Whisperwood Elemental 3GG
Creature - Elemental
At the beginning of your upkeep, manifest the top card of your library. (Put it onto the battlefield face down as a 2/2 creature. Turn it face up any time for its mana cost if it's a creature card)
Sacrifice Whisperwood Elemental: Until end of turn, face-up, nontoken creatures you control gain "When this creature dies, manifest the top card of your library."
4/4
Reminds me a bit of Master of the Wild Hunt, being an okay body that also gives you a 2/2 each turn. But rather than the group-wolf-fight ability, it has the ability to give you more 2/2's from your other normal dudes when your opponent wraths.
Add in the chance of flipping up your manifested dudes into real threats and this guy seems very intriguing.
I know the 5-slot is STACKED in green at the moment, but this guy definitely seems worth considering, IMO, at 540 or so.
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Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
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I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
I don't think it looks that spectacular. It's decent, but the 5cc green slot is jammed up with fantastic stuff, and this guy seems worse than Master of the Wild Hunt ...for more mana. Just don't see it happening in the cube.
I feel like its power mostly comes from helping mitigate wrath effects with its sacrifice ability. I could see testing it if only for that. The competition is fierce though.
Competition is high, but I like him. Manifesting gives you a bear and card advantage, not quite like "draw a card" but almost as good, sometimes even better when you manifest a land or creature.
I don't think this card can compete at 5 in green, but I love the ability! Hopefully we get a cubable bomb. Dash is also a cool mechanic that would be sweet with an ETB trigger. Fingers crossed for this set!
Yes, Green's five slot is extremely deep with about 8+ viable options. This would be on the outside of those, for me. Manifest is pretty fantastic though, hope we see something cubeable from that mechanic.
Manifest is a highly intriguing ability that will take some amount of testing to see what the true cube ramifications look like. Let's see -- you won't get any ETB triggers from it, but you can cheat with blink...you can manifest a card that has a discounted morph cost or a turned-face-up trigger....But, perhaps, the most important part of manifest's function is the new level they've added to the Guess-the-Morph sub-game. Is it a creature that needs to be killed? Is it a land? Is it a sorcery with Flashback? It could literally be anything in your deck. Perhaps the go-to play is to just take no chances; I have a Juza-like fear of the unknown and would probably throw my fair share of removal spells at basic lands.
The second ability is just patently absurd though. It shores up a critical weakness of green, which is sweepers. I don't see why this card wouldn't be cube playable, 5 drops are either high power, high synergy, or high utility, and this guy fills multiple categories. As far as first impressions go, I like the "new card smell" of it, and can easily see taking out a more bland green 5 drop like Wolfir Silverheart or Kalonian Hydra, powerful though they may be.
Manifest is the first mechanic I've been legitimately excited about in a long time.
Its beginning of your end step, not upkeep, which makes it slightly better I suppose.
I'm not interested personally.
Maybe I'm wrong. //shrug
I think it's much better. If your opponent is tapped out, you'll get an activation out of it. If not, he can't touch it before activation if he only has sorcery speed removal. I think the difference is very sound.
Yeah, End Step vs Upkeep here is a critical difference that I missed. That means that he's 6 power basically right away, rather than waiting on the 5th and 6th point until your next turn.
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Something else I just realized. Morphs are non-token creatures. So every dude he spits out is protected by his sacrifice ability. Veeeeerry interesting.
@hopeful: Problem is, Green's four slot is underpopulated, and its five slot has the opposite issue. The equivalent power 'four mana version' of this would likely make the cut quite comfortably for us. However, I do like that it's an end of turn activation so you're guaranteed another body in most instances. The fact that the other creatures can turn into their proper selves makes this pretty interesting, and the kinda-wrath-insurance is really nice. I've warmed to this card since yesterday and it's on my radar so I hope others test it out. Plus it's more interesting than the likes of Kalonian Hydra and Vorapede, so it could potentially slot in over the latter for us (K Hydra is out already now) as a removal-proof 5 mana dude.
On one hand, I like manifest. Turning the top cards of your library into morphs is pretty cool. On the other hand, I dislike how there are now two distinct types of morphs that have to be kept seperate. The morph "tokens" surely help here, but handling those tokens if your cube/deck contains both traditional morphs and manifest cards would be annoying.
The card itself is both strong and interesting. The main problem is that green's 5-drop slot is super tight. (Btw, I think the 4-drop slot is almost as tight, so it wouldn't really matter if this were a 3/3 for 4.)
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
Why do manifest and morph need to be kept separate? They're both face down 2/2s.
It must be kept separate for a few reasons:
So you don't manifest a morph creature, then try to morph something other than a morph creature and swap them around.
So you don't try to flip a creature cast via morph for a cheaper manifest cost.
They both have the same copiable values, but the rules baggage that comes with each is different. Also, because Tabak said so when I asked him.
EDIT: I missed that you were responding to that as a strike against manifest, so...carry on.
Why do manifest and morph need to be kept separate? They're both face down 2/2s.
The creatures themselves are identical, but how they can be turned face-up works differently:
- You can turn a face-down creature without morph that was manifested face-up by paying its mana cost.
