My question:
- What identity does black have in your cube?
- What do you open/crack that makes you think "oh yeah, I'm in black tonight!"?
I feel that black has plenty of solid cards, but many are great support/splash cards maybe?
Perhaps I'm in the minority?
Plainly put, black is the least drafted color in my cube.
WHen it was 400 powered, or now as a 166 powered 2-player version...it rarely gets drafted early.
Reading the forums for while,I hunch I'm not the only one feeling this way...
* Large number of very efficient one drops and three drops
* Discard, which is the easiest way for aggro to deal with tricky 'walkers and Wrath effects
* Efficiently costed effects at the cost of life, which are at their best in aggro where the drawback is often irrelevant
* Good curve toppers like Nether Void and Master of the Feast
Lots of generic 'goodstuff' for any deck type:
* Efficient and non-cardtype specific tutoring effects
* Discard to cover your deck's weakness, whatever that is
* The usual suspects with really high power, like Bitterblossom, Rec. Nightmare, the Tutors, Braids, Bob... Black has a lot of first pickable cards if you want P1P1's to draw you into it.
* Decent removal for large creatures and hexproof/shrouded ones
Primary reanimator colour:
* Entomb, Exhume, Reanimate etc., discard outlets, and this is a 'combo' deck that can just slot into a midrange or control shell
* Tutors to get the missing pieces
Making grindy/stax decks:
* Good token production effects and ways to abuse that via sacrifice outlets
* Recurring creatures like Bloodsoaked Champion, Gravecrawler etc.
* Tutors to get the missing pieces if you're going a combo route.
Overall black has some unique effects that no other colour gets, so it has a strong identity. It's my favourite colour to play overall and left to my own devices I will often end up with a B/W or B/W aggro deck, a B/R reanimator deck, or some kind of Junk or B/U control.
Otherwise, Black has some nice combo outlet as well. I like playing Storm, Reanimator or Stax in this color! Yawgmoth's Will, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Tendrils of Agony, Necropotence, Recurring Nightmare, Bitterblossom or even Ophiomancer are high on my pick list. Stuff like Nether Void are also pretty good to lock the board when you're already ahead.
I consider myself a Blue/Red mage through and through, but lately I've noticed I have a tendency to go toward the dark side. One of the main reasons I always end up in Black these days is because I feel like it leaves me open more than any other color. Like goodking thoroughly mentioned above, Black has a lot of versatility. Cards like Bitterblossom and Ophiomancer are cards I'll take highly because I know I can put them into any deck and be pleased with how they work. They also act as great catalysts for other strong strategies that might present themselves over the course of a draft like Tokens/Anthem, Pox, Opposition, Recurring Nightmare, and Goblin Bombardment/Purphoros.
I think your view of black as a secondary color isn't a bad thing, and think that black is one of the more strait forward colors. Black has the best spot removal and hand disruption, and people will splash for that in any archetype. Again, I really like the versatility that black has to offer in this regard.
I think the reason people don't go all in on black is because of the commitment it's powerful archetypes need, and the inability to wow people with its other strategies out of the gate. BlackAggro has gotten very powerful over the last year with the insane amount of 1 and 3 drops that Wizards have printed, but you don't see people P1P1 Bloodsoaked Champion or Bob like you might see someone do with Goblin Guide or Hero of Bladehold. Same theory could be said about reanimator, as many people will pass these effects because they 1. Don't have discard outlets, 2. don't know if they will get the juicy creatures, and 3. don't know how many more reanimation effects they will see later on in the draft. If you commit to these strategies early though, I think they are some of the more powerful in the cube, and also fun to play.
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Black is a fantastic color in the cube. It is the cornerstone of several decks, it has a really high-end top shelf of cards, and it has a deep suite of cards available that support every theater. It's baffling to me how some cube managers can't seem to get it to work right.
Quote from mgreener_34 »
you don't see people P1P1 Bloodsoaked Champion or Bob like you might see someone do with Goblin Guide or Hero of Bladehold.
No, you don't see people P1P1 those cards. We see people P1P1 Dark Confidant more often than we see people take Hero. Black aggro is really popular.
