While all you said is true, Genesis only makes the maindeck for me if I'm a) the survival deck or b) I can reliable dumb the card to the yard. My normal decks have to many playables that I'm not in the Genesis hardcast business, hope that he dies somehow and grind from turn 13.
I prefer the new Hydra to Vorapede but I still don't know if this would be the right cut. I have to ask my group. It comes down to:
Hydra vs:
I think vorapede is a lot better than the other cards listed here. I'd cut genesis, then oracle, then boa. Cutting vorapede means you rob creature-light decks of a much more resilient, defensive threat for something that's all offense. I definitely wouldn't consider that like for like.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
While all you said is true, Genesis only makes the maindeck for me if I'm a) the survival deck or b) I can reliable dumb the card to the yard. My normal decks have to many playables that I'm not in the Genesis hardcast business, hope that he dies somehow and grind from turn 13.
I prefer the new Hydra to Vorapede but I still don't know if this would be the right cut. I have to ask my group. It comes down to:
Hydra vs:
He was nuts every time he wasn't answered, just like I expected. Of the games I saw since his inclusion he was Dismembered once and the other three games he won all by himself. My friends said stuff like "omg he has trample too?" "attacking as an 8/8... seems good" "I don't know how you beat this card"
Though there are a good number of ways to deal with him (maze, white and black removal... and the worst case scenario, blue kidnapping/brainwashing), he is a straight up beast if left unanswered. Trample is exactly what a guy like this needed.
I feel like he's a great addition to cube. Much better than Vorapede and probably better than Wolfir Silverheart because he doesn't need anything else, doesn't get owned with spot removal and has trample, though is much worse at blocking and doesn't give +4/+4 to another dude.
You should cut Vorapede for him. Green intensive, small butt usually ends up dying the first time, doesn't do anywhere near the amount of damage Hydra does. Good card but doesn't get the job done like Hydra.
Definitely a great addition to the cube. I still like the Vorapede though (and I did prefer Vorapede over Wolfir Silverheart) since he himself is a great efficient beater. I'd put the Vorapede and Hydra in the same tier and would put both in the top 4 green 5cc creatures.
Yes, and Birds of Paradise you can cast for G, but it produces W and R as well! The deck builds itself!
Joking aside, When it comes to synergies, I think the synergy with Reveillark and Imperial Recruiter is much more relevant than doubling counters on your other creatures. You absolutely would plan on having the printed power matter, whilst the counter doubling would be rather incidental, I assume.
For me, Vorapede is nowhere near the cutting block. It is so similar to Baneslayer Angel in how good it is at stabilizing if you have to play catch up it is not even funny. As amazing as the offensive potential of Kalonian Hydra is, it just can't replace Vorapede.
Joking aside, When it comes to synergies, I think the synergy with Reveillark and Imperial Recruiter is much more relevant than doubling counters on your other creatures. You absolutely would plan on having the printed power matter, whilst the counter doubling would be rather incidental, I assume.
Totally. I'd run Reveillark and Recruiter in any sized cube... Hydra now adds fat trampling beats to both their toolboxes (which they lacked) further increasing their value.
For me, Vorapede is nowhere near the cutting block. It is so similar to Baneslayer Angel in how good it is at stabilizing if you have to play catch up it is not even funny. As amazing as the offensive potential of Kalonian Hydra is, it just can't replace Vorapede.
Yep, Vorapede is pretty badass. In many cases I can see the guy/gal drafting Hydra will also want the Vorapede (and a Zameck Guildmage lol).
Totally. I'd run Reveillark and Recruiter in any sized cube... Hydra now adds fat trampling beats to both their toolboxes (which they lacked) further increasing their value.
True, but there is Hornet Queen. It is more in the Vorapede business of staying alive and attacking rather than in the cavalry business of charging in and winning, and it costs more mana, but it does have the nice interactions with both Reveillark and Recruiter.
On top of everything else the card has very attractive art; I love the light. It looks like the hydra is waking up in the rosy glow of dawn and thinking "Right. What's for breakfast?"
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It hits really hard. They need top topdeck removal immediately or they just die. He's lethal by himself in two swings. It's a Mill Jace speed win con (in green, so typically faster) that can block when it resolves and still gives you value if it's removed after only connecting once (and it can't be attacked to death :p). Plus, it has some fun +1/+1 counter interactions and can be tutored by Recruiter and reanimated by 'Lark. A+.
It hits really hard. They need top topdeck removal immediately or they just die. He's lethal by himself in two swings. It's a Mill Jace speed win con (in green, so typically faster) that can block when it resolves and still gives you value if it's removed after only connecting once )and it can't be attacked to death). Plus, it has some fun +1/+1 counter interactions and can be tutored by Recruiter and reanimated by 'Lark. A+.
sounds like everything I hoped for. Alter time =).
I tried it out. It's really good. I'm not cutting Vorapede for it, but I will endeavour to find it a space. Along with Savageborn and Primordial, I'm happy to have some good hydra beatdowns going on. These cards all start vulnerable but have a very narrow window before getting out of hand. I don't even run Lark or Recruiter, but the interactions there are cute too.
