My cube is finally to a point where I'm not making sweeping changes anymore, so I've been thinking of expansions I can make to switch it up and this thread definitely has convinced me to make an UN-expansion. Togglodyte and booster tutor especially seem awesome to play with. Does anyone have any ideas for what archetypes you can make/support with a large amount of UN cards? (I'm thinking of ~160 card expansion)
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My cube is finally to a point where I'm not making sweeping changes anymore, so I've been thinking of expansions I can make to switch it up and this thread definitely has convinced me to make an UN-expansion. Togglodyte and booster tutor especially seem awesome to play with. Does anyone have any ideas for what archetypes you can make/support with a large amount of UN cards? (I'm thinking of ~160 card expansion)
Hmm, I never considered such a large expansion. I'll certainly think about it and pipe up if I have any worth while conclusions.
We've done Chaos Orb errata more like the new card Council's Judgment: Choose a permanent. Its controller sacrifices it.
Ehhhh, but this kind of changes chaos orb. It's supposed to be a destroy effect, not a sac effect. You can regen through chaos orb (of course, you would have to regen before the orb was flipped for it to work). Also, it's not supposed to kill things that are indestructible. Maybe errata it so that the "target" is chosen on the ability's resolution, but it still destroys rather than sacs?
We've done Chaos Orb errata more like the new card Council's Judgment: Choose a permanent. Its controller sacrifices it.
Ehhhh, but this kind of changes chaos orb. It's supposed to be a destroy effect, not a sac effect. You can regen through chaos orb (of course, you would have to regen before the orb was flipped for it to work). Also, it's not supposed to kill things that are indestructible. Maybe errata it so that the "target" is chosen on the ability's resolution, but it still destroys rather than sacs?
Oh, I thought the latest oracle on Chaos Orb was that the cards were sacrificed. My mistake on that, I'll definitely mention that so we don't play it wrong again.
I am experimenting with a Conspiracy/Un- module, and I had questions about a few cards...
How is Who/What/When/Where/Why? without access to Isochron Scepter? Is it just a fair card or is it actually powerful because of its flexibility?
How often does Togglodyte's drawback prevent it from attacking? It seems like it would be relatively easy to keep "live" allowing it to be a 4/4 attacker for 3, but I'm not sure.
Is Super Secret Tech any good? How often does the effect prove to be accidentally too Symmetrical?
Is Cheatyface basically a colorless card? Is it really easy to sneak it to the table?
Look at Me, I'm R&D vs Staying Power. Which one is more powerful? They both have a lot of interactions and need to be built around, and I'm unsure which one is better.
I can only speak for Who/What/When/Where/Why. It is good even without the Scepter and its flexibility makes it a valuable card. It is solid although not over-the-top; think something in the ballpark of Bant Charm but somewhat more flexible.
Togglodyte didn't stay in my Cube very long, because people didn't want to play with it and found it annoying. It never seemed to be a huge drawback but you can get blown out.
SST is too symmetrical, especially in my Cube. It would take some manipulation to your Cube to support it.
Cheatyface is colorless, but was actually too LOW an impact for us, and people started to catch it all the time once it was in the cube a while.
I haven't played either of the white cards.
Feel free to ask me about other non-legal tournament cards, as I've tried a lot
I am experimenting with a Conspiracy/Un- module, and I had questions about a few cards...
How is Who/What/When/Where/Why? without access to Isochron Scepter? Is it just a fair card or is it actually powerful because of its flexibility?
How often does Togglodyte's drawback prevent it from attacking? It seems like it would be relatively easy to keep "live" allowing it to be a 4/4 attacker for 3, but I'm not sure.
Is Super Secret Tech any good? How often does the effect prove to be accidentally too Symmetrical?
Is Cheatyface basically a colorless card? Is it really easy to sneak it to the table?
Look at Me, I'm R&D vs Staying Power. Which one is more powerful? They both have a lot of interactions and need to be built around, and I'm unsure which one is better.
I don't think any of those cards are actually 360 material anyway. Cheatyface could be breeds a lot of resentment and, as ak says, plays sort of like a dark ritual fueled start with all of the inherent weaknesses of the same. Hes great early but tapers off fast (granted, not as fast as Savannah Lion) and if your opponent is alert for him he can basically be a dead draw.
