We got to draft with Kiora in my 540 powered on Friday. She only showed up in one draft & my neighbor got her second pick of the draft and was able to build around her. The player is an experienced Cuber and a very good Magic player. I got to watch parts of the matches she was in and it looked like she was doing some work. I'll let his tweets about her speak for his experiences:
Tonight we tested Kiora in #mtgcube and I'm already confident that it is the new best card in Simic.
Example opening against RB was t1 Heirarch, t2 GSZ for wall of roots, t3 Kiora. She did Maze of Ith impersonation until 6 drops came online
I never managed to ultimate Kiora, but BR player had to spend burn to keep her down.
Next round against BW aggro I played t3 Kiora to lock down evil's Soltari Monk and survive until Prime Time took over.
I did get Kiora early to build around. But I'm pretty sure if I was green ramp I'd go into Blue to play her.
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I love testing almost every new walker that gets spoiled because it's tricky to judge how they will actually play. I was so focused on her being a double explore (an average Cube card at best) versus her being a constant Maze of Ith (a very good Cube card). As an aside to cards that I'm glad I tested I still (happily) play Ashiok and that's a card that most people didn't test or have already cut. It won me a match the other night. I think it's worth testing almost every walker in every Cube at 450 or higher to see if it fits in your environment. Early indications are that Kiora will fit in my 540.
She did Maze of Ith impersonation until 6 drops came online
This is the first thing I thought of when I saw Kiora. She comes off to me as a pw with a very solid way of protecting herself while boosting her loyalty, to either threaten her (somewhat mediocre) ultimate or use her second ability whenever you're ahead. I don't know if she's #1 in Simic, but I'm definitely going to make room for her.
This is the first thing I thought of when I saw Kiora. She comes off to me as a pw with a very solid way of protecting herself while boosting her loyalty, to either threaten her (somewhat mediocre) ultimate or use her second ability whenever you're ahead. I don't know if she's #1 in Simic, but I'm definitely going to make room for her.
How is her ult Mediocre? It has immediate board presence and is next to impossible to stop barring Moat. I'd be hard pressed to lose after resolving her ult.
This 'walker looks better and better to me the more I think about it. It's not stellar against aggro, but that's okay because the rest of your UG midrange deck will be. Where she needs to be good is in the control matchup, and honestly ...I think she's a good card against control. The + ability is good against isolated threats, the card and tempo advantage - ability is great for midrange vs control, and the ultimate is both obtainable and crushing to a defending control player. She'll be solid in the midrange mirror too, when you can functionally remove their biggest threat and force bad attacks to keep her loyalty down.
A 3rd loyalty would've been gold, but I think she's probably better than a lot of people in this thread predict.
So, i think i mis-evaluated this because I've been wanting a ramp walker for forever. I feel like in practice more often then not she will be +1ing until ultimating, rather then exploring at all. A maze of ith that has the possibility of winning the game for me, a 9/9 kraken being the largest creature in my cube is pretty good. Im still not sure its super strong, but i will definitely test it now.
This 'walker looks better and better to me the more I think about it. It's not stellar against aggro, but that's okay because the rest of your UG midrange deck will be. Where she needs to be good is in the control matchup, and honestly ...I think she's a good card against control. The + ability is good against isolated threats, the card and tempo advantage - ability is great for midrange vs control, and the ultimate is both obtainable and crushing to a defending control player. She'll be solid in the midrange mirror too, when you can functionally remove their biggest threat and force bad attacks to keep her loyalty down.
A 3rd loyalty would've been gold, but I think she's probably better than a lot of people in this thread predict.
I would have liked either a 3rd loyalty or the ability to target any other permanent rather than just opponents' stuff. So you wouldn't be able to make her invulnerable, but you could protect another walker for a turn or give yourself an invincible blocker.
Either way though, she definitely merits testing. The real question is, what gets cut? UG is pretty tight. You probably cut Simic Sky Swallower, but that leaves you one less Natural Order/Reanimate/Show and Tell target.
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SSS would probably be the cut, but I'd have to replace the effect with another (hopefully new) green fatty for the reasons you mentioned.
Is there anything wrong with the ones that we already have? I think that Terastodon / Craterhoof Behemoth would be a fine replacement until we get a better one.
@ kingneb - thx for the feedback, very useful info. i also think she'll be better in practice then in theory. (my only beef w/ kiora is why the heck doesnt she start w/ 3 loyalty?!) i'm also w/ you in the ashiok camp, thats 1 sickass planeswalker!
Is there anything wrong with the ones that we already have? I think that Terastodon / Craterhoof Behemoth would be a fine replacement until we get a better one.
No, nothing's particularly wrong with them, I'd just prefer a new Tier 1 green fatty. If push comes to shove, I can find one (probably Pelakka Wurm or Terastadon) until another one gets printed.
I think this is a solid planeswalker, despite being less than stellar against aggro. It is a very good fit in U/G midrange or ramp or control decks and I'm more than happy to remove SSS to try it out for a bit. I was unsure on it but the ulti is so strong and pretty attainable that I have to try it!
Man, I think they would have to print a cheaper and equally effective counterspell creature for me to ever consider cutting mystic snake. I have locked so many players out of the game with portal or shard and don't think I could cube without being able to do that.
Agreed. I like the new 'walker more than most people, I think, but Mystic Snake is not my cut for her.
