To be a planeswalker you almost surely will have to pay 2w to make him indestructible. Unless you are attacking with three creatures into an empty board....
So it not quite accurate to think of him as costing only one mana. He is more similar to Student of Warfare and other level-up cards in this way.
Not much to discuss about the card, only the questions he brings up and where he ranks relative to other white 1 drops (for fun).
I'm going to call he's on power level of as student of warfare (maybe slightly BETTER), but mana is less restrictive, thus ranking higher.
It's awsome that white weenie gets another high power level 1 drop... Strongly believe WW is a medium-low tier supported archetype in powered cube. This is an awsome boost for it.
There's such a huge difference in power level between Mother of runes, student of warfare, figure of destiny and the rest of the white 1 drop cast... Great to have another card on the tier 1 level. Especially one that doesn't require such a heavy white commitment!
I love how well it works with overcommiting. It encourages you to overcommit for 1 turn , then if you can survive that turn, you have pressure, are attacking on two angles and are no longer over commited! What a well designed card...
Looks like WOTC got tired of their one mana 2/1s in white seeing zero constructed play, lol. They went from for W you get a 2/1 with a minor, probably irrelevant upside, to you get a 2/1 with completely insano upside.
This obviously doens't need any discussion for cube. Dragon Hunter is a thing in cube for God's sake.
Amazing card. I'm probably going to have to break and put flip cards in. I could handle Jace, and was grumpy about Liliana, but this one is just too much to not include. Plus for what it is worth, he enters play as a human which is always good
He's great, but I'm still not cubing with flip cards. Don't feel like you *have to* change if you've already made that decision. My reason is that I double sleeve and the sleeves I use wedge together like they're glued, so I don't wanna mess with DFCs.
You could just proxy up the back side and set it aside for use during games, or get two copies of the card.
This card is the 2nd best white card after Balance.
Now this I do not agree with. I like this card a lot, and it's a fantastic 1-drop. But 2nd best white card? I don't think so.
Alright, maybe Armageddon/Ravages and Elspeth 1.0 beats baby Gideon, but I think he is better than the original Gideon planeswalker which is top 5 in most players lists.
I love this card, and I think it's one of the best 1-drops of all time. But I just don't think it crack's the top shelf of the best white cards in the cube.
Wow, and I thought I was high on the card! Reading some responses realized Im ranking gideon lower than most people.
I think it's playable in control and without cards like elspeth, sun's champion, monastery mentor, lingering souls or some way to activate it, Im confident youd rather not put him in the main deck.
3 mana to make indestructable is expensive.. It's a great ability no doubt, but it's what the control deck is hinging on to use it as a blocker/pressure planeswalkers etc.
This is an agro card that is playable outside of agro, but he definitely not great in most of those decks. "Oppressive" is not a word that should be thrown around with this card. There's no deck or archetype that gideon opresses.
Cards in white I'd rank higher than him without much thought (not in exact order)
1. Balance
2. Armageddon
3. Mother of Runes
4. Stoneforge Mystic
5. Elspeth, Knight errant
6. Swords to plowshares
7. Path to exile
8. Gideon Jura
The fact that I had to think about him or big gideon and I can't confidently put anything else higher than him (There's a few cards I think are probably better) is still VERY impressive. Those are some great cards.
Well Mother of Runes seems to be the common comparison for power level. I think Gideon may actually be a bit better than Mom....Sorry Mom.
Seeing how Mother of Runes ranked 14th this year. I personally think this is solidly in the top 15 white cards, 20 to be conservative.
I don't know, Gideon is amazing, but compared to Mom he does require some work to be more than an elite vanguard. Mom is the bomb as soon as you untap with her. I could end up being wrong, but she still seems better.
Amazing card. I'm probably going to have to break and put flip cards in. I could handle Jace, and was grumpy about Liliana, but this one is just too much to not include. Plus for what it is worth, he enters play as a human which is always good
He's great, but I'm still not cubing with flip cards. Don't feel like you *have to* change if you've already made that decision. My reason is that I double sleeve and the sleeves I use wedge together like they're glued, so I don't wanna mess with DFCs.
