He has been stellar here. Especially with fast mana (Lotus, Moxen or good old Dark Ritual) or Immediate Action (for those that play with Conspiracies). It plays well in aggro because it hits the board fast and is a great ****clock. It also works well in Midrange that has enough removal to clear to path.
I don't see this guy leaving our cube soon. We like having Juzam-like cards in our cube, even though Juzam has been outclassed for a while. Three drops in cube often end up being uitility or little smart creatures. These are fine, but some decks prefer more hard hitting stuff to keep the pressure high.
So far I put Ophiomancer, Flesh Carver, Vampire Nighthawk and Hypnotic Specter clearly ahead of him though I don't know how he compares with Herald of Torment. The card draw has actually cost me a couple games the few times I did run him, and I'm having a hard time convincing my players to play him so my sample size is very small. Perhaps I've just been unlucky so far - I really really value evasion on my black 3-drops though, and I can't deny that 5-power... so I'll keep him in for now.
Doesn't Liliana's Specter deserve a mention among the 3-drops, in a cube with a "reusable ETB-triggers"-theme it can do a lot of work.
Yes, but frankly I still like Hyppie Specter more than Liliana's. It is not so easy to abuse such effect in black (there's so much better things to do with a Recurring Nightmare...) and the cost makes it hard to splash into flickering decks. Hyppie's discard is better (random) and more easily repeatable, even if only starts working a turn later.
Using ColbyCube's list, I'd but Liliana's Specter as better than Herald of Torment, otherwise I agree with it.
Using ColbyCube's list, I'd but Liliana's Specter as better than Herald of Torment, otherwise I agree with it.
Herald of Torment has played very nicely for some groups actually and I'm giving it a shot now. It also looks like pretty good in 5cc mode. I still have my Liliana's Specter on deck... though being 2/1 is really hurting its value.
Ophiomancer > Flesh Carver > Nighthawk > Hyppie = Master of the Feast > Xathrid Necromancer > Herald of Torment > Liliana's Specter >>> Nighthowler
I probably forgot one or two in there.
EDIT: Put Liliana's Specter in there.
For me Dauthi Marauder deserves a place up there if you support aggro. Cemetery Reaper was good when we ran it too, zombies come naturally in black anyway.
Herald of Torment has been very good for us, and was included as a push in a new black push towards black demon fatties/devotion (along with Desecration Demon, Master of the Feast, Nightveil Specter, and Grey Merchant) and I've been pretty happy with it. It gives some nice extra value to Dark Ritual too, which has been falling down pick order lists in recent years.
Ophiomancer > Flesh Carver > Nighthawk > Hyppie = Master of the Feast > Xathrid Necromancer > Herald of Torment > Liliana's Specter >>> Nighthowler
I probably forgot one or two in there.
EDIT: Put Liliana's Specter in there.
For me Dauthi Marauder deserves a place up there if you support aggro. Cemetery Reaper was good when we ran it too, zombies come naturally in black anyway.
Flesh Carver unfortunately has not come up in a draft yet.
I'm a big fan of the Marauder as it gets played in a large variety of decks and can even be abused sometimes. Also, having only a single black mana in the casting cost it will be able to come down when you need it too. This is one of those cards that a stronger player will be able to use better than a weaker one.
Ophiomancer is really just head and shoulders above every other black 3 drop.
I've been hesitant to add Master of the Feast because such card disadvantage scares me, but after the good reviews he's getting here I think I'm going to try him in place of Gatekeeper of Malakir.
Good list. I like Shredder and probably Lifebane more than Necromancer in theory. Because I support Pox and Stax, I'd run Messenger over Specter, Herald, and Lifebane. The list misses Dauthi Marauder which I'd run over Rager for sure.
Good list. I like Shredder and probably Lifebane more than Necromancer in theory. Because I support Pox and Stax, I'd run Messenger over Specter, Herald, and Lifebane. The list misses Dauthi Marauder which I'd run over Rager for sure.
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I forgot about Dauthi Marauder. I actually think Dauthi Marauder is awesome. He's a risk because of one toughness, but he's splashable and packs a mean punch.
Master of the Feast is also one of the best cards to use Immediate Action with if you play with Conspiracy cards. Hitting with 5 haste in the air really mitigates the drawback of this card & helps it pass the terminate test.
I love how much damage this card does & it's one of the best black 3 drops in many matchups.
This guy is a house. I've had him out in a few games and my opponent has hit a removal spell for him (Oblivion Ring, so it wasn't even permanent removal) exactly once, and that was after chumping on the first attack and taking 5 on a second attack. Another game, I played a turn 2 Lightning Greaves and then Master on turn 3. Shockingly, I won that game in short order.
