Not that it would be cube worthy but I was talking with a friend last night about how cool it would be if they finished the Guide cycle. I would love to see a red, blue, and black version of Griffin and Elephant Guide.
Aggressively costed bestow. I made 2 or 3 in the "print this wizards" thread, and any iteration of those would be wonderful.
Enemy manlands!
Given how conservatively even the cheapest of the Bestow creatures (like Hopeful Eidolon) were costed, I think the best we can hope for is a vanilla 1/1 for 1 with bestow 2, which isn't exactly great.
Enemy manlands seem unlikely too given that they've said they're going to finish out the cycle of Temples.
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They were super conservative in the first set and none of them are constructed format breaking. This should open up design space for some good ones.
The cards in BNG are decided long before WotC gets tournament results back for Theros, other than for really emergency last-ditch changes which are nearly always VERY conservatively costed (Archangel's Light). So if they make no tournament impact, it's probably too late to change that for the next sets. Boon Satyr is doing very well, however.
If they didn't know they weren't constructed format before release then the design space is open too late, correct?
Undying got better in the second set, so did battlecry, so maybe... just maybe.
Bestow would seem best in aggro and midrange so i want a bestow aggro 1 drop, and a midrange monster ala batterskull.
I also want a p1p1 Enchantment that is just an enchantment.
Dude, calm down. Your faux exasperation is unwarranted here. This:
They were super conservative in the first set and none of them are constructed format breaking. This should open up design space for some good ones.
Implies that you thought they would look at Theros, decide that they had maybe overcosted bestow, and make it cheaper. I'm just pointing out that that is sadly probably not the case, unless my understanding of WotC's timescales are wrong, as the cards are more-or-less set in stone by now. I think it goes without saying we would all love a really aggressive Bestow beater. It's a super mechanic and more flexible aggro creatures are always welcome. So, it's cool
@Goodking: I understand. I was just responding to the OP. We've seen pushed mechanics in follow-up sets before, so it's not impossible. They could've made the conscious choice to put midrange/control bestow cards in the first set, and save aggro ones for now. I don't know. All I know is that there weren't examples of pushed ones in the first set (maybe because they didn't want great bestow creatures with all the 2-power 1-drops in the same set?) and I'd like to see them now.
Quote from OP »
...what we're hoping for in the set...
I'm hoping for pushed bestow, good multicolor gods and, as always, enemy manlands.
Honestly I think a rare 2-4 drop rare is whar we are looking at in cube for bestow. Anything else will be over costed.
I hope it isnt green if its a 4 or 5 drop for either mode
Id like black or white to be the breakout bestow drop, like a black 5 drop bestow would be awesome. Bestow screams, "you can wrath the board buddy, i'll be ok."
there is no non-onedrop(i guess non aggro) that i want with bestow in green. Bestow 6 is sad because we need a good green 6 drop
Bestow 5 competes with greens ridiculous 5 drops
Green's 4 drops are once again pretty awesome.
red would only want a sick 1 drop that was already sick by itself.
Blue hates creatures.
Wait a bestow clone would be pretty sick. Enchanted creature becomes a copy of another target creature
I want bestow clone for... 4 realistically, 3 in magical dream world.
Iroas and Xenagos (RW and RG gods) are in this set, per the revealed artwork. That means likely Kruphix (GU) Phenax (UB) and Athreos (WB) are in as well, matching the 5 Temples in Theros. The other 5 gods are in JIN.
I am looking for good 3-drop creatures, that seems to be the weakest spot. Well, one drops ofcourse too, but we just got plenty, not sure if they are gonna do more the next set.
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More one drops
Slam-dunk bestow creatures
Interesting designs, hopefully some "engine" cards like Crystal Shard or Recurring Nightmare
I'm hoping for some cool bestow guys that are well costed, and maybe some cool, cheap hexproof guys, so I can add a suite of them as a new archetype to my cube.
I want a card that unlocks a whole new archetype in my cube; an archetype that rewards a player for boldness during the draft, and subtlety during gameplay. I want a card that does not just challenge our understanding of the game that is magic, but that brings into question our understanding of the universe and the fundamental interconnectedness of all things. I want a card that is not so much a metaphor for the human condition, but is so elegantly and subtly designed that the human condition becomes a metaphor for Cube drafting.
Failing that, a green aggro 1-drop with bestow would be just dandy.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I want a card that unlocks a whole new archetype in my cube; an archetype that rewards a player for boldness during the draft, and subtlety during gameplay. I want a card that does not just challenge our understanding of the game that is magic, but that brings into question our understanding of the universe and the fundamental interconnectedness of all things. I want a card that is not so much a metaphor for the human condition, but is so elegantly and subtly designed that the human condition becomes a metaphor for Cube drafting.
Basic Island?:trollface:
(just kidding, I really liked your post :))
What do I want from Born of the Gods... how about a playable GW, UR, and/or BG god? I don't have anything specific in mind, but I would like to be surprised. (And yeah, a few more aggro 1-drops would be fine as well.)
Multicolor gods could use hybrid mana and be templated like "As long as your devotion to X or Y is..."
