That's what typically happens. We'll have one thread for the voting (which I will include the last batch of PRs as reference) and the voting will take place in that thread. Once voting is completed, I will post in a new thread the newest results, paired with last year's results as well as the TURF. That post in itself opens all kinds of discussion. As each group is completed, the results will go into the 2nd post in this thread so the information is centralized.
However, I will make a note in the VOTING post that individual card discussion isn't meant for that thread -- with the exception of maybe the question of a card's inclusion ("Does Crystal Shard count as a Blue card?", etc).
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Why not just PM the votes to Silent Edge and have one thread with results (possibly just in the OP) and discussion. That keeps anyone from being heavily influenced by someone else's vote and prevents any "I can't believe you think X is better than Y" nonsense.
I like seeing all the lists. I would hate to have that aspect eliminated. If we do the PM thing, I think the lists should get published later. I think it's fun to talk about the individual lists, but I do see the point of not having them influence the voting.
I'd prefer not to have to PM the lists. Sure watching lists can influence you and lead to group think, but I remember it also made me question my own list and made sure I did not forgot cards. It also makes sure this thread lives more and gets more attention, also from non-voters and lurkers.
I always had the "Should I have people PM me?" thought...
But Hicham brings up the best point. Posting the votes in the thread not only consistently bumps it, it shows the level of participation and can/will encourage others to post theirs. And that'll happen because everyone's vote is heard, but it'll mostly happen because people won't always agree with others. "So-and-so put <this> at #1? No way! It should be #5 at best! I'm posting my own". I think it goes beyond remembering to list all the cards/forgetting cards.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
I guess we can discuss in here while voting. I noticed that KBH voted Cold Snap highly. Doesn't that card require significant errata in order to be anything other than terrible? Given that I would never optionally take snow lands with this in the cube especially as there are effectively zero cards which are actually worth taking snow basics for. Seems unfair to make everyone take snow basics just so they can get killed by this card...
It's ironic, I thought his list was extremely eclectic. I liked it.
As it were, I spoke to a guy yesterday who said his friend's Cube runs nothing BUT Snow-Covered lands. Having said that, I can see that card being a beast in that setting.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Yeah, the list was fine otherwise, don't get me wrong, but this card is a weird case for certain. I would feel bad making players use snow lands just to make this good. If there were actual great snow cards that incentivised players to take the lands, I don't think punishing them would seem so wrong.
At that point we have enough votes (with no one else voting for the card) to be sure Cold Snap won't even show up in the final list. It just doesn't matter, really.
His vote on a Conspiracy card (Council's Judgment) is a bigger problem, as the set is not valid. Would this annul KBH's whole list?
At that point we have enough votes (with no one else voting for the card) to be sure Cold Snap won't even show up in the final list. It just doesn't matter, really.
His vote on a Conspiracy card (Council's Judgment) is a bigger problem, as the set is not valid. Would this annul KBH's whole list?
I'll send him a message to revise his list. It's only one card. Voting closes in 2 days, we're good
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
If there were actual great snow cards that incentivised players to take the lands, I don't think punishing them would seem so wrong.
There are good snow cards that incentivize playing snow basics... which justifies the punishing side of Cold Snap just fine.
Just because YOU don't use Snow lands and support Cold Snap doesn't mean there's anything wrong with him voting for it. He shouldn't be asked/forced to revise his list, IMO.
I guess we can discuss in here while voting. I noticed that KBH voted Cold Snap highly. Doesn't that card require significant errata in order to be anything other than terrible? Given that I would never optionally take snow lands with this in the cube especially as there are effectively zero cards which are actually worth taking snow basics for. Seems unfair to make everyone take snow basics just so they can get killed by this card...
There are so called "snow cubes" that provide only snow-covered basic lands instead of normal basic lands for deck building, which allows them to run a few interesting cards that reference snow permanents. I assume KBH has one of those. In that case, there is no need for errata and choosing basic lands that aren't snow-covered is not an option. I don't see how that is unfair. It simply means that the cube can run a few cards that are just not viable in normal/non-snow cubes. Cold Snap is just one of these cards (and probably one of the most powerful).
No existing snow cards would make me run the lands voluntarily for my own benefit at the risk of being Cold Snapped, and I used to run the couple of decent ones allowing players to take snow lands if they wanted. If you force players to run snow basics instead of regulars, it's clearly a crazy good card. I never suggested forcing anyone to resubmit a list by the way.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
On the voting front, I'm surprised to see Wrath of God and DoJ so far apart in many lists. I believe that they are basically identical in my list. How many cards differentiate these from each other in the average cube? A good white regenerator would be awesome, by the way.
We don't always run Cold Snap but it is definitely second only to Balance if your Cube either uses snow-covered lands exclusively or if you errata all basic lands to be snow. If its in your Cube it is basically THE defining card for White aggro.
I will take Council's Judgment off. When I posted my list no ruling had been made on cards that have been spoiled but aren't released yet.
