Depends on what your cube supports, IMO. They don't allow for the 3 color combinations of filters, but they substantially improve consistency in 2 color or fewer decks. Who doesn't want to set up a perfect curve with their duals? It's worth noting that they're the first duals that aren't strictly worse than the originals since Zendikar.
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Deceptively strong lands. While I think filters are probably better in certain color combinations like WB and WR, I can definitely see running these as 4th or 5th duals after the shocks, duals, fetches, and manlands.
That seems like an odd statement. I'd think the smaller the deck size, the better something like Scry 1 would be. As for these lands I need to play with them. I hate ETB but Scry is pretty sweet.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
I'm going to replace my remaining bouncelands with these. I love that they help reduce manaflooding or manascrew and they're also much more intuitive for lesser experienced players. No longer having to check whether an opponent's land produces two mana is also a reduction in unnessecary complexity that I'm very happy to make in my draft environment.
I think they're solid, but not really what I was looking for. Painlands are still better for aggro, Bouncelands are still better for control. But Scry 1 is really good on T1, so we'll see. I might be able to squeeze them into the control pairs for testing and see how they do. Also, in GB (which is often a midrange reanimator/combo deck) I can dig an extra card deep right off the bat to look for the outlet, the target or the spell. Pretty neat, and might be worth running in that combination for that reason alone.
Both enter the battlefield tapped and provide two colors.
The scry 1 with these could help you find another land if you need it, and the bounceland gives you a land drop for next turn as well.
The scry 1 could also help you NOT find a land if you are flooding whereas the bounceland has better synergy with things that untap lands. This seems to be the major trade-off to me: more flexibility for less combo potential. I'd give these the slight edge in most cases.
Well the bouncelands function as virtual card advantage because you can produce 6 mana off of 5 total land cards. I think that's the biggest aspect you'd be giving up by dropping them to Scry.
I think I might try it instead of Golgari Rot Farm because green gifts enough ramp chances. I also want to replace izzet boilerworks. That combos well with Ral Zarek and Upheaval. That said all of my bouncelands will get replaced when I get revised duals.
reminds me of the cycle dual I just made in the other thing. I dislike that it procs when you play it, because I like lands that are useful in unconventional areas. I do like that when you want to use the scry is an interesting decision of timing.
I think whether you run these or bouncelands for your control colors is completely dependent on how much your particular cube punishes bouncelands with land destruction and boomerang effects. Bouncelands will almost always provide more virtual card advantage. Scrylands are better turn 1 and super late game, bouncelands are better inbetween.
I don't own revised lands: my current lands in my 360 cube are shock, buddy, zen fetch, and scars. Which would be better: buddy, scry, or lands that would benefit the archtype (scry for control, pain for agro, buddy for something or another)?
I like the blue ones. In my head I see it as casting a spell that lets you scry 1 for U, and turning the land that was tapped to play the spell into a dual land. That seems powerful to me and I would gladly run them in any control or combo deck (many mid-range decks too).
Both these and the bouncelands give pseudo card advantage... but right now I'm preferring these.
I feel like these lands are amazingly mediocre, and I also think they are going to trap a lot of people into keeping iffy hands and then seeing a terrible card off the scry and just dying.
I mean, what does scry 1 really do. If you keep the card on top it does nothing except let you plan slightly better for your next turn, so if you play this on turn one and don't bottom the card it did literally nothing.
If you see a card you don't want, and you bottom it, let's see what can happen. Let's say you were digging for a 4th land, and your deck is the standard 23/17 and you are playing this on turn 3 on the draw, for ease of math. So you have seen 3 lands 7 non-lands, meaning your remaining deck is 14 lands and 16 non-lands. You drop this and see a non-land, and bottom it. You now, instead of having a 14/30 chance of drawing your land, have 14/29 chance. You have just improved your chances from 46.6% to 48.2%. Woo. Hoo. That is quite a minuscule advantage. Oh, and you also lost tempo by playing a tapped land on t3.
