MTG Salvation

Ratchet Bomb
Powder Keg

At what size would you run these cards? I am looking for more early plays for control decks against aggro, and these cards seem solid.

Probably one at 450 and the other at 540.

Thanks for the specific response! Just added them to my 720.

The more tokens you run, I think playing one at 360 is probably right. At 450 I play ratchet bomb and engineered explosives, powder keg is on-deck but I would probably need to be larger for it. Definitely by 720, and there you might want to play steel hellkite.

If you need some colored plays against aggro that are very good, but not popular here becasue many are worried about hating out aggro....

Omenspeaker
Augur of Bolas
Hornet's Nest
Pyroclasm
Nyx-Fleece Ram
Wall of Omens
Fettergeist
Moat
Teferi's Moat
Both Azorious Walls
Forked Bolt

While there was a time not too long ago I wasn't a huge fan of these cards (my opinion is a little different now), I think it should be noted that Ratchet Bomb is a fantastic answer for the five new flip-walkers.

Great point!

Also, if the Return to Zendikar brings us 5 more manlands this year, keep Powder Keg in mind, as it's an excellent answer to manlands for the same reason.

I'm not a big fan of running both, but one or the other seems pretty good. If you guys had to run one over the other, which would you choose? We'll assume the cube is mid-to-small sized and I'm going to run one and not two no matter what.

I like Ratchet Bomb more because it hits all nonland permanents, not just artifacts and creatures.

Probably Ratchet Bomb, but it's really nice for control decks to have cheap colorless answers that cold manlands.

It's a tough call for me. I'd run Ratchet Bomb in my cube, because I don't currently run manlands (I would really like to be able to run a full set of 10), but if I ran manlands, I'd agree with wtwlf and say that hitting manlands feels more relevant to me than hitting planeswalkers and enchantments.

I currently run just Ratchet Bomb. Hitting enchantments like Survival, Moat and Sylvan library makes it really good.

ratchet bomb has been excellent for me at 380 so far, primarily as a deterrent against token decks, but also to help out against the random jitte/survival/swords, etc. that are an annoyance on board. the flexibility in removal is really what im after with ratchet bomb

Yeah, given that there are like 3 cubable manlands, and given that control decks almost always have other ways to deal with creatures, but maybe not PW's or enchantments, ratchet bomb is probably just better in most cubes, although they will be the same card a lot of the time. We currently only run ratchet bomb at 465.

Edit - Forgot that factory, mutavault, and the nexi were a thing lol. Anyway, I still think the upside of ratchet bomb is higher.

Quote from asmallcat »

Yeah, given that there are like 3 cubable manlands,

Now that's a little harsh. I currently run 8 manlands at 480, and at least 4 of them (Mishra's, Mutavault, Colonnade, Tar Pit) were voted pretty high on the Power Rankings, while the others are still perfectly "cubable".

I agree it's still a bit too little, hence Keg was one of the cuts when I reduced from 540.

Quote from willdice »

Quote from asmallcat »

Yeah, given that there are like 3 cubable manlands,

Now that's a little harsh. I currently run 8 manlands at 480, and at least 4 of them (Mishra's, Mutavault, Colonnade, Tar Pit) were voted pretty high on the Power Rankings, while the others are still perfectly "cubable".

I agree it's still a bit too little, hence Keg was one of the cuts when I reduced from 540.

Oh god, I am an idiot. Totally forgot about the colorless ones.

Quote from Patrunkenphat7 »

Ratchet Bomb
Powder Keg

At what size would you run these cards? I am looking for more early plays for control decks against aggro, and these cards seem solid.

Does this question assume you are already running engineered explosives? I'd run that card over the two above first before I dipped into these two. If you need a lot of these effects though, I agree that both keg and bomb are very playable. Keg is a little slower, but as others have said it can hit manlands. I think being able to hit enchantments is more relevant though, so I like Ratchet Bomb a little more personally.

There are 8-9 manlands I would expect to see in every cube 450 or bigger.

I miscounted (I also forgot about the colorless ones ), but I only run Mutavault/Mishra's Factory. Which viable ones am I missing (aside from the Worldwake ones)? Treetop Village/Blinkmoth Nexus?

Faerie Conclave
Treetop Village
Celestial Colonnade
Creeping Tar Pit
Lavaclaw Reaches
Raging Ravine
Mutavault
Mishra's Factory
and maybe Stirring Wildwood

Are the ones I would expect to see at 450.

Quote from Cythare »

I miscounted (I also forgot about the colorless ones ), but I only run Mutavault/Mishra's Factory. Which viable ones am I missing (aside from the Worldwake ones)? Treetop Village/Blinkmoth Nexus?

Treetop and Faerie Conclave. And I wouldn't fault anyone running Ghitu Encampment either.


The Worldwake cycle is just as unbalanced as the Urza's Legacy one (except all five WWK ones are at least playable). I see no problem in someone running only part of either cycle, like I actually do. Also, there's a reason Creeping Tar Pit was the #1 Dimir card and Celestial Colonnade #2 Azorius in the Cube Power Rankings.

Back on topic, is Engineered Explosives and Ratchet Bomb enough at 720 or would you run Powder Keg as well. I am a big fan of the first two.

I run all 3 at 540, so yes.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

I run all 3 at 540, so yes.

Ok ill pick one up.

And once we do get enemy manlands, it'll increase the value of Powder Keg in comparison to Ratchet Bomb by another 50-75% of Keg's exclusive targets. Wouldn't be a bad idea to pick one up for the on-deck binder in prep for the next Zendikar block anyways. Plus, it also has value against cards that make lands become creatures, like Koth of the Hammer and Nissa, Worldwaker too. It currently has 11 pretty important targets in my 540 cube that can't be killed by Engineered Explosives or Ratchet Bomb. While the quantity of targets for Bomb is higher, control uses a lot of sorcery removal and sweepers to protect themselves, and manlands (and animated lands too) are a big threat to late game stability. Not to mention that it takes Bomb a lot more time to build up enough counters to deal with a lot of its exclusive targets, and Keg can immediately cold its respective threats the second it resolves.

Just my $0.02.