I'm really glad this guy is an enchantment, as he's extremely hard to deal with otherwise. There isn't much, if anything really, for creatures that can trade for him at that spot, and the faster the deck the more of a beating he is. The card is a real drawback, but in some matchups they won't have an instant speed answer and then you get gobbled up.
Also he's another demon for Baneslayer; it's always cool to see those protections actually be relevant.
May I ask you what exactly Dauthi Marauder have more than Lifebane Zombie? Some of you guys class them that way and some even did not mention Lifebane in there listing.
IMO, they are kind the same as a unblockable creatre, but Lifebane can't get you 2 for 1 sometimes while giving you some info about what's in your opponent's hand, can block and is also a Zombie, a thing that could matter if you're playing Gravecrawler. Is it just the 1BB factor? Is it that you find Intimate to be a big downside versus Shadow? I don't want to argue, I just wan't to know if I'm missing something.
Hand info is HUGE. And sometimes you get to take a card permanently. It still has 3 power, and still has evasion, but also has a zombie tribal interaction. I'm not sure why people rank it lower than Marauder.
I cut Fleshbag Marauder and Lifebane Zombie a while back because evasive or not, one toughness on a 3-drop is unacceptable with the amount of dividable burn in cube unless it has a really good ETB ability, and I don't think LBZ's ability is worth it main deck. Bone Shredder is the only black x/1 3-drop I run.
Gun to my head, between the two I'd rather have Dauthi Marauder in my cube because shadow is a much more reliable form of evasion than intimidate, and because it's splashable.
****clock. It also works well in Midrange that has enough removal to clear to path.I don't see this guy leaving our cube soon. We like having Juzam-like cards in our cube, even though Juzam has been outclassed for a while. Three drops in cube often end up being uitility or little smart creatures. These are fine, but some decks prefer more hard hitting stuff to keep the pressure high.
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Ophiomancer > Flesh Carver > Nighthawk > Hyppie = Master of the Feast > Xathrid Necromancer > Dauthi Marauder = Herald of Torment > Liliana's Specter >>> Nighthowler
I probably forgot one or two in there.
EDIT: Put Liliana's Specter in there.
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Yes, but frankly I still like Hyppie Specter more than Liliana's. It is not so easy to abuse such effect in black (there's so much better things to do with a Recurring Nightmare...) and the cost makes it hard to splash into flickering decks. Hyppie's discard is better (random) and more easily repeatable, even if only starts working a turn later.
Using ColbyCube's list, I'd but Liliana's Specter as better than Herald of Torment, otherwise I agree with it.
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Herald of Torment has played very nicely for some groups actually and I'm giving it a shot now. It also looks like pretty good in 5cc mode. I still have my Liliana's Specter on deck... though being 2/1 is really hurting its value.
For me Dauthi Marauder deserves a place up there if you support aggro. Cemetery Reaper was good when we ran it too, zombies come naturally in black anyway.
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Agreed, I have him on par with Herald of Torment.
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Ophiomancer > Vampire Nighthawk > Hypnotic Specter > Fleshbag Marauder > Lifebane Zombie > Herald of Torment > Phyrexian Rager > Geralf's Messenger > Liliana's Specter > Gatekeeper of Malakir
Flesh Carver unfortunately has not come up in a draft yet.
I'm a big fan of the Marauder as it gets played in a large variety of decks and can even be abused sometimes. Also, having only a single black mana in the casting cost it will be able to come down when you need it too. This is one of those cards that a stronger player will be able to use better than a weaker one.
Ophiomancer is really just head and shoulders above every other black 3 drop.
I've been hesitant to add Master of the Feast because such card disadvantage scares me, but after the good reviews he's getting here I think I'm going to try him in place of Gatekeeper of Malakir.
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Cheers,
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I forgot about Dauthi Marauder. I actually think Dauthi Marauder is awesome. He's a risk because of one toughness, but he's splashable and packs a mean punch.
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He may not be the best 3-drop, but he is imo the best 3-drop to cast off a dark ritual on t1.
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I love how much damage this card does & it's one of the best black 3 drops in many matchups.
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Also he's another demon for Baneslayer; it's always cool to see those protections actually be relevant.
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May I ask you what exactly Dauthi Marauder have more than Lifebane Zombie? Some of you guys class them that way and some even did not mention Lifebane in there listing.
IMO, they are kind the same as a unblockable creatre, but Lifebane can't get you 2 for 1 sometimes while giving you some info about what's in your opponent's hand, can block and is also a Zombie, a thing that could matter if you're playing Gravecrawler. Is it just the 1BB factor? Is it that you find Intimate to be a big downside versus Shadow? I don't want to argue, I just wan't to know if I'm missing something.
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Gun to my head, between the two I'd rather have Dauthi Marauder in my cube because shadow is a much more reliable form of evasion than intimidate, and because it's splashable.
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