This set design seems very focused and insular, which probably makes for an interesting limited environment but I just don't know how well it will translate into Cube in my opinion, noting everyone's Cube is different and everyone has feelings and other opinions. Before you point out Gideon etc, I try and limit my amount of Planeswalkers
All things being fair, the full set isn't spoiled yet so there is still time.
This set design seems very focused and insular, which probably makes for an interesting limited environment but I just don't know how well it will translate into Cube in my opinion, noting everyone's Cube is different and everyone has feelings and other opinions. Before you point out Gideon etc, I try and limit my amount of Planeswalkers
All things being fair, the full set isn't spoiled yet so there is still time.
Why don't you love Ulamog?
Man, I do, I am just so sad as mill is something I have deliberately left out of my Cube as a design choice. I have newer players to Magic in my Cube and making them spend time on building a deck and being really proud of their creation only to have it milled away is a feel bad I don't want just yet, when they all become a lot more familiar with the game and more understanding, mill can be a thing. In general I don't love mill in 40 card formats though, which is why Jace, Memory Adept and Sword of B&M are excluded. Solid win cons, yes, but just a design choice. Same with Hexproof (Geist is exception).
When I saw a new Ulamog spoilt I was super excited and then saw his last ability and my heart sank...he'll be in there one day, just not yet. Otherwise, card is great and would have been a slam dunk for my Cube.
Monkey, I understand Trygon over old Kiora, but I think the new one beats it. That minus ability is just so powerful, and it gets to impersonate Garruk Wildspeaker's ramp as well.
I think it depends on cube construction. If you don't saturate green with Naturalizes, Trygon can be a really important card for UG decks to get access to that kind of effect. Depending on need and construction, Kiora 2 can be a top 3 Simic card, but there are certainly cube arrangements that will relegate her to a #4+ spot.
Due to the overwhelming support for Trygon I'll probably cut Shardless instead, for a lineup of Lumbering Falls, Coiling Oracle, Trygon, Edric, Mystic Snakes, Kioras 1&2. I quite like Coiling Oracle and both Kioras.
Curious why people running large cubes put manlands in their guild instead of fixing section, they are way closer to dual lands than they are to spells when it comes to their effect on cube archetype ratios.
Small cubes I sort of understand because u might be uncomfortable running uneven dual cycles and don't want 4 dual lands for each guild.
Curious why people running large cubes put manlands in their guild instead of fixing section, they are way closer to dual lands than they are to spells when it comes to their effect on cube archetype ratios.
Small cubes I sort of understand because u might be uncomfortable running uneven dual cycles and don't want 4 dual lands for each guild.
If you're running all of them surely it doesn't matter what they're classified as, they could be monopurple for all the numbers care. If you're not running all of them it does make sense to put them in that flexible section since you can then replace the ones you don't like with other lands or non-lands. In my cube I might end up running all except G/W just because I have other cards I need to be running ahead of Wildwood there!
Curious why people running large cubes put manlands in their guild instead of fixing section, they are way closer to dual lands than they are to spells when it comes to their effect on cube archetype ratios.
Small cubes I sort of understand because u might be uncomfortable running uneven dual cycles and don't want 4 dual lands for each guild.
If you're running all of them surely it doesn't matter what they're classified as, they could be monopurple for all the numbers care. If you're not running all of them it does make sense to put them in that flexible section since you can then replace the ones you don't like with other lands or non-lands. In my cube I might end up running all except G/W just because I have other cards I need to be running ahead of Wildwood there!
If u care less about uneven fixing than uneven representation of each guild, I guess that makes sense.
I give 5 fixing slots to each guild and put the best 5 dual lands for each guild In that space , rather than think of it as land cycles.. but to each their own.
With everything spoiled I'm pretty firmed up with my swaps and inclusions.
No Question:
Drana > Dauthi Marauder
(I like the Marauder, but so very fragile)
Greenwarden > Woodland Bellower
(Don't think Bellower ever saw play. Will consider reincluding if his target density dramatically increases over the next few sets.)
2 New Manlands > Respective Tap Lands
(Still playing these in enemy colors, will be nice to be free of them)
+Hedron Archive
Interested But Not Sure:
Akoum Firebird > I Don't Even Know
(Any advice on this one? My red feels insanely tight, and I'm throwing in a Firestorm too)
Ruinous Path > Consuming Vapors
(Vapors is kind of a pet card, but the more tokens and pws we get, the less it seems worth 4 mana. Plus I'm not running Dreadbore anymore.)
Scatter the Winds > Spell Pierce
(Pierce stops cheaty decks, but otherwise Scatter seems like the better card in most situations. Tho I realize there are other counters I could be running in the same slot.)
Also I agree w most folks' assessment of new Kiora as better than the old one, but here I think budget might dictate I stick with what I've got.
