Think the new garruk is very good and is powerful enough to play in a cube environment. Though nothing spectacular.
All the other golgari cards in my cube are either extremly powerful, or serve an important roll in a supported archetype, so am not going to play it. But , more power to anyone who tests.
PS Also agree that PERFECT guild balance is far from a necessity and doesn't add anything to gameplay.
Archetype balance define cube balance far more than general color combinations. Rigidly sticking to color combination restrictions , despite other design factors; is just constraining yourself for an arbitrary reason. Especially if fixing is good in your cube.
Due to variance of pack distribution (generally only a fraction of the cubes cards are present in draft), one or two cards more/less per guild should get unnoticed in draft.
Careful with unbalancing shards though.. IE if you have 6 gruul, 6 golgari, 6 selsenya, 4 azorius, 4 izzet, 4 dimir.. You could be over supporting midrange vs control to a noticeable degree.
Since my cube/green section has excellent fixing, 3-4 color midrange decks are the norm, and are based around the color green. Because i love a lot of the green multicolor cards in midrange, I have slightly less mono green cards in my cube than the other colors... And slightly more green based multicolor cards.
This is an example where you can break rigid guild symmetry, while still considering cube balance.
Well, this is the sort of impact I expect from a seven mana 'walker in cube. FOUR relevant abilities, all decently costed, with a decent butt to start with. I think he slaps the tar out of Karn as he can produce direct win-cons by making 3/3's, which is a great bonus, but he's in a much narrower slot. Truth is, seven mana PWs don't really interest me much. I can only really ramp into them - Myr Battlesphere is fine for that, and I can reanimate it or Tinker it too. So it's a pass from me for Karn, Garruk v5, Bolas, and even Sun's Champion. Besides, this guy is a deep, deep pocket of B/G cards. I think he may be slightly better than Vraska, but then there's my hang-up on expensive Planeswakers so I'm not convinced I'd run it over V-slice.
To the people posting the usual fringe gold card self-congratulatory stuff about how they aren't constrained by having the same number of cards in each guild section and that it's based on power level alone (egad, the horror!), I damn well hope to see completely different numbers of mono-colour too when I open your cubetutor list, particularly a lot of blue... I would definitely have a lot of time for THAT cube.
It's too hard to make cuts, so I'm going to make lopsided guild sections in the name of "fun", and if you don't agree with me you must not know how to enjoy yourself.
I am not gonna make the same mistake I did with Elspeth, Sun's Champion and count her out due to her cost. I really like the first +1 in a cube context. I am in a lookout for cards to deal with planeswalkers and this is a pretty good one at that. It also does other relevant things. I will test this over Lotleth Troll, which hasn't performed as well as I had hoped. Time will tell if the 7 mana cost is too much, but it needs to be tested.
I think he's much worse than Karn. Not only is Karn colorless, but he also deals with everything (exile target permanent) at least twice (at -3, and he comes with 6 loyality into play). And he gets a massive loyality boost from his +4, and exiling a card from hand is also not shabby.
This Garruk doesn't look too bad either, it deals with creatures and planeswalkers, and adds board presence. But like someone already said, his removal option isn't much better than Vraska's and his tokens aren't much better than other Garruk's. I'm not sure that having both options combined in one planeswalker is worth the 7 mana. I don't think he's better than our current Golgari cards: Deathrite Shaman, Lotleth Troll, Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse, Pernicious Deed.
This is a good card, and probably wouldn't have been too broken at 6 mana. I can't find room in my Golgari section for a 7cc planeswalker though. It doesn't fit into what we do in that color combination very well, and the section is too tight as it is.
Yup good card, nope not going to play it. I think maybe as a white/black or white/blue I would play a planeswalker like this. Don't get me wrong I would draft this guy, but the comparison to Nicol Bolas seems appropriate. It doesn't exactly fit anywhere and it is not easy to cast. I am sure there are 5-Color control decks that would like it, but 50% of the cube fits in those decks already and they make up 10% of my table.
The comparisons with Karn are not surprising but I don't think Garruk stacks up. On of the best options with Karn is just exciling a card or two (sometimes from yourself), then restart the game for an easy win. Not to mention that it is my control decks who want Karn and are usally U/W
Really I put this guy on the same level as Vraska, fine but not for me. There are so many good planeswalkers for cube I am usually looking for an excuse not to use one.