Just some cards that satisfy the second question that the OP asked:
What cards make me decide to go into black:
Pack Rat: I loathe to pass this card.
Grave Titan: I know that if I'm in any sort of B/x control, reanimator, midrange or whatever, this will be pretty much the best use of 6 mana out there.
Bitterblossom: Works well in almost any deck.
Griselbrand: I probably pick this higher than most, but I've taken this early so many times, and I just love cheating this guy out.
Liliana of the Veil: Just a really nice planeswalker, and a good reason to go into black.
I can't really add to what Goodking has already said, so I'll share the main cards that send me in to black in the first few picks:
Recurring Nightmare: RecSur is possibly my favorite cube deck.
Mind Twist: After the blue Power 9, this is possibly the most broken colored card. And it's so splashable.
Demonic and Vampiric Tutors: Because they are great and go in any deck.
Entomb: I love reanimator and this makes it hum.
Dark Confidant: Black aggro is fun.
Bitterblossom: Good in almost anything and synergizes with so many cards.
Grave Titan: Among the best fatties in cube.
Pack Rat: Discard outlet and win condition for 2 mana; sign me up.
Braids: Puts opponents in a huge bind and you can mitigate her drawback pretty easily with Life from the Loam, Crucible of Worlds, Bloodghast, etc.
Liliana of the Veil: Similar to Braids but cheaper and better and also good in reanimator.
Is Hero of blade hold a high pick for people? I've always seen it as a midpack pick, that might be because 360 powered, but still.
Hero of Bladehold has an absurdly high power ceiling for a four drop. Almost nothing beats it in terms of raw power. If it's not disrupted, it can basically decide the game in one swing. If you're looking to go into white, then yes, it should be a pretty high pick.
Hero is a total boss, but if you offer me that and a Dark Confidant in P1P1, I am probably taking the Confidant. The other cards rant mentioned are all good P1P1 options. Liliana of the Veil is one of the best PWs in cube, and I think Heretical Healer is going to prove really strong as well.
you don't see people P1P1 Bloodsoaked Champion or Bob like you might see someone do with Goblin Guide or Hero of Bladehold.
No, you don't see people P1P1 those cards. We see people P1P1 Dark Confidant more often than we see people take Hero. Black aggro is really popular.
Same here. Confidant, Pack Rat and Recurring Nightmare are some of my favorite P1P1's. Black-based aggro and Reanimator are two very popular draft archetypes.
If you want numbers, go to any analysis page on Cubetutor of a heavily drafted cube and open the draft charts on the bottom. You will see that black consistently is the second or third color among the top picked cards, losing only to colorless cards and blue cards, and occasionally to a single white card (Elspeth or Balance).
So it appears to be something to do with your group. I've seen this with mine when the cube was new; people who didn't got the point of losing life to an aggro critter when you could have the same stats on a white one without the drawback, or who didn't trust in a """combo""" deck such as reanimation would work. I've had to hit them on the head with a Sword-wielding Dauthi Horror a little, and to use Recurring Nighmare to its fullest a couple times, to have them on board, but by now black is one of the most popular colors.
We are very happy with black nowadays. If there's a color needing and identity beyond "support/secondary", it is probably green or maybe red.
To be clear, I don't think black is weak (that was red & green for a while), it's likely equal in power...only it still seems to get drafted less, or simply later. Black's identity in my cube are midrange, disruption/card advantage and utility (recursion & tutors). For a while, we pushed black aggro in our cube, but it seemed like black's aggro was notably weaker than white or red aggro. We've since removed black aggro, but I'm wondering if this was the wrong call(?).
Cards that p1p1: mind twist, recurring nightmare, hatred, tutors, bitterblossom.
Perhaps I shouldn't be bothered by black as a support color.
The following decks are regularly seen decks:
Rb agg - Black's kill and disruption are key. Tutors to find vortex are a bonus.
WB tempo (aggro?) - disruption and tutoring for Armageddon.