It's a Mill Jace speed win con (in green, so typically faster) that can block when it resolves and still gives you value if it's removed after only connecting once (and it can't be attacked to death :p). Plus, it has some fun +1/+1 counter interactions and can be tutored by Recruiter and reanimated by 'Lark. A+.
This is kinda what I am worried about, my players hated the lack of interaction with Jace 3, but I'll still give it a go because there are a lot more answers for creatures versus planeswalkers.
This is kinda what I am worried about, my players hated the lack of interaction with Jace 3, but I'll still give it a go because there are a lot more answers for creatures versus planeswalkers.
There is nothing (hyperbole) more interactive than a counterable non-hasty creature that has no protection of any sort that has to attack twice to kill you. It is no comparison to Jace 3 in the interaction department, that's for sure. Green is supposed to be the creature color, and I think this card is a step in the right direction for the color.
I compared it to Jace to illustrate the speed of the win-con, not to compare their respective interactions. I think it's a far better cube card than Mill Jace.
If Jace mills once or twice and then dies, it didn't really affect the game (well maybe in reanimator and in other rare circumstances). When this hydra swings once or twice and then dies, it still had a huge effect on the board (most likely) and the game.
Chump blocking this guy is really not an option (technically it is, but so far everytime it was chumped it looked more like a one sided wrath) which is huge for a fat green beater. Kalonian Hydra is the real deal.
Gun to my head I would cut Prime Time for Hydra. Having said that I'm actively trying to fit Prime Time in my own cube (trample + 2 lands = good times).
Would you guys cut Primeval Titan for it? I don't know what to cut on top of the curve. It's pretty tight.
If I were running your cube, I'd cut one of your 6+ drops (3 seems a bit much for a 360 cube), which would mean prime time or hornet queen... but i'd probably just cut Master of the Wild Hunt.
I'd cut the Oracle, but I'm already removing it for Elvish Mystic. So I'd do Vorapede next, because it's the most like-for-like swap.
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I think vorapede is a lot better than the other cards listed here. I'd cut genesis, then oracle, then boa. Cutting vorapede means you rob creature-light decks of a much more resilient, defensive threat for something that's all offense. I definitely wouldn't consider that like for like.
Edit: Also, someone awesomly pointed out in my thread:
Which is sweet.
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I've already cut vorapede so in order I would cut
1. Oracle
2. Boa
3. Genesis
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
I mentioned those two things page 3. Super happy to see a new fatty for Recruiter since all the hunt master follow ups were getting old.
Though there are a good number of ways to deal with him (maze, white and black removal... and the worst case scenario, blue kidnapping/brainwashing), he is a straight up beast if left unanswered. Trample is exactly what a guy like this needed.
Definitely a great addition to the cube. I still like the Vorapede though (and I did prefer Vorapede over Wolfir Silverheart) since he himself is a great efficient beater. I'd put the Vorapede and Hydra in the same tier and would put both in the top 4 green 5cc creatures.
Isn't it great that Reveillark only needs one white and Imperial Recruiter only needs one red :D.
Joking aside, When it comes to synergies, I think the synergy with Reveillark and Imperial Recruiter is much more relevant than doubling counters on your other creatures. You absolutely would plan on having the printed power matter, whilst the counter doubling would be rather incidental, I assume.
For me, Vorapede is nowhere near the cutting block. It is so similar to Baneslayer Angel in how good it is at stabilizing if you have to play catch up it is not even funny. As amazing as the offensive potential of Kalonian Hydra is, it just can't replace Vorapede.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Lol
Totally. I'd run Reveillark and Recruiter in any sized cube... Hydra now adds fat trampling beats to both their toolboxes (which they lacked) further increasing their value.
Yep, Vorapede is pretty badass. In many cases I can see the guy/gal drafting Hydra will also want the Vorapede (and a Zameck Guildmage lol).
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Think I would look at cutting genesis and prime time for this, maybe vorapede too.
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sounds like everything I hoped for. Alter time =).
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This is kinda what I am worried about, my players hated the lack of interaction with Jace 3, but I'll still give it a go because there are a lot more answers for creatures versus planeswalkers.
There is nothing (hyperbole) more interactive than a counterable non-hasty creature that has no protection of any sort that has to attack twice to kill you. It is no comparison to Jace 3 in the interaction department, that's for sure. Green is supposed to be the creature color, and I think this card is a step in the right direction for the color.
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Chump blocking this guy is really not an option (technically it is, but so far everytime it was chumped it looked more like a one sided wrath) which is huge for a fat green beater. Kalonian Hydra is the real deal.
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You have so much ramp in there I wouldn't cut anything you have at the top. Frankly I would probably look at non creature stuff.
My cut would be Bramblecrush, one of the cultivate/reach, call of the herd or a Garruk.
With all of the creature ramp you have I think more beef is warranted and the Hydra is exactly that beef.
If I were running your cube, I'd cut one of your 6+ drops (3 seems a bit much for a 360 cube), which would mean prime time or hornet queen... but i'd probably just cut Master of the Wild Hunt.
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