If you don't support tokens, this card just seems worse than a straight x spell to the face for damage purposes. If you are supporting tokens with anthems, power modifying triggers, damage triggers, this might be the cheapest red X spell to make tokens.
If you don't support tokens, this card just seems worse than a straight x spell to the face for damage purposes. If you are supporting tokens with anthems, power modifying triggers, damage triggers, this might be the cheapest red X spell to make tokens.
Even at face value, it's kinda like Blazing your opponent when you cast it, and leaving dudes behind for additional value.
I'm going to test this card out. I was playing a Jund midrange deck last night and there were so many game states where Tempt With Vengeance would have been awesome. When evaluating the card I had tunnel visioned myself into an aggro box, but as stated before it's probably best in a ramp/token/stax deck. Not to mention being solid in an X/R control build.
That being said, I was playing a fast-ish midrange deck and there were a couple times I would have happily cast this for x=2 to curve out well and keep the pressure on. I expect this card to be a solid roleplayer in a lot of different archtypes. Can't wait to sleeve one up.
For Example turn 3 x=2 I also have a Gore-House Chainwalker, and goblin guide out. Opponent will definitely take 2 tokens to kill one of my other dudes, or block both of bigger guys and wrath the next turn.
That said this is a solid card and should be included if your decks can take advantage of it. Meaning if you think this will be better than fireball in your cube give it a look. I think if I move up to 450 and add the God of the Forge and Ogre Battledriver, this has some muscle.
I agree that scalable cards get underrated around here. There are plenty of times I am drawing too mana lands in my boros deck and laying out 5-6 hasty dudes is way better than drafting running a fatty I am not normally playing. Or when I don't draw a 3-4 drop this is very good at curve filling. And maybe more leverage for Burn at the Stake
Edit: Also spell creatures are nice in the spells matter deck with Young Pyromancer, Guttersnipe, Chandra etc.
i dont see how this card can lose you value, except in fringe cases. Id be fine with getting 6 1/1s with haste and sacing my goblin guide.
i dont see how this card can lose you value, except in fringe cases. Id be fine with getting 6 1/1s with haste and sacing my goblin guide.
I was mostly thinking fringe cases where you have no anthems and you need some of your larger guys to get through to finish them, in which case they might get one extra turn vs. an X spell. But as magic and cubes move more to creatures matter you will usually be better off with the snakes.
I view this card in the same way I do Squee; In that it might not be the best card in a vacuum, but damn does it interact with a ton of cards! People who are saying "Are three 1/1's for 4 worth it?", need to realize how nasty this card curves out with Red's four drops. Purphorose, Hero, and Hell Rider all make this card lethal!
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Unpowered Cube, work in progress, but getting there!
Piloted a URg tempo deck last night and would have gladly included this card with absolutely zero token support. Flexibility is everything. Tempt With Vengeance is going to see play in every deck that can produce R. It wont always be amazing or have a combo piece to back it up for an instawin, but I expect it to do very well in a cube environment. Just a thought.
This strikes me as a good cube card: strong enough in a vacuum to make the grade but offers a lot of synergies in a red-based tokens/spells matter theme.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Got to see this played in an Izzet deck last night. It was always really sweet when X=3 or more. And then the Master of Waves hit the field and things got crazy. It was also remarked that the card was incredibly fun to play with.
I'm TEMPTED to re-visit this card. Tokens are on the rise and Chanda, Torch of Defiance has been revolutionary to Red, IME. Over the past 18 months we've gotten new anthems like Drana, Nissa, and Angel of Invention, token generators with P&K Nalaar, Nissa, and Angel of Invention, new Chandra and Regal Behemoth for ramp, vehicles that naturally fits with tokens. Anybody still rocking out with Tempt With Vengeance these days?
It's a fine card, and it's never far from re-inclusion. Subterranean Tremors has been my new favorite red XR spell, despite them not really competing for the same slots...
I've thought about it lots of times to go with this mostly RW tokens deck that's just sort of naturally available in my cube. I feel like if I add it, I need to also add another sweeper effect. The Boros / Mardu tokens deck is already really good.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
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I was never a fan, after I tried it out for a couple drafts and the chump blockers off the tempting offer were relevant multiple times. I could see giving it another try as I dial up the token support.
Good card, but doesn't really have a home in my cube. It's an ok 23rd playable as an mana sink in a big ramp deck, fine in red agro if you have like a sol ring or a mana crypt.. forced to play 17 lands for whatever reason. Was at it's best in aristocrats (my cube).
But overall, it wasn't highly sought after in any particular archetype and I cut it for more archetype specific cards.. I think in lowered powered cubes with a multi-color token support theme it would be phenomenal. For a higher powered cube, this cards individual power level is there, but token payoff in red... isnt.. The strategy is inferrior to being as aggressive as possible.
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Ah
Even at face value, it's kinda like Blazing your opponent when you cast it, and leaving dudes behind for additional value.
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That being said, I was playing a fast-ish midrange deck and there were a couple times I would have happily cast this for x=2 to curve out well and keep the pressure on. I expect this card to be a solid roleplayer in a lot of different archtypes. Can't wait to sleeve one up.
Man. Cubes are changing fast these days!
i dont see how this card can lose you value, except in fringe cases. Id be fine with getting 6 1/1s with haste and sacing my goblin guide.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
Elesh Norn?
thats not fair
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
I was mostly thinking fringe cases where you have no anthems and you need some of your larger guys to get through to finish them, in which case they might get one extra turn vs. an X spell. But as magic and cubes move more to creatures matter you will usually be better off with the snakes.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
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But overall, it wasn't highly sought after in any particular archetype and I cut it for more archetype specific cards.. I think in lowered powered cubes with a multi-color token support theme it would be phenomenal. For a higher powered cube, this cards individual power level is there, but token payoff in red... isnt.. The strategy is inferrior to being as aggressive as possible.
It's a good card.
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