Gb tempo "Rock", and GB reanimate
Ub control
While a lot of good reasons and cards that would make you go into black were mentioned, one card hasn't: Shriekmaw
Most cube decks rely on creatures to win, which in turn means that everyone should run a few removal spells. There are few cards as universally useful as those that are both a creature and a removal. Adding a dude to your board while removing one on your opponent's side is a huge tempo swing, making not only Control Magic, but also 187 guys like Shriekmaw, Skinrender, Nekrataal, Murderous Redcap and Bone Shredder valuable additions to pretty much every deck. A thing that all the creatures on this list have in common is that they are all black. They are a good reward for deciding to draft this color.
While all those guys are good, Shriekmaw is especially outstanding, because it is also easy and flexible to cast. It has been a high pick in my cube for years and I am shocked how often I see people undervalue it (especially in the MTGO cube drafts on CFB).
A year ago black was my weakest color. It does not have enough 1 drops yet. Furthermore, I havent acquired LotV, Stax and Tangle wire. But now black has aggro, midrange, animator, and stax archtypes. As a utility or splash color, it has the best tutors, it has exclusive access to discard, and very good in removal (creature or pw).
Well, that 25 card black section looks nothing like what I would include in such a small cube, as there are (a lot of) cards in there that I don't even run at 375. Hatred, Arena, the Dauthi guys, Victimize, Edict, GftT, Carrion Feeder, Hyppie, Nighthawk, Desecration Demon and Skinrender wouldn't be in contention for me. That package wouldn't exactly pull me into black either, with some of black's strongest cards omitted and some cards I could never seen maindecking.
Skinrender is awesome as a card. Just can't figure it out how you could be not maindeck it. Phyrexian Arena is also staple for me in the black section.
When you're talking about a 25 card section, there are some really hard cuts. Both of those would probably miss the cut for me too. There's probably only room for 2 black 4-drops, and after Braids, it's a tossup between him and Nekrataal. I might go with Skinrender, but I could see leaving it out too.
For a while, we pushed black aggro in our cube, but it seemed like black's aggro was notably weaker than white or red aggro. We've since removed black aggro, but I'm wondering if this was the wrong call(?).
I remember a while ago seeing a plethora of threads about blackaggro, and just the weakness of black in general. That was years ago, and that's why I was kind of surprised to see this thread. Black got a lot of hate a while back, but in the past year or so Wizards has blessed us with Bloodsoaked Champion (One of the best 1cc in cube), Gnarled Scarhide, and Tormented Hero as solid one drops, while also giving us great finishers in Master of the Feast, Flesh Carver, and to some extent Tasigur. I think Black is my favorite aggro color now because it's not as linear as red deck wins, and is more fun to play than white based aggro decks. As I mentioned before as well, even when you draft blackaggro it still leaves you open for other archetypes as cards like Bloodsoaked Champion, Pack Rats, Oona's Prowler, Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, and Flesh Carver go into tons of other decks.
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What I love about black is that it can do basically everything pretty well. It combines great with every other color and it's good at playing aggro, midrange, and control. Black is by far my favorite color to play in Magic. If I open a pack with a bomb blue card and a solid black card, I'll probably take the black card just because that's where I'd rather be.
For a while, we pushed black aggro in our cube, but it seemed like black's aggro was notably weaker than white or red aggro. We've since removed black aggro, but I'm wondering if this was the wrong call(?).
I remember a while ago seeing a plethora of threads about blackaggro, and just the weakness of black in general. That was years ago, and that's why I was kind of surprised to see this thread. Black got a lot of hate a while back, but in the past year or so Wizards has blessed us with Bloodsoaked Champion (One of the best 1cc in cube), Gnarled Scarhide, and Tormented Hero as solid one drops, while also giving us great finishers in Master of the Feast, Flesh Carver, and to some extent Tasigur. I think Black is my favorite aggro color now because it's not as linear as red deck wins, and is more fun to play than white based aggro decks. As I mentioned before as well, even when you draft blackaggro it still leaves you open for other archetypes as cards like Bloodsoaked Champion, Pack Rats, Oona's Prowler, Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, and Flesh Carver go into tons of other decks.