- You can't turn a face-down creature with morph face-up by paying its mana cost unless it was also manifested. (You have to pay the morph cost.)
- You can't turn a face-down creature without morph that was not manifested face-up at all.
The reminder text for this is on the manifest morph token, which is different from the regular morph token.
I totally get that the five slot in green is tighter. I was just saying that even with cost considered this guy isn't worse than master of the hunt. Even with boosted p/t (4/4)master of the hunt wouldn't beat any other 5 drop contenders. This guy is better, but no way does it outclass Deranged Hermit, Kalonian Hydra, Acidic Slime, or Thragtusk. For me it's about whether this can jump Wolfir Silverheart or Vorapede.
Im in the same boat, I do like this guy, but Im not sure I like him better than Wolfir Silverheart or Vorapede, the latter is very underrated. Ill probably not include him unless i hear amazing things.
I agree about Vorapede being very underrated. I think the switch, should I make one, would be Wolfir Silverheart and here is why. Wolfir Silverheart is dependent on another card to get full value from him and at the end of the stay he's just a stat booster. Kalonian Hydra is a house by itself and has built in evasion to boot. Wolfir can get chumped. This guy doesn't offer the same power as Wolfir, but he does grant card advantage to green which is excellent. You can worldly tutor a creature you need to the top, manifest it and flip it. He also provides wrath insurance to green which is bonus for ramp decks. Also the fun level of this guy is off the charts. If anything prompts the switch it will be knowing that Manifest is 10x more interesting in games then Wolfir Silverheart's stat boosting.
I agree that Wolfir is much less interesting, I tend to lean towards a card that makes games more exciting than just absolute raw power. Ill definitely consider testing him.
I might actually try this over Vorapede. I really like Vorapede, but the triple green is sometimes keeping it from decks. I also think that manifest sounds like it would be interesting to play out in cube, and I'm not even currently running any morphs in my cube.
Whisperwood Elemental 3GG
Creature - Elemental
At the beginning of your upkeep, manifest the top card of your library. (Put it onto the battlefield face down as a 2/2 creature. Turn it face up any time for its mana cost if it's a creature card)
Sacrifice Whisperwood Elemental: Until end of turn, face-up, nontoken creatures you control gain "When this creature dies, manifest the top card of your library."
4/4
Reminds me a bit of Master of the Wild Hunt, being an okay body that also gives you a 2/2 each turn. But rather than the group-wolf-fight ability, it has the ability to give you more 2/2's from your other normal dudes when your opponent wraths.
Add in the chance of flipping up your manifested dudes into real threats and this guy seems very intriguing.
I know the 5-slot is STACKED in green at the moment, but this guy definitely seems worth considering, IMO, at 540 or so.
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I'm not interested personally.
Maybe I'm wrong. //shrug
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No way fOr small. Not enough synergy potential and a bit slow
Draws a card A turn starting on ur end step and gives team wrath protectIon.
Helps if u want to suicide your board into theirs too
Any card that takes over the game by itself for 5 mana, generates value vs sorcery speed removal and no additional investment is worthy of attention.
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Yes, Green's five slot is extremely deep with about 8+ viable options. This would be on the outside of those, for me. Manifest is pretty fantastic though, hope we see something cubeable from that mechanic.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
The second ability is just patently absurd though. It shores up a critical weakness of green, which is sweepers. I don't see why this card wouldn't be cube playable, 5 drops are either high power, high synergy, or high utility, and this guy fills multiple categories. As far as first impressions go, I like the "new card smell" of it, and can easily see taking out a more bland green 5 drop like Wolfir Silverheart or Kalonian Hydra, powerful though they may be.
Manifest is the first mechanic I've been legitimately excited about in a long time.
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I think it's much better. If your opponent is tapped out, you'll get an activation out of it. If not, he can't touch it before activation if he only has sorcery speed removal. I think the difference is very sound.
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The card itself is both strong and interesting. The main problem is that green's 5-drop slot is super tight. (Btw, I think the 4-drop slot is almost as tight, so it wouldn't really matter if this were a 3/3 for 4.)
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So someone doesnt morph a card from their hand that doesnt have morph.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
So you don't manifest a morph creature, then try to morph something other than a morph creature and swap them around.
So you don't try to flip a creature cast via morph for a cheaper manifest cost.
They both have the same copiable values, but the rules baggage that comes with each is different. Also, because Tabak said so when I asked him.
EDIT: I missed that you were responding to that as a strike against manifest, so...carry on.
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- You can turn a face-down creature without morph that was manifested face-up by paying its mana cost.
- You can't turn a face-down creature with morph face-up by paying its mana cost unless it was also manifested. (You have to pay the morph cost.)
- You can't turn a face-down creature without morph that was not manifested face-up at all.
The reminder text for this is on the manifest morph token, which is different from the regular morph token.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Im in the same boat, I do like this guy, but Im not sure I like him better than Wolfir Silverheart or Vorapede, the latter is very underrated. Ill probably not include him unless i hear amazing things.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
I agree that Wolfir is much less interesting, I tend to lean towards a card that makes games more exciting than just absolute raw power. Ill definitely consider testing him.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
I think Master is a better 4-drop than this guy is a 5-drop. And that's regardless of the competition.
Neither does this card.
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