As for ramp decks this guy doesn't work for me. All of my ramp decks have a cheap side plan (natural order, reanimate etc) planeswalekrs are not part of that. Xenogos, Garruk1 and 4, and Nissa help me get my fatties out and are much better at what I am trying to do. I need much cheaper removal to hold off the opponent so I can go over the top when the mana is there.
To the people posting the usual fringe gold card self-congratulatory stuff about how they aren't constrained by having the same number of cards in each guild section and that it's based on power level alone (egad, the horror!), I damn well hope to see completely different numbers of mono-colour too when I open your cubetutor list, particularly a lot of blue... I would definitely have a lot of time for THAT cube.
Sorry, but that is nonsense. Just because you don't balance your multi-color section doesn't mean you should also unbalance your color sections. Doing that (flagrantly, we actually don't have perfect balance in the color sections) is obviously going to lead to color-inbalance.
There's really no need to react so violently against the notion of guild imbalance. It's just a different way to design your cube that doesn't impact you if you don't want it to.
On topic: looks very powerful, but I'm really not looking for a multi-color 7-drop 'walker.
No, it doesn't affect me, but it sure does get tiresome reading the same 'this is such a cool card! Shame y'all are too close-minded to have space to run it! Color imbalance doesn't matter!' from the self-proclaimed blue-sky thinking brigade. A suitably tongue-in-cheek rebuttal was that those people should try applying the same logic across the board, and that there's nothing 'arbitrary' (I quote) about either method, if you care to think about it. Reacting 'violently'? Ha! That's a good mental image right there. Reacting with mirth was the intention and at least one person found it very funny, so I guess I did ok.
And before someone claims it wasn't obviously tongue-in-cheek, reflect for a second that I actually used the word 'egad'. So.... ya.
I like Garruk more than most of the rest of you seem to. He's something else interesting for green ramp to power out, which is nice since there aren't that many amazing huge creatures. He does a solid job of controlling the game when he hits. BG control is a thing in my cube. The problem is, as many others have mentioned, that BG is so competitive there isn't much room for him. I'm down to three cards per guild section, and Maelstrom Pulse, Pernicious Deed, and Lotleth Troll are all so good. Troll in particular really helps reanimator, and is a pet card of mine. DO I really want to cut insane green removal for a fun, big guy? I'll have to think on this.
Man I love this card, but in the end I just can't see putting this into the cube.
I think I would have a better time with it than folks with powered cubes, but cutting Lotleth Troll for this seems a tough sell. I may buy one after the hype calms down and stick it in the on-deck binder in case I end up completely off base.
Got to try him out, and was pretty impressed; my opinion of him went up quite a bit. Not quite Karn (few things are) in my opinion, but my friend who drafted said he'd rank him pretty high up there. A huge threat vs other decks; stabilizes the board incredibly well and deals with most annoying threats (creatures/PWs) pretty easily and could take over a game pretty well. 3/3s having deathtouch was pretty relevant too.
It's definitely unique and strong enough. The questions lie in its casting cost. Thankfully, it's green, so the splashability is on par with things like Simic Sky Swallower or Ruric Thar. But I think the edge goes to Vraska for coming down two turns earlier and solving many of the same problems.
I think it's reasonable to say that Vraska is a bit better at pure utility--she's cheaper and she *can* just straight-up destroy permanents. That being said, she's pretty bad at actually winning you the game--she doesn't do a whole lot while she's ticking up except make your opponent think a little harder than they'd have had to. The 3/3 deathtouchers that Garruk can tick up with are pretty amazing; there's no good way to deal with them in straight-up creature combat, and they're packing enough beef to be a credible threat.
Really, I think playing Garruk is just a matter of whether you want a big splashy finisher in your GB section. If you do, I don't think you can do better. If you don't, then you weren't looking at this card in the first place. He's strong enough to play, so it's just down to personal preference.
It's definitely unique and strong enough. The questions lie in its casting cost. Thankfully, it's green, so the splashability is on par with things like Simic Sky Swallower or Ruric Thar.
Maybe, but those two you can Reanimate or get with Natural Order or at least fetch with Survival of the Fittest. Garruk can count only with ramp.
All the other golgari cards in my cube are either extremly powerful, or serve an important roll in a supported archetype, so am not going to play it. But , more power to anyone who tests.
PS Also agree that PERFECT guild balance is far from a necessity and doesn't add anything to gameplay.
Archetype balance define cube balance far more than general color combinations. Rigidly sticking to color combination restrictions , despite other design factors; is just constraining yourself for an arbitrary reason. Especially if fixing is good in your cube.
Due to variance of pack distribution (generally only a fraction of the cubes cards are present in draft), one or two cards more/less per guild should get unnoticed in draft.
Careful with unbalancing shards though.. IE if you have 6 gruul, 6 golgari, 6 selsenya, 4 azorius, 4 izzet, 4 dimir.. You could be over supporting midrange vs control to a noticeable degree.
Since my cube/green section has excellent fixing, 3-4 color midrange decks are the norm, and are based around the color green. Because i love a lot of the green multicolor cards in midrange, I have slightly less mono green cards in my cube than the other colors... And slightly more green based multicolor cards.
This is an example where you can break rigid guild symmetry, while still considering cube balance.
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To the people posting the usual fringe gold card self-congratulatory stuff about how they aren't constrained by having the same number of cards in each guild section and that it's based on power level alone (egad, the horror!), I damn well hope to see completely different numbers of mono-colour too when I open your cubetutor list, particularly a lot of blue... I would definitely have a lot of time for THAT cube.
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This Garruk doesn't look too bad either, it deals with creatures and planeswalkers, and adds board presence. But like someone already said, his removal option isn't much better than Vraska's and his tokens aren't much better than other Garruk's. I'm not sure that having both options combined in one planeswalker is worth the 7 mana. I don't think he's better than our current Golgari cards: Deathrite Shaman, Lotleth Troll, Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse, Pernicious Deed.
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The comparisons with Karn are not surprising but I don't think Garruk stacks up. On of the best options with Karn is just exciling a card or two (sometimes from yourself), then restart the game for an easy win. Not to mention that it is my control decks who want Karn and are usally U/W
Really I put this guy on the same level as Vraska, fine but not for me. There are so many good planeswalkers for cube I am usually looking for an excuse not to use one.
As for ramp decks this guy doesn't work for me. All of my ramp decks have a cheap side plan (natural order, reanimate etc) planeswalekrs are not part of that. Xenogos, Garruk1 and 4, and Nissa help me get my fatties out and are much better at what I am trying to do. I need much cheaper removal to hold off the opponent so I can go over the top when the mana is there.
There's really no need to react so violently against the notion of guild imbalance. It's just a different way to design your cube that doesn't impact you if you don't want it to.
On topic: looks very powerful, but I'm really not looking for a multi-color 7-drop 'walker.
And before someone claims it wasn't obviously tongue-in-cheek, reflect for a second that I actually used the word 'egad'. So.... ya.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I think I would have a better time with it than folks with powered cubes, but cutting Lotleth Troll for this seems a tough sell. I may buy one after the hype calms down and stick it in the on-deck binder in case I end up completely off base.
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I'm very excited to try this guy. Our ramp decks rarely play black though, from what I recall, so we'll see if he sticks.
Really, I think playing Garruk is just a matter of whether you want a big splashy finisher in your GB section. If you do, I don't think you can do better. If you don't, then you weren't looking at this card in the first place. He's strong enough to play, so it's just down to personal preference.
Maybe, but those two you can Reanimate or get with Natural Order or at least fetch with Survival of the Fittest. Garruk can count only with ramp.
Karn first
Garruk +1 GG karn
Garruk first, 3/3 beast
Karn exiles garruk
Beast kills karn, Garruk wins through his progeny.
thats my cube
That deck also had Karn... but he only appeared when I had Garruk
That's fantastic. Plus there is still a beast behind. Also whoever is playing Nicol Bolas and not Garruk is doing it wrong.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
In case you're not just joking, no, you can't kill players with it.
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Why not? I wouldn't mind if that was the case.