Whilst this is true, the upset about black aggro was always misplaced. At one point a couple years back, it had roughly the number of good offensive 2 power one drops of white and red combined. On the other hand, black has always been a bit slack in the two drop department after the insane top shelf of Blossom and Bob. Red and white can help to pick up the slack there, and black excels in totally different ways. Arguably, any decent effect lent by White to aggro archetypes can be found elsewhere in a pinch, but there's no replacement for the discard and tutor suite in black. However, I would always advocate splashing W/G/U to some extent in a B (or Rakdos) aggro deck, just to avoid being walled by awkward Enchantments (Moat is a nightmare, in particular).
And yep, those finishers are all really good. I have done a T3 Tasigur twice now albeit without access to his draw ability.
Is it bad if a color is a support color though? Black is very healthy in my cube and is in a variety of decks as a main and support color. Blue however is pretty much always a support color, because frankly it can do everything really well and who wouldn't splash for things like Ancestral recall and Snapcaster mage. This is different from the old black problem, but I don't feel like its a sign that a color is weak just because it is a "support" color.
**I'm not complaining about blue, I'm talking basic cube design philosophy.
I don't think it's a bad thing at all. It all depends on the strategy you as a player see fit for getting your opponent to 0 life. In blue, most decks do that by drawing cards, countering spells, and just out tempoing their opponents. Any of these archetypes can be main or support in blue, and it all depends on the person building the deck.
I think this is the point that Goodking was making when he responded to my previous post in saying that,"black was always misplaced." Some people looked at black and saw what was wrong with it, while others looked at black and smiled every time they got passed a Shreikmaw or Bloodghast. We hear stories like this all the time in the cube world when it comes to single cards. Person A really likes a card, but his playgroup doesn't play it or understand it. So what does player A do? Draft it, and beat them with it so they learn the hard way and can see how it's used.
In this case, with your blue section, it's not a problem with blue, but more so that your group likes to play blue (like everyone else). This is a good think in my opinion, and the cube itself should fix your problem. Aggro has really gotten some much needed reach lately in all colors, and that's always the antithesis to control decks. If you are uneasy with how people over splash blue, than you could always change up your format to make it so you have to commit to blue more. This is why I chose to run Master of Waves over Sower, and Dungeon Geist over Glen Elendra. Both effects are already in my blue section in abundance, and the two cards replacing them need heavier blue requirements. This might be something you could delve into further if you're seeing an over saturation of blue splashes.
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For a while, we pushed black aggro in our cube, but it seemed like black's aggro was notably weaker than white or red aggro. We've since removed black aggro, but I'm wondering if this was the wrong call(?).
I remember a while ago seeing a plethora of threads about blackaggro, and just the weakness of black in general. That was years ago, and that's why I was kind of surprised to see this thread. Black got a lot of hate a while back, but in the past year or so Wizards has blessed us with Bloodsoaked Champion (One of the best 1cc in cube), Gnarled Scarhide, and Tormented Hero as solid one drops, while also giving us great finishers in Master of the Feast, Flesh Carver, and to some extent Tasigur. I think Black is my favorite aggro color now because it's not as linear as red deck wins, and is more fun to play than white based aggro decks. As I mentioned before as well, even when you draft blackaggro it still leaves you open for other archetypes as cards like Bloodsoaked Champion, Pack Rats, Oona's Prowler, Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, and Flesh Carver go into tons of other decks.
I think that's us. We haven't made many huge changes to our cube since agg came out of black. Sure, we've added/subtracted cards here or there when new sets came out, but haven't really supported black aggro in a while. Like others, we replaced aggro with reanimator and sacrifice/stax/braids identities.
I think we might review our approach to black. I appreciate the card recommendations, too, btw.
I wonder if black has room to support aggro, midrange, control, reanimate, discard and sacrifice/braids/stax type strategies.
I wonder if black has room to support aggro, midrange, control, reanimate, discard and sacrifice/braids/stax type strategies.
It is really hard to maintain it and find the right balance but I can attest that it is truly possible. Even a single switch could have some serious impact and, in black, almost every card's presence should be reevaluate has you make any change. I suggest you to take a look at wtwlf123's list and try to figure out how to transpose his archetype proportions to your cube size and design. He has done a really nice job manage the cube since years and his is pretty up to date in all those strategies. MTGO Holiday Cube list is also pretty nice but does contain some narrow cards. But overall it is well done.