Now, people seem to think the dream scenario here is playing them t1, so let's see what happens there. Say you keep a 2-lander on the play, scrying on t1 to try and hit your 3rd land. Now your deck is 15 lands, 18 non-lands. Pre scry, chance of hitting your land is 45.5%, post scry, 46.8%. Again, pretty mediocre. Now obviously you have essentially pushed yourself slightly further down your deck, improving the chances of drawing a land in the later turns, which makes this slightly better, but it's still going to be a cumulative effect of like 2% per draw step.
Now, imagine you are digging for a specific type of card, like a wrath or a removal spell (assuming you have 4 of the effect in your deck), and you are talking an increase on t4 from 13.3% to 13.7%.
Now, granted, the scrying is great when you would be playing a shockland tapped anyway or something like that, but having 0 option on that front makes these IMO worse than shocks, duals, fetches, and pain lands, the upside is not nearly as high as the upside on manlands, and frankly I think the virtual CA from bouncelands, and their interaction with effects like wildfire and balance make them stronger. I could be wrong about these lands, but they just seem super underwhelming to me. I think I'd even rather have the tri-lands than these.
Better than filters?
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That's what I thought. I think people are going to underestimate these lands (just look at the Rumor Mill, it's hilarious).
Also, turn 1 Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain into turn 2 Scryland or turn 1 Scryland into turn 2 Impulse is just nasty
That seems like an odd statement. I'd think the smaller the deck size, the better something like Scry 1 would be. As for these lands I need to play with them. I hate ETB but Scry is pretty sweet.
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Yeah, nice obscure combos like this is what I like about cube.
Will probably include one of the blue aligned scryland, most likely the red one replacing Desolate Lighthouse (which does not fix mana).
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Both enter the battlefield tapped and provide two colors.
The scry 1 with these could help you find another land if you need it, and the bounceland gives you a land drop for next turn as well.
The scry 1 could also help you NOT find a land if you are flooding whereas the bounceland has better synergy with things that untap lands. This seems to be the major trade-off to me: more flexibility for less combo potential. I'd give these the slight edge in most cases.
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I would say BW wants the Filter to be able to cast all of its CC cards, but you're right for the other five.
These lands seem really powerful. I think a lot of people are drastically underestimating them.
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Both these and the bouncelands give pseudo card advantage... but right now I'm preferring these.
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I mean, what does scry 1 really do. If you keep the card on top it does nothing except let you plan slightly better for your next turn, so if you play this on turn one and don't bottom the card it did literally nothing.
If you see a card you don't want, and you bottom it, let's see what can happen. Let's say you were digging for a 4th land, and your deck is the standard 23/17 and you are playing this on turn 3 on the draw, for ease of math. So you have seen 3 lands 7 non-lands, meaning your remaining deck is 14 lands and 16 non-lands. You drop this and see a non-land, and bottom it. You now, instead of having a 14/30 chance of drawing your land, have 14/29 chance. You have just improved your chances from 46.6% to 48.2%. Woo. Hoo. That is quite a minuscule advantage. Oh, and you also lost tempo by playing a tapped land on t3.
Now, people seem to think the dream scenario here is playing them t1, so let's see what happens there. Say you keep a 2-lander on the play, scrying on t1 to try and hit your 3rd land. Now your deck is 15 lands, 18 non-lands. Pre scry, chance of hitting your land is 45.5%, post scry, 46.8%. Again, pretty mediocre. Now obviously you have essentially pushed yourself slightly further down your deck, improving the chances of drawing a land in the later turns, which makes this slightly better, but it's still going to be a cumulative effect of like 2% per draw step.
Now, imagine you are digging for a specific type of card, like a wrath or a removal spell (assuming you have 4 of the effect in your deck), and you are talking an increase on t4 from 13.3% to 13.7%.
Now, granted, the scrying is great when you would be playing a shockland tapped anyway or something like that, but having 0 option on that front makes these IMO worse than shocks, duals, fetches, and pain lands, the upside is not nearly as high as the upside on manlands, and frankly I think the virtual CA from bouncelands, and their interaction with effects like wildfire and balance make them stronger. I could be wrong about these lands, but they just seem super underwhelming to me. I think I'd even rather have the tri-lands than these.
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