From what I've seen this weekend, this card is really really good. It's also been much more interesting than the Redcap. I think I just got a new #3 Rakdos for my cube.
Ok I am clearly in the minority. I made room for a 5th land in each guild. I added Blackcleave Cliffs but I will swap dragonskull with lavaclaw reaches for a bit and see if it gets activated more often (previously that was very rare so it got cut). Colonade, Tarpit and Ravine all are picked highly and used frequently but stirring wildwood and lavaclaw were just etb tapped duals for us.
For those reporting positive results from Grenzo - what is the context of those results (Conspiracy draft? Cube?) If the latter, what decks did it work well in?
I've played him (cube) twice so far. Once in BR aggro and once in a BR Wildfire deck. In aggro, he resolved as a 3/3 when I needed a 3-drop, and played one Vampire Lacerator off the bottom of my library on like T5 or 6 when I had some spare mana. It was perfectly fine. In the Wildfire deck, it came down as a 5/5 for 5 the turn before the BoX went off, and was able to et me the win. Both the flexibility and the free threats have proved themselves useful so far.
This thread is for cube. Grenzo in works in any Rakdos deck just as a regular vanilla creature at any point in the curve.
His ability is icing...but really delicious chocolate icing in the right deck. It is a great mana sink in aggressive decks once you've run out of gas or in any deck that wants to get cards in its graveyard.
Edit: I just noticed he is a Goblin...he might be good in Legacy goblin decks too but you would have to be mindful of when you use his ability as ringleader stuffs a lot of junk on the bottom of your library.
Be's definitely the bonkers. He's a card advantage machine, especially if you have some flashback cards in your deck you don't mind milling like Firebolt or Chainer's Edict. He's powerful enough to splash in a red or black aggressive deck. He fits anywhere on the curve.
He's everything you want in a gold cube card: a big fat, powerful creature, versatility at any curve point, a super fun and useful mana-sinking ability with occasional massive upside when you flip something worth 5 mana, and a character straight out of a Terry Pratchett book. He's rapidly becoming one of my favourite cards in the cube, he's that much fun.
He's an auto include into the Rakdos setting, after seeing him in action he has the capacity to push a deck a bit to interact with different mechanics.
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Splashed black for him the other day in a Recruiter/Revillark 2-power ETB trigger deck. He was pretty sweet. I was able to tutor him up with Recruiter, drop him later in the curve, and spend all the excess mana revealing cards and getting free bodies. If your opponent doesn't kill him right away, you can probably win the game just trying to take advantage of the CA that comes from his ability over time.
I splashed him a U/B tempo deck, because I wanted to try him out. Dark ritualed him out on 2 as a 4/4. Spend the rest of the game churning out value without casting another fair card(kind of like pack rat).
Free cards I put into plat over 3 matches: Mulldrifter, Skinrender, Gravecrawler, Ophiomancer, Pack Rat, Dark Confidant, Epochrosite(hehe), Man-O-War. Lightning Mauler, Snapcaster Mage.
So yeah, the only thing I don't like about this guy is that I have to buy a Foil one because he isn't going anywhere.
I am late to the thread and I know Grenzo doesn't need any more adulation but I'll give some anyway. My brother had him in B\R aggro the other day with Purphoros. Nuts. Now all the creatures he flips dome for two and can be pumped. I lost that game.
We didn't notice till later but purphoros can pump grenzo first to hit bigger creatures if need be. Nice little interaction.
Yep, and he is still really great for all the reasons mentioned; Fits any point in the curve (bar 1) and has a mana sink ability that provides extra bodies.
It is an interesting, powerful card and my drafters like him a lot.
My R/B section was Daretti, K. Command, Grenzo, and Falkenrath, I recently switched it to Daretti, K. Command, Dreadbore, and Vial Smasher. Grenzo is a bit mana intensive and the ability while INCREDIBLY fun, whiffs with some regularity. Falkenrath is solid, but I wanted some 2CC PW removal and Vial Smasher doesn't ask that you do anything but cast spells over the game. On rare occasion the requirement that you cast the more expensive spell first to take full advantage of him might be a hindrance, but this is a minor quibble. Also, Vial Smasher with Fireblast is disgusting.