I recently 3-0'd a draft of my Cube and was surprised to see how open black was, NO ONE was taking it. I ALMOST went Mono Black but ended up chucking in some white for Swords/Path, Mortify for enchantments and Lingering Souls, because Lingering Souls. I was killing people by Turn 4-5 most times and Bob was doing so much work. I don't think people really respected Black as an option. The draft the following week was much different, Black was getting taken very highly and ended up in 4 decks and so much so I got pulled out of Black and went Naya. As someone said above, take the cards and beat people with them and they will respect it. I did ask people why they were taking the black cards so highly and everyone said because of the beating they took last week.
I do have a relatively newer playgroup so cards like Bob, Blossom and LotV are skill testers and newer people only see the damage they are being dealt or the downside on them not the upside associated with 1/1 flier each turn or drawing a card each turn.
I pose this question, does Black have this stigma because of the "downsides" printed on these awesome cards that affects newer players evaluation of these cards? Black is probably my favourite section.
- What identity does black have in your cube?
- What do you open/crack that makes you think "oh yeah, I'm in black tonight!"?
I feel that black has plenty of solid cards, but many are great support/splash cards maybe?
Perhaps I'm in the minority?
Plainly put, black is the least drafted color in my cube.
WHen it was 400 powered, or now as a 166 powered 2-player version...it rarely gets drafted early.
Reading the forums for while,I hunch I'm not the only one feeling this way...
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Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
* Large number of very efficient one drops and three drops
* Discard, which is the easiest way for aggro to deal with tricky 'walkers and Wrath effects
* Efficiently costed effects at the cost of life, which are at their best in aggro where the drawback is often irrelevant
* Good curve toppers like Nether Void and Master of the Feast
Lots of generic 'goodstuff' for any deck type:
* Efficient and non-cardtype specific tutoring effects
* Discard to cover your deck's weakness, whatever that is
* The usual suspects with really high power, like Bitterblossom, Rec. Nightmare, the Tutors, Braids, Bob... Black has a lot of first pickable cards if you want P1P1's to draw you into it.
* Decent removal for large creatures and hexproof/shrouded ones
Primary reanimator colour:
* Entomb, Exhume, Reanimate etc., discard outlets, and this is a 'combo' deck that can just slot into a midrange or control shell
* Tutors to get the missing pieces
Making grindy/stax decks:
* Good token production effects and ways to abuse that via sacrifice outlets
* Recurring creatures like Bloodsoaked Champion, Gravecrawler etc.
* Tutors to get the missing pieces if you're going a combo route.
Overall black has some unique effects that no other colour gets, so it has a strong identity. It's my favourite colour to play overall and left to my own devices I will often end up with a B/W or B/W aggro deck, a B/R reanimator deck, or some kind of Junk or B/U control.
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Otherwise, Black has some nice combo outlet as well. I like playing Storm, Reanimator or Stax in this color! Yawgmoth's Will, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Tendrils of Agony, Necropotence, Recurring Nightmare, Bitterblossom or even Ophiomancer are high on my pick list. Stuff like Nether Void are also pretty good to lock the board when you're already ahead.
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I think your view of black as a secondary color isn't a bad thing, and think that black is one of the more strait forward colors. Black has the best spot removal and hand disruption, and people will splash for that in any archetype. Again, I really like the versatility that black has to offer in this regard.
I think the reason people don't go all in on black is because of the commitment it's powerful archetypes need, and the inability to wow people with its other strategies out of the gate. BlackAggro has gotten very powerful over the last year with the insane amount of 1 and 3 drops that Wizards have printed, but you don't see people P1P1 Bloodsoaked Champion or Bob like you might see someone do with Goblin Guide or Hero of Bladehold. Same theory could be said about reanimator, as many people will pass these effects because they 1. Don't have discard outlets, 2. don't know if they will get the juicy creatures, and 3. don't know how many more reanimation effects they will see later on in the draft. If you commit to these strategies early though, I think they are some of the more powerful in the cube, and also fun to play.
