen+WWk), and any other cross-set gimmicks folks care to contribute (but don't want to generate an extra archetype thread for). Suggestions for improving the thread, and posts dropping off entire gimmicks are appreciated!
By Expansion
Avacyn Restored
"Loner"
1 Alchemists Apprentice
1 Fettergeist
1 Lone Revenant
Black
1 Bone Splinters
1 Predators Gambit
1 Butcher Ghoul
1 Demonic Taskmaster
1 Triumph of Cruelty
1 Unhallowed Pact
1 Barter in Blood
1 Demonlord of Ashmouth
1 Driver of the Dead
1 Undead Executioner
1 Homicidal Seclusion
1 Marrow Bats
Green
1 Triumph of Ferocity
Soulbond
1 Nearheath Pilgrim
1 Silverblade Paladin
1 Spectral Gateguards
Blue
1 Wingcrafter
1 Galvanic Alchemist
1 Tandem Lookout
1 Elgaud Shieldmate
1 Stern Mentor
Red
1 Stonewright
1 Lightning Mauler
1 Hanweir Lancer
Green
1 Diregraf Escort
1 Joint Assault
1 Nightshade Peddler
1 Trusted Forcemage
1 Flowering Lumberknot
1 Geist Trappers
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 Pathbreaker Wurm
Innistrad
U/G Self Mill
1 Dream Twist
1 Deranged Assistant
1 Memory's Journey
1 Mindshrieker
1 Armored Skaab
1 Civilized Scholar
1 Curse of the Bloody Tome
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Runic Repetition
1 Stitched Drake
1 Murder of Crows
Green
1 Wreath of Geists
1 Boneyard Wurm
1 Mulch
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Splinterfright
1 Spider Spawning
Rise of the Eldrazi
Levelers
1 Caravan Escort
1 Student of Warfare
1 Ikiral Outrider
1 Knight of Cliffhaven
1 Time of Heroes
1 Hedron-Field Purists
1 Transcendent Master
1 Kabira Vindicator
Blue
1 Enclave Cryptologist
1 Skywatcher Adept
1 Coralhelm Commander
1 Hada Spy Patrol
1 Lighthouse Chronologist
1 Echo Mage
1 Venerated Teacher
1 Merfolk Skyscout
Black
1 Guul Draz Assassin
1 Zulaport Enforcer
1 Nirkana Cutthroat
Red
1 Brimstone Mage
1 Kargan Dragonlord
1 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
Green
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Beastbreaker of Bala Ged
1 Kazandu Tuskcaller
By Multi-expansion/Block
TBD
Misc Gimmicks
TBD
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Other archetypes:
Burning vengeance and secrets of the dead with flashback from INN and DKA.
Rebels from Mercadian Masques and Time Spiral blocks.
Arcane from Kamigawa block.
Poison from Scars block.
Extort from Gatecrash/Dragon's Maze.
Heh, Modern Masters provides a decent template of ideas. The problem with this idea now that I think about it is that many of the mechanics are either too insular, too few in number, or both. The "loner" plan might work because its mostly going to be control with a few unique cards thrown in. Other archetypes might be more difficult to implement.
I'm ok with the expanded card-inclusion discussion, as many of the additional commons and uncommons were cited by limited players as optimal, in-expansion choices to support the core cards you correctly identified. I'm also interested in including tangential/support cards as these frequently comprise the gray areas between archetypes that can lead to unexpected synergies and hybrid decks.
I didn't get to participate in any MM drafts, so I'll have to go by what some of my friends report, but I heard a few similar observations, where the MM drafts' archetypes were really cookie cutter, with little to no (successful) blending between the decks wizards intended the set to support.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Undoubtedly you can find better support card throughout the history of the game, but then it's easy to get on slippery slope of optimization that often leads to the exclusion of these gimmicks in the first place. Showing the gimmicks within the context of the sets where they were released provides information on how they were meant to work. It's then a cube owners choice whether this is something they'd like to simulate in their own cube and how they'd like to tweak the gimmick with other cards.
