Goblin Welder's an interesting card that a lot of cubes (including my own) run, that offers an interesting and unique effect in a color that doesn't usually get these sort of cube-worthy build-around-me cards.
The purpose of this thread isnt to talk about the welder, though. I'd like to discuss the artifacts of choice to abuse with Goblin Welder, cards like Wurmcoil Engine, Mindslaver & other artifacts particularly with sacrifice abilities and enter / leave the battlefield abilities.
What are some other cool cards that you guys have used with Goblin Welder?
Tangle Wire and Memory Jar are especially broken with him since they put themselves into the yard, Sundering Titan can be filthy too. Basically anything that costs more than 3 to cast if fair game with him. He also can reset Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker. The biggest problem is to get stuff into the yard or have enough artifacts in play to keep recurring. One friend of mine once called him a mini Recurring Nightmare and I agree to a certain degree, he is harder to build around and generally weaker but still a fun card.
Tangle Wire and Memory Jar are especially broken with him since they put themselves into the yard, Sundering Titan can be filthy too. Basically anything that costs more than 3 to cast if fair game with him. He also can reset Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker. The biggest problem is to get stuff into the yard or have enough artifacts in play to keep recurring. One friend of mine once called him a mini Recurring Nightmare and I agree to a certain degree, he is harder to build around and generally weaker but still a fun card.
This pretty much sums it all up, but I'll echo a few points.
Welder is a weaker Recurring Nightmare:
- He's a creature, so he dies to more removal spells
- He has summoning sickness, so he doesn't work on the turn you cast him
- He works with other artifacts instead of other creatures, which are usually less prevalent in cubes
- Red isn't nearly as good at putting good targets into the yard as black is, so you are more likely to need an extra color.
It's also extremely conditional repeated artifact removal!
From the flavour text, I always assumed that Wizards naively assumed this would be the main function of Welder. More appropriate flavour text would be "I wrecked your ashtray, boss. But look! I made you an enormous f***-off death machine!"
He can be tricky to support, but sort of straddles reanimator and Tinker decks. If both of those are viable in a cube, Welder can do good things.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
The biggest problem is to get stuff into the yard or have enough artifacts in play to keep recurring.
Red has been getting decent looting recently, with Faithless Looting already in many cubes. Threre are also colorless discard outlets (Masticores - artifacts, too!), as well as blue looting, which is probably the second color if you want to support artifacts (Tinker).
I think a regular cube with around 60 artifacts is enough to make Welder playable - no need to add suboptimal cards to make it better.
If you're going deep, you can look at Ichor Wellspring and Mycosynth Wellspring which also double as fodder for both Braids Stax decks and Tinker decks alike.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
I think you'd need to start making your cube resemble the average cube a little less and do things like play stuff that was a little off the "power level x curve x colour" beaten path. It seems super doable of you aren't squicked by breaking singleton too.
Wurmcoil Engine, Mindslaver, Sundering Titan, Memory Jar, Tangle Wire, Myr Battlesphere, Smokestack, Solemn Simulacrum and Pentavus are the best cards for abusing Goblin Welder (and I've been playing Stax for more than 10 years now...). Triskelion and Duplicant are fine additions.
EDIT: Forgot to mention Perilous Myr.
This seems to be about right. I never played Pentavus in cube, but it seems interesting.
If you're going deep, you can look at Ichor Wellspring and Mycosynth Wellspring which also double as fodder for both Braids Stax decks and Tinker decks alike.
I agree with this idea. I don't play Ichor Wellspring because it seems a bit more narrow than what I want in a cube card, but I play Mycosynth Wellspring, Pilgrim's Eye, Prophetic Prism, and Chromatic Star. These cards have seen play from time to time. They're not amazing, but they are solid role players in the decks that want them. But I have a large list (720), so take this with a grain of salt.
The purpose of this thread isnt to talk about the welder, though. I'd like to discuss the artifacts of choice to abuse with Goblin Welder, cards like Wurmcoil Engine, Mindslaver & other artifacts particularly with sacrifice abilities and enter / leave the battlefield abilities.
What are some other cool cards that you guys have used with Goblin Welder?
I think you'd need to start making your cube resemble the average cube a little less and do things like play stuff that was a little off the "power level x curve x colour" beaten path. It seems super doable of you aren't squicked by breaking singleton too.
What does your comment have to do with this discussion? ajarms902 asked for cards that interact with a specific card, and you reply "it seems super doable of you" and talk about power level and breaking singleton. I fail to see the connection.
I agree with this idea. I don't play Ichor Wellspring because it seems a bit more narrow than what I want in a cube card, but I play Mycosynth Wellspring, Pilgrim's Eye, Prophetic Prism, and Chromatic Star. These cards have seen play from time to time. They're not amazing, but they are solid role players in the decks that want them. But I have a large list (720), so take this with a grain of salt.
Ichor Wellspring is OK if you look at it as a 2 cycler, at worst, which to me seems fine as card 23 if my draft goes poorly for some reason. The reason I run it is with the aforementioned synergy with things like Greater Gargadon, Braids, Smokestack, and Tinker. It might be too narrow for most lists, but it's worked well for me so far.