This is me too. Awesome card of course, just not what I want my cube to be doing.
I solve that problem by just using two copies of DFC cards. The side with the face that is cast is sleeved up in the draft pool like the rest of the cards, and the other side is sleeved up but also in a top loader sitting with the tokens. When it comes time to draft, I just take the top-loader cards out from the tokens, put them in the middle, and then if anyone needs to reference the back side they can look through all of the cards there so no one knows which DFC they have.
Granted, it's expensive having to get two of each DFC, but it saves me the worry of something happening to the card each time it takes taken out of the sleeve to be flipped.
I solve that problem by just using two copies of DFC cards. The side with the face that is cast is sleeved up in the draft pool like the rest of the cards, and the other side is sleeved up but also in a top loader sitting with the tokens. When it comes time to draft, I just take the top-loader cards out from the tokens, put them in the middle, and then if anyone needs to reference the back side they can look through all of the cards there so no one knows which DFC they have.
I do the exact same thing. Except they stay in their top loaders. Very convenient.
While transform plays very well, DFCs are an inexcusable design decision that violates the basic structure that makes Magic a playable game.
I run a few in my cube, but play them as they should have been printed: The "backside" as a separate token card in a differently colored sleeve. If the card in question is too expensive, I just make a photocopy of the backside for the token.
I love DFCs and would like to see more of them. I just flip them over the double sleeve. I guess having too many in the cube would make this annoying, but really how many are good enough anyway.
I was originally against playing DFC's as well, but I ended up starting to use them, since there are some really nice ones. I don't like taking cards out of the sleeve and that was my original reason to exclude these cards.
My solution was to make a proxy transformed side and have them ready with the tokens. Now that I have my cube proxy free, I might actually upgrade them to a second copies of the real card and sleeve them with different color sleeves. That way they are easily recognizable and usable out of the token box.
DFCs are an inexcusable design decision that violates the basic structure that makes Magic a playable game.
Do you play with your cube unsleeved? The solutions to non-magic card backs were easy, and were clearly delineated in the innistrad rules - these in no way made magic "unplayable," as evidence by the thousands and thousands of magic games that have been played with DFC's.
If you want to play unsleeved, and are incapable of finding a checklist card or a basic land to write on, I guess that, yes, DFC's would be a problem.
So how many other 2 power 1 drops are people playing in white and what is getting the cut for this guy?
If you are cutting, lions or vanguard are the first cuts, then I think dragon hunter is the worst of the 2/1's for W with a small upside. But I don't think you want less than 5 2/1's for W in a cube of any size.
Edit - We count vanguard as W, so her. + this new guy, + hunter, reaper, & soldier is where I get 5.
Do you play with your cube unsleeved? The solutions to non-magic card backs were easy, and were clearly delineated in the innistrad rules - these in no way made magic "unplayable," as evidence by the thousands and thousands of magic games that have been played with DFC's.
Not having the uniform Magic card backs makes DFCs literally unplayable without the use of a few specific accessories.
You can say that this isn't all that relevant, because you can just use those accessories (and at least opaque sleeves aren't that uncommon), but that doesn't change the fact that this statement is 100% true and that DFCs did cause problems when they were released and that they are the first and only cards that are printed and sold in booster packs that are physically unplayable on their own.
So how many other 2 power 1 drops are people playing in white and what is getting the cut for this guy?
At 600, I think this will be last one that I include without cutting another 2 power 1 drop. The next one after Gideon (Kytheon?) will finally kick out good old Savannah Lions.
So it not quite accurate to think of him as costing only one mana. He is more similar to Student of Warfare and other level-up cards in this way.
Still awesome, of course.
Not much to discuss about the card, only the questions he brings up and where he ranks relative to other white 1 drops (for fun).
I'm going to call he's on power level of as student of warfare (maybe slightly BETTER), but mana is less restrictive, thus ranking higher.
It's awsome that white weenie gets another high power level 1 drop... Strongly believe WW is a medium-low tier supported archetype in powered cube. This is an awsome boost for it.