This is more of a "remember that gimmick archetype from AVR? What cards made that work?"-thread
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
RoE the Small tokens + raid bombardment
Multiple (RTR, ROE) defenders
He support Infect and Storm. I lost contact with him already, so he might be supporting more now.
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
That's a really interesting concept. How did he implement it? Did the storm player sit out the first two packs?
Zendikar
Rise of the Eldrazi
Scars of Mirrodin
Innistrad
Avacyn Restored
Return to Ravnica
Gatecrash
Dragon's Maze
Of these, the more gimmicky ones, with their signature card(s):
U/G Landfall Mill (Hedron Crab)
Auras Matter (Aura Gnarlid or Totem-Guide Hartebeest)
Kiln Fiend Aggro (Kiln Fiend)
B/R Tokens (Raid Bombardment)
Myr Mania (Myr Reservoir or Myr Battlesphere)
R/x Sacrifice (Furnace Celebration)
Lost in the Woods (Lost in the Woods)
U/G Self-Mill (Spider Spawning)
U/R Flashback (Burning Vengeance)
Mono Black (Homicidal Seclusion or Blood Artist)
5c Control (Guildgates and Gatekeepers)
One thing I think worked well in MMA was organizing the archetypes loosely around color pairs, with some bleed over. I'd like to increase the bleed a bit from MMA while cutting some of the bad in limited cards.
I also want to experiment with a non-singleton cube that is closer to C/Ube than my regular unpowered one.
I have an initial list, but am still figuring out how to handle multicolor because there aren't on-theme cards in some color combos.
My initial idea is to support these archetypes:
UW blink
WB rebels (anyone think of another BW limited archetype that was fun?)
UB faeries (open to options here too...)
UR "spells matter" (arcane, storm, Kiln Fiend + friends)
BR suicide/sacrifice (Blood Artist, sac outlets, etc.)
BG graveyard (Tortured Existence, dredge, scavenge, retrace, flashback)
RG suspend
RW "creatures matter" (battle cry, battalion, blood thirst)
GW tokens
GU +1/+1 counters
with additional support across colors for:
artifacts/affinity
arcane
domain
burning vengeance
spider spawning
thallids
cloudpost
I'd love to propose Innistrad's G/U self-mill gimmick, over the simic counter theme (although that's a fine archetype too). I've tossed a preliminary self-mill card list into the OP, if you're interested.
As for an alternate B/W themes, there's B/W life-gain/beat-down from eventide (nip gwyllion, edge of the divinity, nightsky mimic, voracious hatchling, divinity of pride) and the recent Orzhov extort mechanic...
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Hmmm...those are good ideas. I wanted to include Spider Spawning and some of the self-mill cards, but I think I am going to make that a bigger theme in green and push +1/+1 counters to be a subtheme across colors. Good call. BW lifegain is a good idea too, I am going to ask my group what they think would be more fun.
Do you think faeries is a fun UB archetype? Mainly centered around Dreamspoiler Witches, Glen Elendra Pranksters, Spellstutter Sprite, and instants/flash.
I've enjoyed playing heavy faerie lists in regular cubes. Just make sure there are enough blue/black finishers for control archetypes in the cube.
An interesting gimmick with the cards you've already listed might be U/B faerie ninjas - mistblade shinobi, throat slitter, ninja of the deep hours, okiba-gang shinobi, and walker of secret ways. If you're supporting the MM affinity archetype, there's definite crossover between faerie ninjas and "free" artifact creatures such as ornithopter, memnite, and frogmite.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Yeah I agree. Though I think if all the splice cards were good on their own it wouldn't be so bad. I also feel like splice has diminishing returns at some point in that an all splice deck wasn't the best. So I guess it's linearity that I can like.
EDIT: I put together a list. Posted here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10344035#post10344035
Please offer feedback!
He tries two ways that I know of. The one way is that he basically sit in for a draft sectn so he'll be giving others their pack. However, this doesn't work out that well. It leads to 2 packs that the storm player can just hate draft.
What works better is the way that you mention. He'll sometimes hand out 2 random card to anyone who doesn't take the special "set" to make up for the pick. It normally works well enough.
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.