Black is a fantastic color in the cube. It is the cornerstone of several decks, it has a really high-end top shelf of cards, and it has a deep suite of cards available that support every theater. It's baffling to me how some cube managers can't seem to get it to work right.
No, you don't see people P1P1 those cards. We see people P1P1 Dark Confidant more often than we see people take Hero. Black aggro is really popular.
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What cards make me decide to go into black:
Pack Rat: I loathe to pass this card.
Grave Titan: I know that if I'm in any sort of B/x control, reanimator, midrange or whatever, this will be pretty much the best use of 6 mana out there.
Bitterblossom: Works well in almost any deck.
Griselbrand: I probably pick this higher than most, but I've taken this early so many times, and I just love cheating this guy out.
Liliana of the Veil: Just a really nice planeswalker, and a good reason to go into black.
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Recurring Nightmare: RecSur is possibly my favorite cube deck.
Mind Twist: After the blue Power 9, this is possibly the most broken colored card. And it's so splashable.
Demonic and Vampiric Tutors: Because they are great and go in any deck.
Entomb: I love reanimator and this makes it hum.
Dark Confidant: Black aggro is fun.
Bitterblossom: Good in almost anything and synergizes with so many cards.
Grave Titan: Among the best fatties in cube.
Pack Rat: Discard outlet and win condition for 2 mana; sign me up.
Braids: Puts opponents in a huge bind and you can mitigate her drawback pretty easily with Life from the Loam, Crucible of Worlds, Bloodghast, etc.
Liliana of the Veil: Similar to Braids but cheaper and better and also good in reanimator.
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Hero of Bladehold has an absurdly high power ceiling for a four drop. Almost nothing beats it in terms of raw power. If it's not disrupted, it can basically decide the game in one swing. If you're looking to go into white, then yes, it should be a pretty high pick.
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Same here. Confidant, Pack Rat and Recurring Nightmare are some of my favorite P1P1's. Black-based aggro and Reanimator are two very popular draft archetypes.
If you want numbers, go to any analysis page on Cubetutor of a heavily drafted cube and open the draft charts on the bottom. You will see that black consistently is the second or third color among the top picked cards, losing only to colorless cards and blue cards, and occasionally to a single white card (Elspeth or Balance).
Some examples of what I'm talking about:
http://www.cubetutor.com/analysis/170 Wtwlf's cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/analysis/11299 Goodking's cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/analysis/994 Cuttup's cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/analysis/492 the site's average 360 cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/analysis/24772 with the MTGO Cube's list.
So it appears to be something to do with your group. I've seen this with mine when the cube was new; people who didn't got the point of losing life to an aggro critter when you could have the same stats on a white one without the drawback, or who didn't trust in a """combo""" deck such as reanimation would work. I've had to hit them on the head with a Sword-wielding Dauthi Horror a little, and to use Recurring Nighmare to its fullest a couple times, to have them on board, but by now black is one of the most popular colors.
We are very happy with black nowadays. If there's a color needing and identity beyond "support/secondary", it is probably green or maybe red.
Cards that p1p1: mind twist, recurring nightmare, hatred, tutors, bitterblossom.
Perhaps I shouldn't be bothered by black as a support color.
The following decks are regularly seen decks:
Rb agg - Black's kill and disruption are key. Tutors to find vortex are a bonus.
WB tempo (aggro?) - disruption and tutoring for Armageddon.
Gb tempo "Rock", and GB reanimate
Ub control
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
Most cube decks rely on creatures to win, which in turn means that everyone should run a few removal spells. There are few cards as universally useful as those that are both a creature and a removal. Adding a dude to your board while removing one on your opponent's side is a huge tempo swing, making not only Control Magic, but also 187 guys like Shriekmaw, Skinrender, Nekrataal, Murderous Redcap and Bone Shredder valuable additions to pretty much every deck. A thing that all the creatures on this list have in common is that they are all black. They are a good reward for deciding to draft this color.