EDIT: I could see it being good in Pauper lists that run Etherium Astrolabe or Thopter Foundry as well. I'm looking forward to shenanigans with Trading Post since adding that to my cube as well.
Ichor Wellspring is OK if you look at it as a 2 cycler, at worst, which to me seems fine as card 23 if my draft goes poorly for some reason.
I absolutely disagree with this approach. This is cube; cards should be awesome. I want my drafters to be agonising over their 23rd card because of leaving out something good, not feeling forced to include mediocre cards.
I do agree with including narrow cards to support an archetype, though. I think Ichor Wellspring would need to be in an environment where artefacts, sac effects and combo are very heavily pushed, though.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I absolutely disagree with this approach. This is cube; cards should be awesome. I want my drafters to be agonising over their 23rd card because of leaving out something good, not feeling forced to include mediocre cards.
I do agree with including narrow cards to support an archetype, though. I think Ichor Wellspring would need to be in an environment where artefacts, sac effects and combo are very heavily pushed, though.
Well, I feel that there's enough cards that can get extra value out of Ichor Wellspring in my cube to include it, at least until I get a couple more Swords or a Jitte or something. What I meant is that if someone doesn't find a Greater Gargadon, Braids, Smokestack, or Tinker, and their draft goes really badly, at least it's not a totally dead card.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Goblin Welder's an interesting card that a lot of cubes (including my own) run, that offers an interesting and unique effect in a color that doesn't usually get these sort of cube-worthy build-around-me cards.
The purpose of this thread isnt to talk about the welder, though. I'd like to discuss the artifacts of choice to abuse with Goblin Welder, cards like Wurmcoil Engine, Mindslaver & other artifacts particularly with sacrifice abilities and enter / leave the battlefield abilities.
What are some other cool cards that you guys have used with Goblin Welder?
http://cubetutor.playworks.cloudbees.net/viewcube/57
This pretty much sums it all up, but I'll echo a few points.
Welder is a weaker Recurring Nightmare:
- He's a creature, so he dies to more removal spells
- He has summoning sickness, so he doesn't work on the turn you cast him
- He works with other artifacts instead of other creatures, which are usually less prevalent in cubes
- Red isn't nearly as good at putting good targets into the yard as black is, so you are more likely to need an extra color.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
From the flavour text, I always assumed that Wizards naively assumed this would be the main function of Welder. More appropriate flavour text would be "I wrecked your ashtray, boss. But look! I made you an enormous f***-off death machine!"
He can be tricky to support, but sort of straddles reanimator and Tinker decks. If both of those are viable in a cube, Welder can do good things.
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Red has been getting decent looting recently, with Faithless Looting already in many cubes. Threre are also colorless discard outlets (Masticores - artifacts, too!), as well as blue looting, which is probably the second color if you want to support artifacts (Tinker).
I think a regular cube with around 60 artifacts is enough to make Welder playable - no need to add suboptimal cards to make it better.
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
This seems to be about right. I never played Pentavus in cube, but it seems interesting.
I agree with this idea. I don't play Ichor Wellspring because it seems a bit more narrow than what I want in a cube card, but I play Mycosynth Wellspring, Pilgrim's Eye, Prophetic Prism, and Chromatic Star. These cards have seen play from time to time. They're not amazing, but they are solid role players in the decks that want them. But I have a large list (720), so take this with a grain of salt.
What does your comment have to do with this discussion? ajarms902 asked for cards that interact with a specific card, and you reply "it seems super doable of you" and talk about power level and breaking singleton. I fail to see the connection.
Former DCI L2 Judge
My old Cube podcast on ManaDeprived, with Goodking and artbcnco: http://manadeprived.com/podcasts/mtgin3d/
You can find me on Twitter as well.
Ichor Wellspring is OK if you look at it as a 2 cycler, at worst, which to me seems fine as card 23 if my draft goes poorly for some reason. The reason I run it is with the aforementioned synergy with things like Greater Gargadon, Braids, Smokestack, and Tinker. It might be too narrow for most lists, but it's worked well for me so far.
EDIT: I could see it being good in Pauper lists that run Etherium Astrolabe or Thopter Foundry as well. I'm looking forward to shenanigans with Trading Post since adding that to my cube as well.
I absolutely disagree with this approach. This is cube; cards should be awesome. I want my drafters to be agonising over their 23rd card because of leaving out something good, not feeling forced to include mediocre cards.
I do agree with including narrow cards to support an archetype, though. I think Ichor Wellspring would need to be in an environment where artefacts, sac effects and combo are very heavily pushed, though.
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Well, I feel that there's enough cards that can get extra value out of Ichor Wellspring in my cube to include it, at least until I get a couple more Swords or a Jitte or something. What I meant is that if someone doesn't find a Greater Gargadon, Braids, Smokestack, or Tinker, and their draft goes really badly, at least it's not a totally dead card.