I agree that the group will adapt to Cheatyface pretty quick. My group has even adapted to Topsy Turvy at this point, which is impressive given the difficulty of playing this game backwards. I think it is fun to keep in a module, assuming that you will not be playing with it all the time. That will extend its fun time considerably. It is not an 'all the time card'.
Super Secret Tech could be pretty good in a cube like mine, which is 31.8% foil. That gives the card a lot of play. If I recall, your cube is close to 100%, which changes it a lot, and makes it less interesting.
I am experimenting with a Conspiracy/Un- module, and I had questions about a few cards...
How is Who/What/When/Where/Why? without access to Isochron Scepter? Is it just a fair card or is it actually powerful because of its flexibility?
How often does Togglodyte's drawback prevent it from attacking? It seems like it would be relatively easy to keep "live" allowing it to be a 4/4 attacker for 3, but I'm not sure.
Is Super Secret Tech any good? How often does the effect prove to be accidentally too Symmetrical?
Is Cheatyface basically a colorless card? Is it really easy to sneak it to the table?
Look at Me, I'm R&D vs Staying Power. Which one is more powerful? They both have a lot of interactions and need to be built around, and I'm unsure which one is better.
WWWWW is great for the flexibility, and broken with Isochron Scepter. If you are doing an unmodule, I would absolutely include it.
Toggledytes drawback in game really doesn't come into play often, BUT our players would rarely use it because they were overly afraid of the drawback. The drawback looks worse then it is, but that effects how often it is played. Maybe you will have better luck, but that mental blind spot made me cut toggledyte, a good card is useless if no one plays it.
It is hard to discuss Super Secret Tech without knowing how much foil you have in your cube.
Cheatyface is something we have never used, just because of the bad feelings it can engender.
Look at Me, I'm R&D is crazy, much stronger than Staying Power. R&D is easier to build around, it plays supremely well with tokens (which is a theme in my cube), and really makes memorable experiences. Staying Power isn't bad, but I found it to influence the game a lot less than R&D.
I have 178 foil cards in the cube, so it's actually under half. The rest are alters and old school cards, so Super Secret Tech could be a "build around" card in that sense. I may just have to test it and see.
I'll try out Look at Me over Staying Power for a while and see how it does. Thanks.
Just wanted to chime in re: City of Ass. I don't think it's too wacky at all and we've been playing with it for so long I forget it's even silver bordered. It's pretty great actually and what cube couldn't use another 5 colour fixer?
I haven't read over this thread because I'm feeling lazy so sorry if this is a redundant topic, but I think that City of Ass should be labeled as very high. ETB tapped does suck, but after that turn it's almost always the best land you could have for casting your cards.
Also I think that Symbol Status is the best green card by a large margin. There is no green card I would take over it if I'm in green/going in that direction/early in the draft. (Unless I'm playing storm.)
The power of Symbol Status depends a lot on your basic land composition. If you are running aesthetically pleasing uniform basic lands in your cube, it will create less tokens than if you are running only one-off basic lands from a bunch of different sets. In the latter case, it will create (nearly) one token per permanent you control. In the former case, it will create noticeably fewer tokens.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
The power of Symbol Status depends a lot on your basic land composition. If you are running aesthetically pleasing uniform basic lands in your cube, it will create less tokens than if you are running only one-off basic lands from a bunch of different sets. In the latter case, it will create (nearly) one token per permanent you control. In the former case, it will create noticeably fewer tokens.
For sure, but I think it's worth it to run all the symbols you can because symbol status is such a fun card to cast, and having all the obscure mana symbols is pretty cool too. Competitively it's less ideal but that's OK for me.
Even though Once More with Feeling is insane in the right deck, the forth white mana means that almost only pure white decks can use it. I wouldn't build a bad deck (and mono-white decks are usually bad in cube) just to have the potential to cast a broken card once in a while.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
BPauper Glissa EDHG
WMaw of the Obzedat PDHB
Hmm, I never considered such a large expansion. I'll certainly think about it and pipe up if I have any worth while conclusions.