But I'm not sure if they've ever started a set with gold cards and then introduced hybrids halfway through.
They seem to be pushing red tokens a bit, so who knows, maybe we'll get a human or satyr version of Siege-Gang Commander.
Do you still even play standard or modern ever? Bad control players will always complain about control being nerfed until the good control players brew up, and start winning tournaments. After years of overpowered counters, getting one that competes is a long shot. One of the best counters ever, Mental Misstep, was very recently printed and was a mistake. As for a cubeable draw spells, that is possible, but the competition is fierce.
Yep. Snapcaster, Vendillion Clique, even Restoration Angel are good cards. They are also creatures. Which is kind of my point.
That's why i said "actual" control decks. The kind of decks that control the game. My grief comes from even the so-called control decks like the one you linked trying to overpower the board instead of winning on the stack.
Creatureless control may not be a thing for some time in the future. Not to say never. But that's not the same as control being dead. It has often taken myriad forms. As for the Teachings deck, that has been a presence in Modern even up to recent times, in the form of Esper teachings and its variants. I don't share your pessimism. What you are lamenting is creatureless draw-go control. Even then, there are combo decks still everywhere in most formats where creatures are just providing ancillary roles or not really there at all. It sounds like you have an irrational hang-up on playing creatures for some reason
Good control cards that i would look for: Card draw, counterspells, discard, a freaking 3 mana Stone Rain ...
3 mana LD is quite possibly dead, I'll grant you that. But LD has never been a key feature of control decks! With the improvement of creatures, printing the low cost LD would break aggro. WotC also considers it unfun, which is a fair assessment. I used to enjoy playing LD-Sligh, but I'm OK with those days being over for good. Things change and that's fine.
Today's discard is extremely good. We got Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize in recent sets, both of which see play everywhere.
Counterspells have indeed been weakened, and that seems to be your main complaint here. WotC are obviously pushing for Cancels with upside, as that card is about half a mana too overcosted. Cancel and its variants have seen play in standard in the past and will do so again, but the most successful recent counterspell come back was Mana Leak. I also wouldn't rule out Force Spike. The power of counters is edging higher again though, as Cancel is too low while Counterspell is too high.
So how many new counters or card draw spells made your cube list recently? And, just for comparison, how many 2-power onedrops? You know, because we were sorely lacking those...
Historically, counters and draw spells were extremely high-powered, so the competition is very tough to crack in a 360, where half the draw spells and counterspells are basically rightly un-reprintable. It has taken a long time for WotC to work out what it is doing regarding the relative power-levels of different card types. And the more 2-power one-drops, the better. I still don't have enough of them.
But sure, i am probably imagining all this because i am a "bad player" and non-creature spells are just as potent as they were everytime. Also, there is absolutely no power creep localized to creatures.
I have no idea how good you are. I never denied what you call 'power creep' on creatures. Creatures have definitely increased in power over the course of the game's history, and little wonder compared to the utter dross that creatures were in the early-mid days. Creatures are generally now at a correct power level for the investment you make in playing them, although there have been some very pushed ones like the Titans, Snapcaster (a very good control card btw) and others. I see WotC making an effect to reign that in a bit in the most recent sets. Thragtusk is my least favourite example, and the guaranteed value is just crazy. The proliferation of hexproof creatures seems like a more fair complaint too. For the best part of the history of the game, creatures have had insufficient impact for the cost.
Of course there is. And it's not likely to change anytime soon. WotC/MaRo openly wrote in articles about how they dislike when Timmy is sad after his Leviathan got countered and how NWO is going to help out there.
That doesn't really have an impact on control decks. You still still brew creative control decks. If you want a specifically creatureless build, go out and make one. Turbofog or something. The metagame is usually healthy enough that all archetypes are viable, and you can always play the surprise game with a rogue deck.
Eh. And thus endeth the rant. For now. Will probably be back once we have the BNG spoiler with 4 more new 2/2s for 1 mana and another new and exciting Cancel variant.
Cheer up! If your focus is cube you already have the broken tools for control anyway. Even the mistakes like JtMS are here to stay in cube, and that's one of the best control cards in my cube.
Mon gars Wafo-Tapa can usually be replied upon to brew some interesting decks. However... that Mono-U Master aggro deck that cropped up everywhere alongside the Esper builds seemed too obvious a build to have not been caught by the FFL, let alone the mono-B and mono-G builds, seeing as it's basically printed right there on the cards. I would predict some strong devotion answers in the next block.
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Given how conservatively even the cheapest of the Bestow creatures (like Hopeful Eidolon) were costed, I think the best we can hope for is a vanilla 1/1 for 1 with bestow 2, which isn't exactly great.
Enemy manlands seem unlikely too given that they've said they're going to finish out the cycle of Temples.
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Also, good multicolor gods would be great for the cube. Devotion is much easier to reach when all your permanents can contribute to it.
And the manland request was obviously a joke dude. *whoosh*
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The cards in BNG are decided long before WotC gets tournament results back for Theros, other than for really emergency last-ditch changes which are nearly always VERY conservatively costed (Archangel's Light). So if they make no tournament impact, it's probably too late to change that for the next sets. Boon Satyr is doing very well, however.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I hope to see good aggro bestow creatures. Jeez.