I realize that almost none of the Un cards will make the final list but many of them are wildly powerful and I will continue to list as many as I think I plausibly can (for instance, I don't think Look At Me, I'm R&D is that great but I've seen it do some stupid things and it is definitely something that could get first picked and built arond)
I've always agreed with that. With only a few people voting for it (but giving it such high scores), Gifts Given made the PR's in 2009 and 2010.
I don't think people should NOT vote for the UN-cards, etc -- I think they should. It opens up healthy discussion and possibly the chance that the cards see play.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
I've always agreed with that. With only a few people voting for it (but giving it such high scores), Gifts Given made the PR's in 2009 and 2010.
I don't think people should NOT vote for the UN-cards, etc -- I think they should. It opens up healthy discussion and possibly the chance that the cards see play.
One thing I don't care for very much is the fact that the P1P1 criteria skews the lists towards the more expensive cards. It kind of encourages a funky Cube design because of course those cards are "bombs". But there's only so many spots available in each color for high end cards. I omitted many of them because otherwise I would end up picking cards that we don't even play in our Cube (or well, cards that are not first teamers, since we do rotate in different stuff quite often)
One thing I don't care for very much is the fact that the P1P1 criteria skews the lists towards the more expensive cards. It kind of encourages a funky Cube design because of course those cards are "bombs". But there's only so many spots available in each color for high end cards. I omitted many of them because otherwise I would end up picking cards that we don't even play in our Cube (or well, cards that are not first teamers, since we do rotate in different stuff quite often)
It shows more than a value of what's "powerful" (I guess that's what makes them expensive). Cards that are taken at P1P1 are also those cards which are good to build around. I think an early Armageddon, Tinker or Upheaval is a great pick. Armageddon especially if you start seeing WX Aggro, and artifacts if you grabbed Tinker. I know everyone drafts different, but I like getting direction with my 1st pick so I can maximize every pick that comes next.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Hm, can I still modify my list until the voting closes? I just realized that I forgot a very strong card that I (and many others) run when I made my list.
However, I will make a note in the VOTING post that individual card discussion isn't meant for that thread -- with the exception of maybe the question of a card's inclusion ("Does Crystal Shard count as a Blue card?", etc).
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
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MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
But Hicham brings up the best point. Posting the votes in the thread not only consistently bumps it, it shows the level of participation and can/will encourage others to post theirs. And that'll happen because everyone's vote is heard, but it'll mostly happen because people won't always agree with others. "So-and-so put <this> at #1? No way! It should be #5 at best! I'm posting my own". I think it goes beyond remembering to list all the cards/forgetting cards.
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
As it were, I spoke to a guy yesterday who said his friend's Cube runs nothing BUT Snow-Covered lands. Having said that, I can see that card being a beast in that setting.
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
His vote on a Conspiracy card (Council's Judgment) is a bigger problem, as the set is not valid. Would this annul KBH's whole list?
No. If you play snow basics in your group, it plays as written and it's bonkers good.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I'll send him a message to revise his list. It's only one card. Voting closes in 2 days, we're good
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
There are good snow cards that incentivize playing snow basics... which justifies the punishing side of Cold Snap just fine.
Just because YOU don't use Snow lands and support Cold Snap doesn't mean there's anything wrong with him voting for it. He shouldn't be asked/forced to revise his list, IMO.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
THAT'S A NEW MTGS RECORD!!
The previous record was 22 voters for BLACK (Feb 2010) and RED (Feb 2010). #shattered
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
On the voting front, I'm surprised to see Wrath of God and DoJ so far apart in many lists. I believe that they are basically identical in my list. How many cards differentiate these from each other in the average cube? A good white regenerator would be awesome, by the way.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I will take Council's Judgment off. When I posted my list no ruling had been made on cards that have been spoiled but aren't released yet.
I realize that almost none of the Un cards will make the final list but many of them are wildly powerful and I will continue to list as many as I think I plausibly can (for instance, I don't think Look At Me, I'm R&D is that great but I've seen it do some stupid things and it is definitely something that could get first picked and built arond)
I don't think people should NOT vote for the UN-cards, etc -- I think they should. It opens up healthy discussion and possibly the chance that the cards see play.
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
One thing I don't care for very much is the fact that the P1P1 criteria skews the lists towards the more expensive cards. It kind of encourages a funky Cube design because of course those cards are "bombs". But there's only so many spots available in each color for high end cards. I omitted many of them because otherwise I would end up picking cards that we don't even play in our Cube (or well, cards that are not first teamers, since we do rotate in different stuff quite often)
It shows more than a value of what's "powerful" (I guess that's what makes them expensive). Cards that are taken at P1P1 are also those cards which are good to build around. I think an early Armageddon, Tinker or Upheaval is a great pick. Armageddon especially if you start seeing WX Aggro, and artifacts if you grabbed Tinker. I know everyone drafts different, but I like getting direction with my 1st pick so I can maximize every pick that comes next.
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
Draft my cube!
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Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG