Is this guy any good or should he just be ignored in favor of even bigger fatties like Terrastodon, Woodfall Primus and Hornet Queen? Or even ignored in favor of more fat in the 4-6 CMC slots?
Avenger of Zendikar is also a very good card that competes in that slot. Pelakka Wurm is OK… I'm not convinced that drawing a card and gaining some life is better than 5+ tokens that are probably 1/2's or 2/3's.
Well, it has a lot to do with the reanimation potential too. Avenger isn't a great target for early reanimation/Natural Order shenanigans. Same goes for Behemoth. Both are fine, but they're kinda ramp exclusive targets.
I forgot all about Pelakka Wurm! I'm going to try him out instead of Hornet Queen in our 360 and see if he's better.
A lot of people around here have expressed a ton of love for him in other formats. I really like him too, although Hornet Queen has been doing great for us recently, really happy you guys turned our playgroup onto her.
My experience with it has been good, but that's because it tends to land ~turn 4. It and Hornet Queen trade places fairly frequently in my cube and both generally do the same thing - stabilize immediately.
Hornet Queen is significantly better than this card.
We're happy with Hornet Queen for now, but I like testing similar cards. I already mentioned my playgroup really likes Pelakka Wurm but we haven't tried him in cube. What works for our playgroup may be different (even if we had the same cube size) than what works for other people and vice versa.
Terrastadon and Woodfall Primus were both a little less exciting than I hoped they would be. Pelakka Wurm is a big trample body that stabilizes your life total immediately and gives you a shot at drawing another threat if it dies. I've found that this is exactly what the ramp decks want in my cube. (Being 7 mana instead of 8 is actually pretty relevant too.) I haven't tried Hornet Queen. It looks strong, but significantly better than Pelakka Wurm is a big boast.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
It looks strong, but significantly better than Pelakka Wurm is a big boast.
Not exactly, Pelakka Wurm is really just okay. I've played both cards in the cube extensively. And I don't think they're really even close in terms of power level.
If you're just ramping, Avenger is probably a lot better. But if you're reanimating too, the Wurm gains some stock because it's a better threat early on. Pelakka Wurm isn't terrible or anything, but I think it's securely behind the top 3 7+cc green creatures.
Pelakka Wurm may be better than Hornet Queen in different cubes with different playgroups.
You guys like Morphling enough to still cube with him, but I think a lot of playgroups (if not most) would disagree, so there's always room for different cards to be legitimately better for different cubes (and different playgroups).
Does that mean that I shouldn't share my opinion on which card I think is better? I mean, I guess we could just close down the cube forum and pack it in because there's nothing to discuss.
Does that mean that I shouldn't share my opinion on which card I think is better? I mean, I guess we could just close down the cube forum and pack it in because there's nothing to discuss.
It looks strong, but significantly better than Pelakka Wurm is a big boast.
Not exactly, Pelakka Wurm is really just okay. I've played both cards in the cube extensively. And I don't think they're really even close in terms of power level.
Saying they're not even close is a big statement. That's like saying that in any cube, Hornet Queen will be so much better than Pelakka Wurm that it basically shouldn't even be discussed in the same sentence.
Ancestral Recall is significantly better than Brainstorm. Brainstorm is really just okay. I've played both cards in the cube extensively. And I don't think they're really even close in terms of power level.
^ This sentence makes more sense as is than if we substituted Hornet Queen and Pelakka Wurm in the same spots. Do you see what Asenion is saying when he says you're making a big boast?
I'm saying Pelakka Wurm vs. Hornet Queen is likely much more playgroup and cube dependent than a obvious windmill slam dunk in Hornet Queen's favor.
I'm okay with that "big boast". I think it's significantly better. The Wurm is fine. I just wouldn't take it over Hornet Queen in any cube I've drafted.
I'm okay with that "big boast". I think it's significantly better. The Wurm is fine. I just wouldn't take it over Hornet Queen in any cube I've drafted.
Okay, then I think we fundamentally disagree on the power level disparity between the two cards.
I do not think Hornet Queen is so much better than Pelakka Wurm that I would feel comfortable making statements where I could substitute Ancestral Recall and Brainstorm into them and it would make more sense. I respect your opinion though.
We've been really impressed with Hornet Queen and we haven't had testing on Pelakka Wurm yet, so we'll see how it goes. As far as I know at this point, she really could be that amazing.
Okay, then I think we fundamentally disagree on the power level disparity between the two cards.
I do not think Hornet Queen is so much better than Pelakka Wurm that I would feel comfortable making statements where I could substitute Ancestral Recall and Brainstorm into them and it would make more sense.
And that's fine. That's the purpose of this thread. How much experience do you have with both cards in the cube setting?
And that's fine. That's the purpose of this thread. How much experience do you have with both cards in the cube setting?
At this point I have absolutely no experience with Pelakka Wurm in cube.
I'm surprised you're taking this route of argument though as I've seen you argue that experience is overvalued when evaluating cards (even recently via the Reforge the Soul thread).
I think Pelakka Wurm vs. Hornet Queen is a close disparity in power level and largely playgroup and cube dependant instead of one being significantly better than the other.
I'm surprised you're taking this route of argument though as I've seen you argue that experience is overvalued when evaluating cards (even recently via the Reforge the Soul thread).
Oh? I think you may be mistaken. I've argued that there's no substitute for experience, and that when a "pro" Magic player tells me something that's contradictory to my experiences with a card, defaulting to the first-hand experiences is the right call. Which is exactly why I'm comfortable saying that Hornet Queen is the better card.
I think Pelakka Wurm vs. Hornet Queen is a close disparity in power level and largely playgroup and cube dependant instead of one being significantly better than the other.
Very cool. I don't.
At this point I have absolutely no experience with Pelakka Wurm in cube.
Maybe you won't feel the same after you have some experience with it. I've cubed both of these creatures a lot.
I'm saying the card is bad. I would not play it in any cube I'd ever design, even if I was all-in on Storm support. I think it's Butt with a capital B. I think it's a terrible card, and a waste of a slot in the cube. I wouldn't pick it out of a pack. Ever. For all the reasons I've outlined over and over again. What else do you want me to say?
Even in a Storm deck I think it's terrible.
So, that is your analysis of the card without ever playing it.
Quote from wtwlf123 »
Maybe you won't feel the same after you have some experience with it. I've cubed both of these creatures a lot.
I asked you a similar question, and you responded:
Perhaps a better question is why on earth would you guess it's something that ridiculously low when you've never played the card?
Because I know how Wheel of Fortune plays, and I understand how much worse it would be if I was unable to control the timing of the card. And how unplayable the effect is at 5 mana.
So, according to you, YOUR experience SHOULD matter when you've played with a card. When you've cubed the card "a lot," it's a valid argument for why I should listen to your analysis of saying one card is significantly better than another. So much so that we can incorporate Ancestral Recall and Brainstorm into your statements and they make just as much sense (if not more sense) than what words you're actually using.
...Except when it's not your experience that matters and it's someone else's experience. In that case, your uninformed, inexperienced position on a card is good enough because you simply know that a card is "Butt with a capital B" even if it's in a cube you've never played, in an archetype you haven't supported in months if not years.
Gotcha.
I'm done with this conversation, I'll let you have the last words.
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A lot of people around here have expressed a ton of love for him in other formats. I really like him too, although Hornet Queen has been doing great for us recently, really happy you guys turned our playgroup onto her.
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We're happy with Hornet Queen for now, but I like testing similar cards. I already mentioned my playgroup really likes Pelakka Wurm but we haven't tried him in cube. What works for our playgroup may be different (even if we had the same cube size) than what works for other people and vice versa.
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Not exactly, Pelakka Wurm is really just okay. I've played both cards in the cube extensively. And I don't think they're really even close in terms of power level.
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It would look something like this for me:
Woodfall Primus > Hornet Queen >>> Terastodon >>>>>>> Pelakka Wurm >> Other Fatties
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You guys like Morphling enough to still cube with him, but I think a lot of playgroups (if not most) would disagree, so there's always room for different cards to be legitimately better for different cubes (and different playgroups).
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I know man! Me too. Best part about its reprinting.
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I'm responding to this statement:
Saying they're not even close is a big statement. That's like saying that in any cube, Hornet Queen will be so much better than Pelakka Wurm that it basically shouldn't even be discussed in the same sentence.
Ancestral Recall is significantly better than Brainstorm. Brainstorm is really just okay. I've played both cards in the cube extensively. And I don't think they're really even close in terms of power level.
^ This sentence makes more sense as is than if we substituted Hornet Queen and Pelakka Wurm in the same spots. Do you see what Asenion is saying when he says you're making a big boast?
I'm saying Pelakka Wurm vs. Hornet Queen is likely much more playgroup and cube dependent than a obvious windmill slam dunk in Hornet Queen's favor.
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Okay, then I think we fundamentally disagree on the power level disparity between the two cards.
I do not think Hornet Queen is so much better than Pelakka Wurm that I would feel comfortable making statements where I could substitute Ancestral Recall and Brainstorm into them and it would make more sense. I respect your opinion though.
We've been really impressed with Hornet Queen and we haven't had testing on Pelakka Wurm yet, so we'll see how it goes. As far as I know at this point, she really could be that amazing.
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And that's fine. That's the purpose of this thread. How much experience do you have with both cards in the cube setting?
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At this point I have absolutely no experience with Pelakka Wurm in cube.
I'm surprised you're taking this route of argument though as I've seen you argue that experience is overvalued when evaluating cards (even recently via the Reforge the Soul thread).
I think Pelakka Wurm vs. Hornet Queen is a close disparity in power level and largely playgroup and cube dependant instead of one being significantly better than the other.
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Oh? I think you may be mistaken. I've argued that there's no substitute for experience, and that when a "pro" Magic player tells me something that's contradictory to my experiences with a card, defaulting to the first-hand experiences is the right call. Which is exactly why I'm comfortable saying that Hornet Queen is the better card.
Very cool. I don't.
Maybe you won't feel the same after you have some experience with it. I've cubed both of these creatures a lot.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
So, that is your analysis of the card without ever playing it.
I asked you a similar question, and you responded:
So, according to you, YOUR experience SHOULD matter when you've played with a card. When you've cubed the card "a lot," it's a valid argument for why I should listen to your analysis of saying one card is significantly better than another. So much so that we can incorporate Ancestral Recall and Brainstorm into your statements and they make just as much sense (if not more sense) than what words you're actually using.
...Except when it's not your experience that matters and it's someone else's experience. In that case, your uninformed, inexperienced position on a card is good enough because you simply know that a card is "Butt with a capital B" even if it's in a cube you've never played, in an archetype you haven't supported in months if not years.
Gotcha.
I'm done with this conversation, I'll let you have the last words.
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