While all those guys are good, Shriekmaw is especially outstanding, because it is also easy and flexible to cast. It has been a high pick in my cube for years and I am shocked how often I see people undervalue it (especially in the MTGO cube drafts on CFB).
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
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My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I remember a while ago seeing a plethora of threads about blackaggro, and just the weakness of black in general. That was years ago, and that's why I was kind of surprised to see this thread. Black got a lot of hate a while back, but in the past year or so Wizards has blessed us with Bloodsoaked Champion (One of the best 1cc in cube), Gnarled Scarhide, and Tormented Hero as solid one drops, while also giving us great finishers in Master of the Feast, Flesh Carver, and to some extent Tasigur. I think Black is my favorite aggro color now because it's not as linear as red deck wins, and is more fun to play than white based aggro decks. As I mentioned before as well, even when you draft blackaggro it still leaves you open for other archetypes as cards like Bloodsoaked Champion, Pack Rats, Oona's Prowler, Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, and Flesh Carver go into tons of other decks.
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Whilst this is true, the upset about black aggro was always misplaced. At one point a couple years back, it had roughly the number of good offensive 2 power one drops of white and red combined. On the other hand, black has always been a bit slack in the two drop department after the insane top shelf of Blossom and Bob. Red and white can help to pick up the slack there, and black excels in totally different ways. Arguably, any decent effect lent by White to aggro archetypes can be found elsewhere in a pinch, but there's no replacement for the discard and tutor suite in black. However, I would always advocate splashing W/G/U to some extent in a B (or Rakdos) aggro deck, just to avoid being walled by awkward Enchantments (Moat is a nightmare, in particular).
And yep, those finishers are all really good. I have done a T3 Tasigur twice now albeit without access to his draw ability.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
**I'm not complaining about blue, I'm talking basic cube design philosophy.
thats my cube
I think this is the point that Goodking was making when he responded to my previous post in saying that,"black was always misplaced." Some people looked at black and saw what was wrong with it, while others looked at black and smiled every time they got passed a Shreikmaw or Bloodghast. We hear stories like this all the time in the cube world when it comes to single cards. Person A really likes a card, but his playgroup doesn't play it or understand it. So what does player A do? Draft it, and beat them with it so they learn the hard way and can see how it's used.
In this case, with your blue section, it's not a problem with blue, but more so that your group likes to play blue (like everyone else). This is a good think in my opinion, and the cube itself should fix your problem. Aggro has really gotten some much needed reach lately in all colors, and that's always the antithesis to control decks. If you are uneasy with how people over splash blue, than you could always change up your format to make it so you have to commit to blue more. This is why I chose to run Master of Waves over Sower, and Dungeon Geist over Glen Elendra. Both effects are already in my blue section in abundance, and the two cards replacing them need heavier blue requirements. This might be something you could delve into further if you're seeing an over saturation of blue splashes.
I think that's us. We haven't made many huge changes to our cube since agg came out of black. Sure, we've added/subtracted cards here or there when new sets came out, but haven't really supported black aggro in a while. Like others, we replaced aggro with reanimator and sacrifice/stax/braids identities.
I think we might review our approach to black. I appreciate the card recommendations, too, btw.
I wonder if black has room to support aggro, midrange, control, reanimate, discard and sacrifice/braids/stax type strategies.
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
It is really hard to maintain it and find the right balance but I can attest that it is truly possible. Even a single switch could have some serious impact and, in black, almost every card's presence should be reevaluate has you make any change. I suggest you to take a look at wtwlf123's list and try to figure out how to transpose his archetype proportions to your cube size and design. He has done a really nice job manage the cube since years and his is pretty up to date in all those strategies. MTGO Holiday Cube list is also pretty nice but does contain some narrow cards. But overall it is well done.
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I do have a relatively newer playgroup so cards like Bob, Blossom and LotV are skill testers and newer people only see the damage they are being dealt or the downside on them not the upside associated with 1/1 flier each turn or drawing a card each turn.
I pose this question, does Black have this stigma because of the "downsides" printed on these awesome cards that affects newer players evaluation of these cards? Black is probably my favourite section.
Modern: Jund