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Undying got better in the second set, so did battlecry, so maybe... just maybe.
Bestow would seem best in aggro and midrange so i want a bestow aggro 1 drop, and a midrange monster ala batterskull.
I also want a p1p1 Enchantment that is just an enchantment.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
Implies that you thought they would look at Theros, decide that they had maybe overcosted bestow, and make it cheaper. I'm just pointing out that that is sadly probably not the case, unless my understanding of WotC's timescales are wrong, as the cards are more-or-less set in stone by now. I think it goes without saying we would all love a really aggressive Bestow beater. It's a super mechanic and more flexible aggro creatures are always welcome. So, it's cool
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
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I'm hoping for pushed bestow, good multicolor gods and, as always, enemy manlands.
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I hope it isnt green if its a 4 or 5 drop for either mode
Id like black or white to be the breakout bestow drop, like a black 5 drop bestow would be awesome. Bestow screams, "you can wrath the board buddy, i'll be ok."
there is no non-onedrop(i guess non aggro) that i want with bestow in green. Bestow 6 is sad because we need a good green 6 drop
Bestow 5 competes with greens ridiculous 5 drops
Green's 4 drops are once again pretty awesome.
red would only want a sick 1 drop that was already sick by itself.
Blue hates creatures.
Wait a bestow clone would be pretty sick. Enchanted creature becomes a copy of another target creature
I want bestow clone for... 4 realistically, 3 in magical dream world.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
Devotion based multicolor?? Seems harder to template...
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I am looking for good 3-drop creatures, that seems to be the weakest spot. Well, one drops ofcourse too, but we just got plenty, not sure if they are gonna do more the next set.
More one drops
Slam-dunk bestow creatures
Interesting designs, hopefully some "engine" cards like Crystal Shard or Recurring Nightmare
Failing that, a green aggro 1-drop with bestow would be just dandy.
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(just kidding, I really liked your post :))
What do I want from Born of the Gods... how about a playable GW, UR, and/or BG god? I don't have anything specific in mind, but I would like to be surprised. (And yeah, a few more aggro 1-drops would be fine as well.)
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But I'm not sure if they've ever started a set with gold cards and then introduced hybrids halfway through.
They seem to be pushing red tokens a bit, so who knows, maybe we'll get a human or satyr version of Siege-Gang Commander.
Also, http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10694764&postcount=6
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Creatureless control may not be a thing for some time in the future. Not to say never. But that's not the same as control being dead. It has often taken myriad forms. As for the Teachings deck, that has been a presence in Modern even up to recent times, in the form of Esper teachings and its variants. I don't share your pessimism. What you are lamenting is creatureless draw-go control. Even then, there are combo decks still everywhere in most formats where creatures are just providing ancillary roles or not really there at all. It sounds like you have an irrational hang-up on playing creatures for some reason
3 mana LD is quite possibly dead, I'll grant you that. But LD has never been a key feature of control decks! With the improvement of creatures, printing the low cost LD would break aggro. WotC also considers it unfun, which is a fair assessment. I used to enjoy playing LD-Sligh, but I'm OK with those days being over for good. Things change and that's fine.
Today's discard is extremely good. We got Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize in recent sets, both of which see play everywhere.
Counterspells have indeed been weakened, and that seems to be your main complaint here. WotC are obviously pushing for Cancels with upside, as that card is about half a mana too overcosted. Cancel and its variants have seen play in standard in the past and will do so again, but the most successful recent counterspell come back was Mana Leak. I also wouldn't rule out Force Spike. The power of counters is edging higher again though, as Cancel is too low while Counterspell is too high.
Historically, counters and draw spells were extremely high-powered, so the competition is very tough to crack in a 360, where half the draw spells and counterspells are basically rightly un-reprintable. It has taken a long time for WotC to work out what it is doing regarding the relative power-levels of different card types. And the more 2-power one-drops, the better. I still don't have enough of them.
I have no idea how good you are. I never denied what you call 'power creep' on creatures. Creatures have definitely increased in power over the course of the game's history, and little wonder compared to the utter dross that creatures were in the early-mid days. Creatures are generally now at a correct power level for the investment you make in playing them, although there have been some very pushed ones like the Titans, Snapcaster (a very good control card btw) and others. I see WotC making an effect to reign that in a bit in the most recent sets. Thragtusk is my least favourite example, and the guaranteed value is just crazy. The proliferation of hexproof creatures seems like a more fair complaint too. For the best part of the history of the game, creatures have had insufficient impact for the cost.
That doesn't really have an impact on control decks. You still still brew creative control decks. If you want a specifically creatureless build, go out and make one. Turbofog or something. The metagame is usually healthy enough that all archetypes are viable, and you can always play the surprise game with a rogue deck.
Cheer up! If your focus is cube you already have the broken tools for control anyway. Even the mistakes like JtMS are here to stay in cube, and that's one of the best control cards in my cube.
Indeed
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
think you got the username wrong. Eidolon hasn't posted in this thread.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979