Also Switched Grenzo with Vial Smasher. Grenzo is expensive and slow. It does have late game power, but also imposes deckbulding limitations. It was almost always played in aggro, where you have a high chance of hitting relatively, but the body was low tempo and value the turn you cast it. It was of the powerlevel of cards that should wheel back to the Rakdos player, always. Smasher is sometimes splashed for and is a must kill.
I love grenzo, but unfortunately, he proved too narrow for me to continue giving him a slot in my cube.
His ceiling is quite high, but rakdos rarely lends itself to decks that hit his ceiling. You need a high creature density to make activating his ability an effective use of mana, and most of my rakdos decks wanted a fair number of non-creature spells.
He was at his best in 3/4 color creature heavy brews (16+ creatures with recruiters, revilark etc), but sadly ,Red and Black are primarily support colors in those decks. Costing both red AND black caused him to be low tier in decks where he would otherwise be excellent.
He can generate incredible value if left unchecked, and is solid threat, but he doesn't put the intensity of pressure on the opponent that the faster rakdos agro decks need to compete (they aren't design to play for the mid game)... exception with like 17+ creatures, but those rakdos decks tend to be a lot worse.
If he cost BW or GB or GW, I have a strong feeling he would still be in my cube.
Agree with wtwlf about the Reaches vs. the Summit. Aggro decks love to have a manland or two.
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Back to Grenzo...I ordered mine this weekend!
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His ability is icing...but really delicious chocolate icing in the right deck. It is a great mana sink in aggressive decks once you've run out of gas or in any deck that wants to get cards in its graveyard.
Edit: I just noticed he is a Goblin...he might be good in Legacy goblin decks too but you would have to be mindful of when you use his ability as ringleader stuffs a lot of junk on the bottom of your library.
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Free cards I put into plat over 3 matches: Mulldrifter, Skinrender, Gravecrawler, Ophiomancer, Pack Rat, Dark Confidant, Epochrosite(hehe), Man-O-War. Lightning Mauler, Snapcaster Mage.
So yeah, the only thing I don't like about this guy is that I have to buy a Foil one because he isn't going anywhere.
We didn't notice till later but purphoros can pump grenzo first to hit bigger creatures if need be. Nice little interaction.
Yep, and he is still really great for all the reasons mentioned; Fits any point in the curve (bar 1) and has a mana sink ability that provides extra bodies.
It is an interesting, powerful card and my drafters like him a lot.
My R/B section was Daretti, K. Command, Grenzo, and Falkenrath, I recently switched it to Daretti, K. Command, Dreadbore, and Vial Smasher. Grenzo is a bit mana intensive and the ability while INCREDIBLY fun, whiffs with some regularity. Falkenrath is solid, but I wanted some 2CC PW removal and Vial Smasher doesn't ask that you do anything but cast spells over the game. On rare occasion the requirement that you cast the more expensive spell first to take full advantage of him might be a hindrance, but this is a minor quibble. Also, Vial Smasher with Fireblast is disgusting.
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His ceiling is quite high, but rakdos rarely lends itself to decks that hit his ceiling. You need a high creature density to make activating his ability an effective use of mana, and most of my rakdos decks wanted a fair number of non-creature spells.
He was at his best in 3/4 color creature heavy brews (16+ creatures with recruiters, revilark etc), but sadly ,Red and Black are primarily support colors in those decks. Costing both red AND black caused him to be low tier in decks where he would otherwise be excellent.
He can generate incredible value if left unchecked, and is solid threat, but he doesn't put the intensity of pressure on the opponent that the faster rakdos agro decks need to compete (they aren't design to play for the mid game)... exception with like 17+ creatures, but those rakdos decks tend to be a lot worse.
If he cost BW or GB or GW, I have a strong feeling he would still be in my cube.
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