There's such a huge difference in power level between Mother of runes, student of warfare, figure of destiny and the rest of the white 1 drop cast... Great to have another card on the tier 1 level. Especially one that doesn't require such a heavy white commitment!
I love how well it works with overcommiting. It encourages you to overcommit for 1 turn , then if you can survive that turn, you have pressure, are attacking on two angles and are no longer over commited! What a well designed card...
Last Updated 02/07/24
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This obviously doens't need any discussion for cube. Dragon Hunter is a thing in cube for God's sake.
You could just proxy up the back side and set it aside for use during games, or get two copies of the card.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Alright, maybe Armageddon/Ravages and Elspeth 1.0 beats baby Gideon, but I think he is better than the original Gideon planeswalker which is top 5 in most players lists.
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I think it's playable in control and without cards like elspeth, sun's champion, monastery mentor, lingering souls or some way to activate it, Im confident youd rather not put him in the main deck.
3 mana to make indestructable is expensive.. It's a great ability no doubt, but it's what the control deck is hinging on to use it as a blocker/pressure planeswalkers etc.
This is an agro card that is playable outside of agro, but he definitely not great in most of those decks. "Oppressive" is not a word that should be thrown around with this card. There's no deck or archetype that gideon opresses.
Cards in white I'd rank higher than him without much thought (not in exact order)
1. Balance
2. Armageddon
3. Mother of Runes
4. Stoneforge Mystic
5. Elspeth, Knight errant
6. Swords to plowshares
7. Path to exile
8. Gideon Jura
The fact that I had to think about him or big gideon and I can't confidently put anything else higher than him (There's a few cards I think are probably better) is still VERY impressive. Those are some great cards.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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I don't know, Gideon is amazing, but compared to Mom he does require some work to be more than an elite vanguard. Mom is the bomb as soon as you untap with her. I could end up being wrong, but she still seems better.
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This is me too. Awesome card of course, just not what I want my cube to be doing.
Granted, it's expensive having to get two of each DFC, but it saves me the worry of something happening to the card each time it takes taken out of the sleeve to be flipped.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I do the exact same thing. Except they stay in their top loaders. Very convenient.
Great to hear! I look forward to playing with DFC cards when drafting your cube.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I run a few in my cube, but play them as they should have been printed: The "backside" as a separate token card in a differently colored sleeve. If the card in question is too expensive, I just make a photocopy of the backside for the token.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
To me, this is actually a strike against them. It's a big hassle for minor gain and I miss out on only two (okay now 3) cards by not running them.
Really? I've never found a single thing about them that makes them unplayable in comparison to any other kind of card.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
My solution was to make a proxy transformed side and have them ready with the tokens. Now that I have my cube proxy free, I might actually upgrade them to a second copies of the real card and sleeve them with different color sleeves. That way they are easily recognizable and usable out of the token box.
Now we ran Garruk Relentless, Huntmaster of the Fells and new Liliana as a proxy. We will most likely run Jace and Gideon as well.
Do you play with your cube unsleeved? The solutions to non-magic card backs were easy, and were clearly delineated in the innistrad rules - these in no way made magic "unplayable," as evidence by the thousands and thousands of magic games that have been played with DFC's.
If you want to play unsleeved, and are incapable of finding a checklist card or a basic land to write on, I guess that, yes, DFC's would be a problem.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
If you are cutting, lions or vanguard are the first cuts, then I think dragon hunter is the worst of the 2/1's for W with a small upside. But I don't think you want less than 5 2/1's for W in a cube of any size.
Edit - We count vanguard as W, so her. + this new guy, + hunter, reaper, & soldier is where I get 5.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
You can say that this isn't all that relevant, because you can just use those accessories (and at least opaque sleeves aren't that uncommon), but that doesn't change the fact that this statement is 100% true and that DFCs did cause problems when they were released and that they are the first and only cards that are printed and sold in booster packs that are physically unplayable on their own.
At 600, I think this will be last one that I include without cutting another 2 power 1 drop. The next one after Gideon (Kytheon?) will finally kick out good old Savannah Lions.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG