Shoutouts to the people posting their results so far in these threads; I've always wished people posted more results in these threads and glad to see more of it.
So Feldon of the Third Path has officially moved to the "in" column of my Cube. It's just a card that has to be dealt with or it gets out of hand. Opponent played it yesterday on T-3 with an empty graveyard. I felt fine about it. T-4 he played a Mox & Deranged Hermit. I then had one turn to deal with Feldon or risk things getting out of control in hurry. I couldn't even let him untap with Feldon.
Most of the time Feldon has died before doing broken things (I would say 80% which is crazy) but the other 20% he has lived has been tremendous. Giving red (midrange) another 3-drop that says "deal with me in a hurry or lose" is a very strong thing. Other colors have cards like that with Brimaz, Master of the Feast and Geist of St. Traft but giving red this plus Goblin Rabblemaster is really enhancing the color with more standalone threats.
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I'm really excited to see where red will be within the next year. I feel like my 540 will be able to support multiple archetypes besides red aggro. We can support the artifact deck with Daretti, Faithless Looting, Goblin Welder & Feldon. We can also support the Purphoros deck with Goblin Bombardment, Tempt with Vengeance and all the token makers in the Cube. Still deciding on the long-term viability of Sneak Attack in my particular Cube. I think supporting that archetype as well may be too much for red but we'll see. Overall I'm excited to diversify red.
Hallowed Spiritkeeper - Much better than I thought it was going to be. Plays kinda like a Finks in that you get 3 power with an upside and (typically) 2-power with an upside for 3 mana. It doesn't gain life or have a hybrid cost, but it has a higher ceiling and two relevant keyword abilities. B-, would play at 450; like it more than the 3cc double-strikers.
Flesh Carver - Great value. Splashable evasive 3-drop, value against removal, and a relevant sac outlet ability that can convert threats that will fail to apply pressure for additional power on one that will. A-, would play at 360.
Dualcaster Mage - Has a really high ceiling if you happen into a situation you can take advantage of early, or if you have the mana and the cards late in the game to copy a really good 2-3cc spell with it. The RR in the cost limits your ability to effectively pair it with your own burn, so look for 1-2cc off-color targets in your own deck. The 3cc nature of the card combined with the Flash aspect of its play lends it to being better in a reactive deck rather than an aggressive one. Look to play it in decks that like to pass the turn with mana open, like control decks and counter burn decks. It's also a solid tempo creature, assuming you have good off-color targets for it in the same deck. C+, it will probably be a 540/630 card in the long run, but I'll continue to test it at 450 for a while because the effect is so unique in the cube.
Feldon of the Third Path - This guy is really strong. However, for him to reach his full potential he'll want to be used in a cube that plays non-traditional red decks like the artifact.dec, Sneak decks and red reanimator packages. If you include those archetypes, he's a shoe-in, because the yard will be full of high-end targets, and he switches from just being a value card (like a red Mimic Vat of sorts on legs) to being a combo win condition with sick 'yard bodies to copy. B+, would cube at 450 as long as some of those archetypes are supported.
Daretti, Scrap Savant - If you support the artifact.dec, play this card. It's both the engine for getting the robots in the yard, and the ability to bring them into play. He's Goblin Welder's best friend, and it plays really well in the same kinds of decks that would play Feldon. The artifact.dec, reanimator, and to a lesser extent Sneak/Show kinds of decks want the effect. He's a solid Tezz kind of option for those decks, and I think he'll be a long-time contributor in my cube, because I love having red do interesting things. B+, would play at 450 if the artifact.dec is part of your archetype suite.
Song of the Dryads - Probably green's best option for mitigating threats. Not great for denying mana-engine cards like mana dorks, moxen and mana rocks ...but if the goal is to put a stop to an opponent's powerful threat, this is the card. It's like a combination of Vindicate and Path to Exile with an Oblivion Ring kind of drawback to it (although it doesn't re-trigger ETB effects on the targets if it gets removed, which has already shown to be relevant vs Ring effects). A-, I'd play this card at 360, it's green's best removal option.
Missing the cut:
Malicious Affliction - Both the Morbid trigger and the BB requirement proved to be significant hurdles when I needed the effect, and it lost the head-to-head fight with Go for the Throat for the 2cc targeted removal slot. I think I'd be more willing to use it over a card like Doom Blade or Ultimate Price, but it just didn't hack it for 450. C-, would probably play at 540/630, but nothing smaller than that.
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath - This guy is strong, to be sure. Probably black's second best 5-drop behind Shriekmaw. A 5/5 flier up front that leaves a planeswalker body behind; with the ultimate goal being a second 5/5 flier with "suspend" of sorts. The first body can defend the weakened 'walker if need be. I'm testing out some additional Pox/Stax cards at 450 right now so it missed the cut, but I wouldn't mind bringing him in in the future. C+, probably good enough for 450, but I currently have him missing the cut. Might be the wrong call, and I'll be keeping my eye out for an opening to bring it in.
Hmm... Maybe I will try out daretti.. Great write up wtw!
I thought long and hard and changed my mind on song of dryads as well, added it in cube, but I havent seen it action yet.
Partially inspired by drafting a sweet GR agro/midrange deck and repeatedly getting smashed by wurmcoil engine and baneslayer angel in back to back matches. Underestimated the creature exile clause.
I cut feldon after a few drafts, only because he didn't have a clear home. If I go really deep on red graveyard shenagins, maybe ill give him another run. Daretti is a step in that direction.
Still have no desire to test dualcaster mage and glad testing reports have confirmed he's underperforming.
I also cut malicious affliction... Morbid was very tough to turn on in decks that weren't black agro/sacrifice. In the other decks it was quite a bit more restrictive than GFTT. There were many black decks I saw that had too many removal spells, and were cutting some. Indicating I likely had more than enough black removal in my cube... I like GFFT better and it was currently at the bottom of the list I run.
Want at least 1 2 mana edict effect (diabloic or chainers), consuming vapors is one of blacks only lifegain source, hero's downfall is too versatile to cut, dismember is too splashable to cut, ETB 187-removal synergizes with reanimator strategies, and then there's GFTT.. Doesn't leave room for malicious affliction.
Fleshcarver is amazing. It's either #1 or #2 black 3 drop, competing with ophiomancer. #3 is way in the distance
In my opinion there's no reason to run Tombstalker over Ob Nixilis. It is almost a strict upgrade.
I support red's role in reanimator and the artifact deck as well, but Feldon did not make the cut because of his cost and activation. I might give him a try sometime though.
I agree with your assessment on the other cards. I've played with them and they were all pretty impressive.
I'll back Ob Nixilis. I got a chance to see him in action 3 times over the weekend and today, and he was a very powerful card when he's online. Making a demon and then losing Ob is the worst case scenario,but more often than not you'll get 2 out of him, and anything beyond that is in the realm of BCS.
Shoutouts to the people posting their results so far in these threads; I've always wished people posted more results in these threads and glad to see more of it.
Here here! As someone who usually waits a few weeks for prices to stabilize, reading results before I acquire cards is great.
I'm surprised to see Malicious Affliction getting cut already as its been solid here. It's been a great answer to opponent's spot removal and it creates opportunities for mind games during combat. Yeah it's a black removal spell that actually has to be played in a deck with more than 3 swamps, but if you're not just splashing we haven't found the BB to be prohibiting at all.
Exactly my thought; the card's been great here. The player who had it last night when we Cubed managed to trigger the Morbid clause multiple times in the draft.
Also, we've had these cards for less than a week? It's funny how people are dismissing certain cards with so little playtime and immediately cutting them without further testing.
Yeah it's a black removal spell that actually has to be played in a deck with more than 3 swamps, but if you're not just splashing we haven't found the BB to be prohibiting at all.
I think you're dramatically underestimating the mana cost requirement for double-colored spells. In order to have a 75% chance of playing this spell by turn 4, you'll need 10 sources of black. Combining that with the unstable nature of Morbid led to a really inconsistent removal spell, which is exactly what I don't want from my removal.
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Also, we've had these cards for less than a week?
Assuming you waited until after the set came out to test things, yes. But you only need a card to be terrible a few times before you can be confidant in cutting it. Like, if a card is bad in back to back to back drafts, I'd just rather use something that won't be.
But it's perfectly reasonable to expect a two colour deck to have 10 sources of black. The card isn't for splashing - you need to be in black. But if you are in black it's solid. It's been used in aggro decks to create space against midrange (baiting by attacking with a bear), and it's been used defensively after a chump block. When you don't hit Morbid it's a kill spell that you can't just splash for. But when you hit Morbid it has a huge effect on the board. And Morbid isn't that hard to hit.
Especially in black. I wasn't planning on testing this card, but I threw it into a draft on a whim and ended up getting to play it. I was playing black heavy aggro, so I definitely had the right deck for it, and I was really impressed. It won me a couple games I would have likely lost against a green/white midrange deck. I blew out his BSA and a beast token one game to push through for lethal. After that my opponent was pretty wary whenever I had double black up and I was able to sneak in some extra damage by effectively bluffing that I was trying to trigger morbid so he wouldn't block my guy. Overall that draft was probably a higher than average case scenario for the card, but I'm still very impressed. I had low expectations and I was pleasantly surprised.
But it's perfectly reasonable to expect a two colour deck to have 10 sources of black. The card isn't for splashing - you need to be in black. But if you are in black it's solid. It's been used in aggro decks to create space against midrange (baiting by attacking with a bear), and it's been used defensively after a chump block. When you don't hit Morbid it's a kill spell that you can't just splash for. But when you hit Morbid it has a huge effect on the board. And Morbid isn't that hard to hit.
This is exactly how I feel. Not every card should be splashable. I like to reward a player to be in 2 colors vs a 3-5 color good stuff deck, which is where Go For the Throat will end up. Its perfectly fine without the morbid, that just makes it great.
Out of all the cards in this set, I think Song of the Dryads is a #1 staple that will sticks in my cube the longest, if it'll ever get cut. It adds so much to green because it's a green removal. It's follow pretty closely by Flesh Carver, which in the last draft combo pretty nicely with Deranged Hermit.
I'll recommend Feldon of the Third Path to anyone else who have a copy as well. It's a pretty fun card at a nice power level. 3 drops that draws removal to itself is pretty good deal.
I'll recommend Feldon of the Third Path to anyone else who have a copy as well. It's a pretty fun card at a nice power level. 3 drops that draws removal to itself is pretty good deal.
Yeah this guy has been very good, and much more versatile than I originally thought (added him for red reanimator but he's been grabbed by everyone in red that's not playing aggro pretty much). I can see this guy being in our cube for a long time - I have him pegged around #3~4 3-drop for red.
Finally got a chance to draft last night after adding in the Commander 2014 cards. We only 2-man'ed it up, so not every card was seen.
Flesh Carver did nothing for my opponent, but that's because I immediately stole it with a Sower of Temptation. It did awesome things for me, however, as it combo'ed with a Scuttling Doom Engine and a Volrath's Stronghold for ridiculous amounts of damage. Although any sac outlet would have been good in that situation. One with no mana cost to activate might have even been better. I still think this guy will be solid, though, since this is a very very small sample size.
Malicious Affliction was cast three times. Once without morbid. Twice with morbid. The dub black didn't seem like much of a burden in my opponent's two color deck.
Ob Nix was also cast three times. In two games he made a demon and then died either in combat the next turn or to burn. In the next game my opponent decided (for some unknown reason) to just use the + ability. He hit me for three total. I'm pretty sure I won that game.
The first time Titania was cast, she brought back a fetch land. A few turns later Ravages of War was cast. I scooped. In the next game she brought back a land that I had been blown up with a Strip Mine earlier. The third and last time she was played, she got no value. Ravages the following turn was countered. Good effort, though. My verdict is that she's solid in a mid to larger cube. She's good in basically any deck that Life From the Loam is good in, but she's got some steep competition at the 5cc slot in green.
I would not discount Titania in smaller cubes, the fact that you can create a cube with a higher concentration of cards to get value out of her is important if you are looking to push an interesting archetype around some sort of land destruction deck.
I would not discount Titania in smaller cubes, the fact that you can create a cube with a higher concentration of cards to get value out of her is important if you are looking to push an interesting archetype around some sort of land destruction deck.
She also pairs nicely with Knight of the Reliquary and Life from the Loam styled decks; two already strong cards in their own right. If at worst she gets me one extra land off a fetch and 2 5/3 bodies, that's already very solid.
Malicious Affliction was cast three times. Once without morbid. Twice with morbid. The dub black didn't seem like much of a burden in my opponent's two color deck.
You know what I really like about this card? The bluff factor. The threat of a total blowout allows you to play all kinds of Jedi mind tricks on the opponent... so the card is still putting in work, even when it's not in your hand :).
I just don't get the concern over the double black in MA. No one is dropping hypnotic spectre or hero's downfall. I have a problem with black knight cards but this isn't the same thing.
It may be generating a fell bad when the upside is inaccessible, but the floor is not bad. Those calling this unreliable might as well call arc lightning unreliability.
It might not reach 360 for some as black removal is so deep, but this card is good in my book.
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Most of the time Feldon has died before doing broken things (I would say 80% which is crazy) but the other 20% he has lived has been tremendous. Giving red (midrange) another 3-drop that says "deal with me in a hurry or lose" is a very strong thing. Other colors have cards like that with Brimaz, Master of the Feast and Geist of St. Traft but giving red this plus Goblin Rabblemaster is really enhancing the color with more standalone threats.
[Sidebar]
I'm really excited to see where red will be within the next year. I feel like my 540 will be able to support multiple archetypes besides red aggro. We can support the artifact deck with Daretti, Faithless Looting, Goblin Welder & Feldon. We can also support the Purphoros deck with Goblin Bombardment, Tempt with Vengeance and all the token makers in the Cube. Still deciding on the long-term viability of Sneak Attack in my particular Cube. I think supporting that archetype as well may be too much for red but we'll see. Overall I'm excited to diversify red.
[/Sidebar]
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
Making the grade:
Hallowed Spiritkeeper - Much better than I thought it was going to be. Plays kinda like a Finks in that you get 3 power with an upside and (typically) 2-power with an upside for 3 mana. It doesn't gain life or have a hybrid cost, but it has a higher ceiling and two relevant keyword abilities. B-, would play at 450; like it more than the 3cc double-strikers.
Flesh Carver - Great value. Splashable evasive 3-drop, value against removal, and a relevant sac outlet ability that can convert threats that will fail to apply pressure for additional power on one that will. A-, would play at 360.
Dualcaster Mage - Has a really high ceiling if you happen into a situation you can take advantage of early, or if you have the mana and the cards late in the game to copy a really good 2-3cc spell with it. The RR in the cost limits your ability to effectively pair it with your own burn, so look for 1-2cc off-color targets in your own deck. The 3cc nature of the card combined with the Flash aspect of its play lends it to being better in a reactive deck rather than an aggressive one. Look to play it in decks that like to pass the turn with mana open, like control decks and counter burn decks. It's also a solid tempo creature, assuming you have good off-color targets for it in the same deck. C+, it will probably be a 540/630 card in the long run, but I'll continue to test it at 450 for a while because the effect is so unique in the cube.
Feldon of the Third Path - This guy is really strong. However, for him to reach his full potential he'll want to be used in a cube that plays non-traditional red decks like the artifact.dec, Sneak decks and red reanimator packages. If you include those archetypes, he's a shoe-in, because the yard will be full of high-end targets, and he switches from just being a value card (like a red Mimic Vat of sorts on legs) to being a combo win condition with sick 'yard bodies to copy. B+, would cube at 450 as long as some of those archetypes are supported.
Daretti, Scrap Savant - If you support the artifact.dec, play this card. It's both the engine for getting the robots in the yard, and the ability to bring them into play. He's Goblin Welder's best friend, and it plays really well in the same kinds of decks that would play Feldon. The artifact.dec, reanimator, and to a lesser extent Sneak/Show kinds of decks want the effect. He's a solid Tezz kind of option for those decks, and I think he'll be a long-time contributor in my cube, because I love having red do interesting things. B+, would play at 450 if the artifact.dec is part of your archetype suite.
Song of the Dryads - Probably green's best option for mitigating threats. Not great for denying mana-engine cards like mana dorks, moxen and mana rocks ...but if the goal is to put a stop to an opponent's powerful threat, this is the card. It's like a combination of Vindicate and Path to Exile with an Oblivion Ring kind of drawback to it (although it doesn't re-trigger ETB effects on the targets if it gets removed, which has already shown to be relevant vs Ring effects). A-, I'd play this card at 360, it's green's best removal option.
Missing the cut:
Malicious Affliction - Both the Morbid trigger and the BB requirement proved to be significant hurdles when I needed the effect, and it lost the head-to-head fight with Go for the Throat for the 2cc targeted removal slot. I think I'd be more willing to use it over a card like Doom Blade or Ultimate Price, but it just didn't hack it for 450. C-, would probably play at 540/630, but nothing smaller than that.
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath - This guy is strong, to be sure. Probably black's second best 5-drop behind Shriekmaw. A 5/5 flier up front that leaves a planeswalker body behind; with the ultimate goal being a second 5/5 flier with "suspend" of sorts. The first body can defend the weakened 'walker if need be. I'm testing out some additional Pox/Stax cards at 450 right now so it missed the cut, but I wouldn't mind bringing him in in the future. C+, probably good enough for 450, but I currently have him missing the cut. Might be the wrong call, and I'll be keeping my eye out for an opening to bring it in.
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I thought long and hard and changed my mind on song of dryads as well, added it in cube, but I havent seen it action yet.
Partially inspired by drafting a sweet GR agro/midrange deck and repeatedly getting smashed by wurmcoil engine and baneslayer angel in back to back matches. Underestimated the creature exile clause.
I cut feldon after a few drafts, only because he didn't have a clear home. If I go really deep on red graveyard shenagins, maybe ill give him another run. Daretti is a step in that direction.
Still have no desire to test dualcaster mage and glad testing reports have confirmed he's underperforming.
I also cut malicious affliction... Morbid was very tough to turn on in decks that weren't black agro/sacrifice. In the other decks it was quite a bit more restrictive than GFTT. There were many black decks I saw that had too many removal spells, and were cutting some. Indicating I likely had more than enough black removal in my cube... I like GFFT better and it was currently at the bottom of the list I run.
Want at least 1 2 mana edict effect (diabloic or chainers), consuming vapors is one of blacks only lifegain source, hero's downfall is too versatile to cut, dismember is too splashable to cut, ETB 187-removal synergizes with reanimator strategies, and then there's GFTT.. Doesn't leave room for malicious affliction.
Fleshcarver is amazing. It's either #1 or #2 black 3 drop, competing with ophiomancer. #3 is way in the distance
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I support red's role in reanimator and the artifact deck as well, but Feldon did not make the cut because of his cost and activation. I might give him a try sometime though.
I agree with your assessment on the other cards. I've played with them and they were all pretty impressive.
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http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/993
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/23690
This isn't even remotely accurate.
Pretty much what I was thinking.
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Also, we've had these cards for less than a week? It's funny how people are dismissing certain cards with so little playtime and immediately cutting them without further testing.
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I think you're dramatically underestimating the mana cost requirement for double-colored spells. In order to have a 75% chance of playing this spell by turn 4, you'll need 10 sources of black. Combining that with the unstable nature of Morbid led to a really inconsistent removal spell, which is exactly what I don't want from my removal.
Assuming you waited until after the set came out to test things, yes. But you only need a card to be terrible a few times before you can be confidant in cutting it. Like, if a card is bad in back to back to back drafts, I'd just rather use something that won't be.
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But it's perfectly reasonable to expect a two colour deck to have 10 sources of black. The card isn't for splashing - you need to be in black. But if you are in black it's solid. It's been used in aggro decks to create space against midrange (baiting by attacking with a bear), and it's been used defensively after a chump block. When you don't hit Morbid it's a kill spell that you can't just splash for. But when you hit Morbid it has a huge effect on the board. And Morbid isn't that hard to hit.
Especially in black. I wasn't planning on testing this card, but I threw it into a draft on a whim and ended up getting to play it. I was playing black heavy aggro, so I definitely had the right deck for it, and I was really impressed. It won me a couple games I would have likely lost against a green/white midrange deck. I blew out his BSA and a beast token one game to push through for lethal. After that my opponent was pretty wary whenever I had double black up and I was able to sneak in some extra damage by effectively bluffing that I was trying to trigger morbid so he wouldn't block my guy. Overall that draft was probably a higher than average case scenario for the card, but I'm still very impressed. I had low expectations and I was pleasantly surprised.
This is exactly how I feel. Not every card should be splashable. I like to reward a player to be in 2 colors vs a 3-5 color good stuff deck, which is where Go For the Throat will end up. Its perfectly fine without the morbid, that just makes it great.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
Thanks all for your suggestions - I'll be testing the following at 620 powered (rough order of excitement/faith that they'll stick around):
Flesh Carver
Dualcaster Mage
Song of the Dryads
Malicious Affliction
Hallowed Spiritkeeper
Feldon of the Third Path
I'll recommend Feldon of the Third Path to anyone else who have a copy as well. It's a pretty fun card at a nice power level. 3 drops that draws removal to itself is pretty good deal.
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Song of the Dryads was really good. Id consider this a staple as I doubt green will get a better removal spell anytime soon.
Hallowed Spiritkeeper was outstanding. It won a couple of games that were unwinnable otherwise.
Malicious Affliction was never cast with morbid, but was fine as is.
Ob Nixilis was drafted but never cast.
Nothing else came up this time.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
Yeah this guy has been very good, and much more versatile than I originally thought (added him for red reanimator but he's been grabbed by everyone in red that's not playing aggro pretty much). I can see this guy being in our cube for a long time - I have him pegged around #3~4 3-drop for red.
Flesh Carver did nothing for my opponent, but that's because I immediately stole it with a Sower of Temptation. It did awesome things for me, however, as it combo'ed with a Scuttling Doom Engine and a Volrath's Stronghold for ridiculous amounts of damage. Although any sac outlet would have been good in that situation. One with no mana cost to activate might have even been better. I still think this guy will be solid, though, since this is a very very small sample size.
Malicious Affliction was cast three times. Once without morbid. Twice with morbid. The dub black didn't seem like much of a burden in my opponent's two color deck.
Ob Nix was also cast three times. In two games he made a demon and then died either in combat the next turn or to burn. In the next game my opponent decided (for some unknown reason) to just use the + ability. He hit me for three total. I'm pretty sure I won that game.
The first time Titania was cast, she brought back a fetch land. A few turns later Ravages of War was cast. I scooped. In the next game she brought back a land that I had been blown up with a Strip Mine earlier. The third and last time she was played, she got no value. Ravages the following turn was countered. Good effort, though. My verdict is that she's solid in a mid to larger cube. She's good in basically any deck that Life From the Loam is good in, but she's got some steep competition at the 5cc slot in green.
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She also pairs nicely with Knight of the Reliquary and Life from the Loam styled decks; two already strong cards in their own right. If at worst she gets me one extra land off a fetch and 2 5/3 bodies, that's already very solid.
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You know what I really like about this card? The bluff factor. The threat of a total blowout allows you to play all kinds of Jedi mind tricks on the opponent... so the card is still putting in work, even when it's not in your hand :).
It may be generating a fell bad when the upside is inaccessible, but the floor is not bad. Those calling this unreliable might as well call arc lightning unreliability.
It might not reach 360 for some as black removal is so deep, but this card is good in my book.