I agree. Ive cut SSS for it. It showed up last night. It was played into an open board, ticked up and the Kraken's were unleashed! I think its plenty good enough for a medium sized non powered cube for sure.
I couldn't imagine cutting SSS. It's such a powerhouse and plays well with Natural Order, in addition to giving simic ramp "exclusive" access to a game winning fatty. I had previously cut Mystic Snake for Shardless Agent as an experiment. I will be cutting the Agent for Kiora.
Edric is completely solid, no risk of getting cut there. Trygon predator is a metagame decision. There are too many broken enchantments (not to mention broken artifacts) that have too few answers already. Progenitor Mimic is in there for "fun" reasons and because I love the effect. Crazy things happen and it's usually enjoyable or interesting regardless of what side of the table you're on. Shardless Agent was good for a while and I'm upset to cut him, but a cut will have to be made somewhere in order to test Kiora.
I understand the bonkers interactions Mystic Snake provides, but I found the casting cost far too restrictive and you could generally see it coming a mile away. In addition to that, nobody in my playgroup really has any attachment to the snake, so it was an easy decision.
I would cut Simic Charm for Kiora, but when I go down to 450 cards Simic Charm is leaving anyway. I'm torn between cutting Edric (who hasn't seen much play) or SSS (which is a fave but could be replaced by the addition of another fatty in green). Predator and Snake are pretty untouchable in this guild.
Yup! I'm sure the commissions are already piling up for alters...I've also seen it referred to as the 'Bertoncini' planeswalker:
A merfolk that casts 2 Explores.
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Tonight we tested Kiora in #mtgcube and I'm already confident that it is the new best card in Simic.
Example opening against RB was t1 Heirarch, t2 GSZ for wall of roots, t3 Kiora. She did Maze of Ith impersonation until 6 drops came online
I never managed to ultimate Kiora, but BR player had to spend burn to keep her down.
Next round against BW aggro I played t3 Kiora to lock down evil's Soltari Monk and survive until Prime Time took over.
I did get Kiora early to build around. But I'm pretty sure if I was green ramp I'd go into Blue to play her.
---
I love testing almost every new walker that gets spoiled because it's tricky to judge how they will actually play. I was so focused on her being a double explore (an average Cube card at best) versus her being a constant Maze of Ith (a very good Cube card). As an aside to cards that I'm glad I tested I still (happily) play Ashiok and that's a card that most people didn't test or have already cut. It won me a match the other night. I think it's worth testing almost every walker in every Cube at 450 or higher to see if it fits in your environment. Early indications are that Kiora will fit in my 540.
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This is the first thing I thought of when I saw Kiora. She comes off to me as a pw with a very solid way of protecting herself while boosting her loyalty, to either threaten her (somewhat mediocre) ultimate or use her second ability whenever you're ahead. I don't know if she's #1 in Simic, but I'm definitely going to make room for her.
How is her ult Mediocre? It has immediate board presence and is next to impossible to stop barring Moat. I'd be hard pressed to lose after resolving her ult.
You are right. Targeting a Vortex means your opponent won't take damage on their turn, but you will on yours. Not so good.
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This 'walker looks better and better to me the more I think about it. It's not stellar against aggro, but that's okay because the rest of your UG midrange deck will be. Where she needs to be good is in the control matchup, and honestly ...I think she's a good card against control. The + ability is good against isolated threats, the card and tempo advantage - ability is great for midrange vs control, and the ultimate is both obtainable and crushing to a defending control player. She'll be solid in the midrange mirror too, when you can functionally remove their biggest threat and force bad attacks to keep her loyalty down.
A 3rd loyalty would've been gold, but I think she's probably better than a lot of people in this thread predict.
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I would have liked either a 3rd loyalty or the ability to target any other permanent rather than just opponents' stuff. So you wouldn't be able to make her invulnerable, but you could protect another walker for a turn or give yourself an invincible blocker.
Either way though, she definitely merits testing. The real question is, what gets cut? UG is pretty tight. You probably cut Simic Sky Swallower, but that leaves you one less Natural Order/Reanimate/Show and Tell target.
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Im thinking of adding Thornling for another green fatty.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
Is there anything wrong with the ones that we already have? I think that Terastodon / Craterhoof Behemoth would be a fine replacement until we get a better one.
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I also like Terrastodon. Not for its 18 power but more because it removes the opponents best cards. He gets cheated into play quite often here.
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No, nothing's particularly wrong with them, I'd just prefer a new Tier 1 green fatty. If push comes to shove, I can find one (probably Pelakka Wurm or Terastadon) until another one gets printed.
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I agree. Ive cut SSS for it. It showed up last night. It was played into an open board, ticked up and the Kraken's were unleashed! I think its plenty good enough for a medium sized non powered cube for sure.
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Edric is completely solid, no risk of getting cut there. Trygon predator is a metagame decision. There are too many broken enchantments (not to mention broken artifacts) that have too few answers already. Progenitor Mimic is in there for "fun" reasons and because I love the effect. Crazy things happen and it's usually enjoyable or interesting regardless of what side of the table you're on. Shardless Agent was good for a while and I'm upset to cut him, but a cut will have to be made somewhere in order to test Kiora.
I understand the bonkers interactions Mystic Snake provides, but I found the casting cost far too restrictive and you could generally see it coming a mile away. In addition to that, nobody in my playgroup really has any attachment to the snake, so it was an easy decision.
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