Anyone done further testing with this since it came out?
I'm starting to regret not buying one for my cube binder when the price was lower.
I don't think the recent constructed success of the master has made it any better for cube. Perhaps if you heavily support blue tempo, and even then I'm skeptical with so much other removal in non-red colors.
Won't work in my cube configuration, just not enough options to get my devotion high enough.
Look at the standard deck and how much blue mana symbols you can drop down with consistancy. You really need to be able to build a deck like that to make this dude worth the cube slot.
Most of the blue creatures in my cube have just one U mana symbol. Just won't work unless I add other duders with UU or UUU in with him, and that will hurt playing multicolour decks.
I really like this card but I think you can get more use out of Talrand. And he has been a cut for me. I think I would play him at about 540. The trouble with the Master is get enough 1 and 2 drop permanents so I am not sure a bigger cube would be a place for him either.
At 1 I play Delver and Cloudfin, two choices that are pretty unpopular here. Plus the Cryptologist who is great.
At 2 we have Augur of Bolas, Omenspeker, Loot Il Kor, Waterfront bouncer, Snapcaster etc. Not exactly an aggressive force to beat the band with.
At 3 Lots of choices here Aether Adept, Clique, Kira and mana more
At 4 More good choices but don't you want to be casting the master already?
I have a feeling the in cube he will frequently be getting 3 tokens for 8 power if you are willing to drop him somewhere between turn 4-6. Not good enough
2 i would say. 4 2/1s is pretty amazing for 4. i glanced over this card before, thinking itwas good but i wasnt searching for a 4 drop in blue.
Blue seems to be very easy to get the devotion required to make this good. a single blue planeswalker of which i cube 5 mono color UU ones makes this great.
Ive been looking at my blue games and regularly have 3-4 devotion out, because while its true blue doesn't have that many mana symbols on permanents it protects them pretty darn well.
This is a ridiculously good card, just not for this format. Until you can run blue-based aggressive decks in cube that maximise their blue mana symbols on permanents they play this isn't going to be any good - ie never. If it was any other colour, it would probably be great. Yeah, it's relatively vulnerable but so are Oracle of Mul Daya and Master of the Wild Hunt . This guy at least has an insane best case scenario to make up for it.
This is a ridiculously good card, just not for this format. Until you can run blue-based aggressive decks in cube that maximise their blue mana symbols on permanents they play this isn't going to be any good - ie never. If it was any other colour, it would probably be great. Yeah, it's relatively vulnerable but so are Oracle of Mul Daya and Master of the Wild Hunt . This guy at least has an insane best case scenario to make up for it.
his average case scenario is 4 2/1s. vulnerable 2/1's but still.
I don't think any blue card has been able to clog the ground as efficiently as this guy does for just four mana. It's truly a unique effect that you normally only see in green or white.
im definitely grabbing one as soon as i can.. he is the real deal, so sad i missed him, but i really didnt expect a blue 4 drop creature to make it in, so justbrushed over him.
It's very rare that blue based decks wants a very fragile 4-drop. It's good with opposition and anthems, but else I don't really see this card in cube.
I agree. I doesn't excite me for cube. It can add a bunch of power, but some of it is 'locked up' in the Master who basically can't attack or block, and one removal will do for all the creatures. It has to be used in mono-U aggro to be fully effective, unlike Thassa who doesn't care so much about the devotion aspect.
most blue permanents i have on the battlefield make master of waves worth it, most have UU in their cost. the pure efficiency in the average case scenario is amazing. worst case scenario of course is 2 2/1s for 4 at sorcery speed, which isn't terrible.
Maybe Vendilion Clique into this thing is already good enough. May test it.
I don't think so. You sound like you are banking on them appearing in the same draft, getting drafted by the same player, and both showing up in the same game. I wouldn't add cards to my cube with that line of thought.
Really? Of the 15 blue permanents I play that cost less than 4 mana, only 2 of them have UU in the cost. And 3 of the others have 0 blue symbols.
While I agree with you on this cards cube strength, I also think you might be a bit lower on this measure than most. I run both Kira and AEther Adept (both of which are run in just over half the cubes here) to bring my total to 4 permanents with UU that cost less than 4. Not great at all, but twice yours.