Ehhhh, but this kind of changes chaos orb. It's supposed to be a destroy effect, not a sac effect. You can regen through chaos orb (of course, you would have to regen before the orb was flipped for it to work). Also, it's not supposed to kill things that are indestructible. Maybe errata it so that the "target" is chosen on the ability's resolution, but it still destroys rather than sacs?
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Oh, I thought the latest oracle on Chaos Orb was that the cards were sacrificed. My mistake on that, I'll definitely mention that so we don't play it wrong again.
How is Who/What/When/Where/Why? without access to Isochron Scepter? Is it just a fair card or is it actually powerful because of its flexibility?
How often does Togglodyte's drawback prevent it from attacking? It seems like it would be relatively easy to keep "live" allowing it to be a 4/4 attacker for 3, but I'm not sure.
Is Super Secret Tech any good? How often does the effect prove to be accidentally too Symmetrical?
Is Cheatyface basically a colorless card? Is it really easy to sneak it to the table?
Look at Me, I'm R&D vs Staying Power. Which one is more powerful? They both have a lot of interactions and need to be built around, and I'm unsure which one is better.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Former DCI L2 Judge
My old Cube podcast on ManaDeprived, with Goodking and artbcnco: http://manadeprived.com/podcasts/mtgin3d/
You can find me on Twitter as well.
Togglodyte didn't stay in my Cube very long, because people didn't want to play with it and found it annoying. It never seemed to be a huge drawback but you can get blown out.
SST is too symmetrical, especially in my Cube. It would take some manipulation to your Cube to support it.
Cheatyface is colorless, but was actually too LOW an impact for us, and people started to catch it all the time once it was in the cube a while.
I haven't played either of the white cards.
Feel free to ask me about other non-legal tournament cards, as I've tried a lot
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
I don't think any of those cards are actually 360 material anyway. Cheatyface could be breeds a lot of resentment and, as ak says, plays sort of like a dark ritual fueled start with all of the inherent weaknesses of the same. Hes great early but tapers off fast (granted, not as fast as Savannah Lion) and if your opponent is alert for him he can basically be a dead draw.
Super Secret Tech could be pretty good in a cube like mine, which is 31.8% foil. That gives the card a lot of play. If I recall, your cube is close to 100%, which changes it a lot, and makes it less interesting.
WWWWW is great for the flexibility, and broken with Isochron Scepter. If you are doing an unmodule, I would absolutely include it.
Toggledytes drawback in game really doesn't come into play often, BUT our players would rarely use it because they were overly afraid of the drawback. The drawback looks worse then it is, but that effects how often it is played. Maybe you will have better luck, but that mental blind spot made me cut toggledyte, a good card is useless if no one plays it.
It is hard to discuss Super Secret Tech without knowing how much foil you have in your cube.
Cheatyface is something we have never used, just because of the bad feelings it can engender.
Look at Me, I'm R&D is crazy, much stronger than Staying Power. R&D is easier to build around, it plays supremely well with tokens (which is a theme in my cube), and really makes memorable experiences. Staying Power isn't bad, but I found it to influence the game a lot less than R&D.
I'll try out Look at Me over Staying Power for a while and see how it does. Thanks.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Also I think that Symbol Status is the best green card by a large margin. There is no green card I would take over it if I'm in green/going in that direction/early in the draft. (Unless I'm playing storm.)
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
The card is *absurd*. It doesn't hit tokens - if you have any sort of board presence through tokens and cast it, you should just win on the spot.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
#ComboOfTheYear2k14
I need a copy of Once More With Feeling now.
For sure, but I think it's worth it to run all the symbols you can because symbol status is such a fun card to cast, and having all the obscure mana symbols is pretty cool too. Competitively it's less ideal but that's OK for me.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
City of Ass and Blast from the Past are consistently bonkers here.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
Once More With Feeling
Look at Me, I'm R&D
Gifts Given
Topsy Turvy (or Magical Hacker)
Booster Tutor
Umm... Necro-Impotence maybe?
Blast from the Past
Frazzled Editor
Symbol Status
Fruitcake Elemental
Who/What/When/Where/Why
Togglodyte
City of Ass
Blacker Lotus
Jack-in-the-Mox
I like this list quite a bit. Though for black you might want to look at Enter the Dungeon, Evil Presents, or Vile Bile.