It seems that Master requires you to sandbag. The number of permanents in my cube with UU at 4 or less almost triples to 11. Perhaps we should be evaluating Master as a 5 drop - which makes him an even harder sell.
The WCS on this card isn't based on how many dudes it makes, but how they all vanish to a single removal spell.
This is exactly how I feel. I run a ton of spot removal and it is terrible against Ratchet Bomb, Explosives, Deed, Pyroclasm, etc, etc. If I happen to open one, then I'll test it cause why not. But I certainly would not buy or trade for him at $20+.
I like and support blue tempo and I still can't see this card making the cut. He dies to all sorts of removal, and he doesn't guarantee a sizable board presence all on his own.
I don't see why this card is getting all this attention all of a sudden. It won a Pro Tour, yes, but that doesn't change the card fundamentally. Master of Waves simply doesn't hold up in the Cube environment, plain and simple, when compared to Blue's other 4-drops, all of which are legitimately more powerful than it.
With Identity Nemesis being a thing, is anyone who's not currently running the UU tempo support creatures considering adding them in as a blue "tempo devotion" package and using Master and Thassa, God of the Sea alongside them? Before Nemesis was spoiled, I wasn't really considering it, but it seems much more doable now all of the sudden. I may swap out the artifact.dec for a blue devotion tempo package for a while and see how it goes. Bring in Coralhelm Commander, Æther Adept, Identity Nemesis and Master of Waves all at the same time. Seems like it could be fun.
I don't think the recent constructed success of the master has made it any better for cube. Perhaps if you heavily support blue tempo, and even then I'm skeptical with so much other removal in non-red colors.
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Look at the standard deck and how much blue mana symbols you can drop down with consistancy. You really need to be able to build a deck like that to make this dude worth the cube slot.
Most of the blue creatures in my cube have just one U mana symbol. Just won't work unless I add other duders with UU or UUU in with him, and that will hurt playing multicolour decks.
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At 1 I play Delver and Cloudfin, two choices that are pretty unpopular here. Plus the Cryptologist who is great.
At 2 we have Augur of Bolas, Omenspeker, Loot Il Kor, Waterfront bouncer, Snapcaster etc. Not exactly an aggressive force to beat the band with.
At 3 Lots of choices here Aether Adept, Clique, Kira and mana more
At 4 More good choices but don't you want to be casting the master already?
I have a feeling the in cube he will frequently be getting 3 tokens for 8 power if you are willing to drop him somewhere between turn 4-6. Not good enough
Yet, i wouldn't cube him. Devotion to blue is probably the hardest to attain in cube, unless you reslly push blue aggro.
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Blue seems to be very easy to get the devotion required to make this good. a single blue planeswalker of which i cube 5 mono color UU ones makes this great.
Ive been looking at my blue games and regularly have 3-4 devotion out, because while its true blue doesn't have that many mana symbols on permanents it protects them pretty darn well.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
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his average case scenario is 4 2/1s. vulnerable 2/1's but still.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
The WCS on this card isn't based on how many dudes it makes, but how they all vanish to a single removal spell.
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I don't think so. You sound like you are banking on them appearing in the same draft, getting drafted by the same player, and both showing up in the same game. I wouldn't add cards to my cube with that line of thought.
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While I agree with you on this cards cube strength, I also think you might be a bit lower on this measure than most. I run both Kira and AEther Adept (both of which are run in just over half the cubes here) to bring my total to 4 permanents with UU that cost less than 4. Not great at all, but twice yours.
It seems that Master requires you to sandbag. The number of permanents in my cube with UU at 4 or less almost triples to 11. Perhaps we should be evaluating Master as a 5 drop - which makes him an even harder sell.
This is exactly how I feel. I run a ton of spot removal and it is terrible against Ratchet Bomb, Explosives, Deed, Pyroclasm, etc, etc. If I happen to open one, then I'll test it cause why not. But I certainly would not buy or trade for him at $20+.
Which is the opposite of what makes him competitive in standard.
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Other than that, it just feels meh
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