Confident
Drana (Mardu Strike Leader)
Manlands (Painlands but I don't have the Zen Fetches at the moment, when I do these will might go)
Likely, but will need to prove a spot
Greenwarden (Wolfir Silverheart or Foe-Razor Regent)
Hedron Archive (Quicksilver Amulet or Smokestack)
Woodland Wanderer (Surrak, the Hunt Caller or Seige Rhino)
Planar Outburst (Day of Judgement if I push to effect diversification over raw efficiency)
Powerful but don't know what to do with
Gideon (Seems great but I would just be cutting another great planeswalker as my group already has said enough with the planeswalker saturation)
Kiora ( I like 4 man Kiora a lot but I like the last one a lot, and I have a hard time playing both and taking out something uniqu like edric or trygon)
Ulamog (Yeah a gigantic fatty. It can be reanimated which is awesome but I don't know if it is marginally different than the other giant Eldrazi, all of which are more fun but have less synergy than green or artifact fatties)
I'm not sure at this point what my cuts are as I'm moving up to 540 from 450.
Includes: Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: Good card is good card even though white 4s don't need the help. He'll be the first to go the minute we get a more interesting white walker, but for now I'm happy with him. Scatter to the Winds: This is a good card and I'm happy to have it in cube. Drana, Liberator of Malakir: Best card in the set IMO and will be one of the scariest aggro creatures in cube when she gets some momentum. Ruinous Path: Glad to have two solid Awaken cards in cube. This card will do plenty of work! Seeing how this card and Scatter to the Winds sort of follow the same mold makes me wish we got an Incinerate with Awaken. Oh well, maybe next set if they keep the mechanic! Greenwarden of Murasa: EDH style value on a cubable creature. This card is going to quietly win a lot of games. Woodland Wanderer: Going to slot this as a "rainbow" card. I'd be happy with a 4/4 with vigilance and trample for 3G, but I think this will more often be a 5/5 or a 6/6. The spirit of Vorapede approves and so does my cube. Big game that will go in all sorts of decks. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger: NOM NOM NOM. Hedron Archive: Mindstone x2 on one card. Happy. Kiora, Master of the Depths: Better than Kiora 1.0 IMO. Will be a great 5th simic card for me.
Also, both Manlands... duh.
11 cards in all. Not bad for a "lackluster" spoiler season.
12 cards going in from this set. Nice! I think this is an awesome set for the cube, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of these in action. Those of them that have been tested so far (since being spoiled) have been playing quite well. Hope the rest do well too!
So far Kiora has been sweet, all the Awaken spells have been impressive, and From Beyond has been painfully mediocre. I'm rapidly falling off that train.
Forgot one. I know this isn't a popular choice on these forums but my group really wants me to test Endless One, so I'm going to give it a shot. Who knows, maybe it will be half decent.
To be fair, how many cards are we still running from Khans of Tarkir? Beyond Dig/Cruise, Bloodsoaked Champion, and Siege Rhino, I don't think anything from that set gets cubed at 360 anymore.
The cycles of utility lands (particularly Mortuary Mire and Blighted Cataract) also have me very intrigued. While they're not strong enough to take up slots in the actual cube, they've given me enough incentive to want to try a separate utility land draft for these and other lands that I think could spice up matches, but aren't quite strong enough to take the spot of existing cube cards.
To be fair, how many cards are we still running from Khans of Tarkir? Beyond Dig/Cruise, Bloodsoaked Champion, and Siege Rhino, I don't think anything from that set gets cubed at 360 anymore.
The difference is, there are at least 5 strong contenders at 360 from Khans -- while the new set has zero as far as I can tell. That said, I don't think the number of 360 caliber cards should define a set, which is good because in this case it can't -- since there are none.
Whether the amount of x size calibur define a set depends on your cube size. My cube is a 360, so it is only impact only by 360 testable cards. A hypothetical set can be 100% 720 cubable card for all 254 cards and it still will not impact my cube or other small cube. In the end, your cube size decide your includes and directly impact what each set will mean to you.
Battle for Zendikar is a good set for cube. There's few cards I want to test and I might many more consider many of these cards "testable" if this set got print 3-4 years ago. Cube get stronger every single years, and our expectations grows every year. I think the amount of cards we get is pretty fair considering that restrictions.
I am going to include between 12 and 16 cards from this set, making it an average to slightly above average large set for my cube. That's far from disappointing.
There is only one thing that I am sad about: That I am not going to include more Eldrazi. There are a few near misses and I wish they were just a little bit more pushed, so that I could include them and actually see them getting played:
Brood Monitor - needed to make a fourth Scion token.
I think there's room at 360 for Drana, Ulamog, and the man lands from this set. I could possibly even find room for Gideon and Kiora for test runs. If your own cube restrictions stop you from putting those cards in because of planeswalker numbers (Gideon) or power level (Ulamog), that doesn't make it a bad set for cube. It makes it a bad set for your cube.
I haven't seen anyone talking about Bane of Bala Ged. Annihilator 2 on a 7 CMC critter hasn't been seen before and might be quite strong. Consider that if it costed 6G instead it would probably make the cut in many cubes' green sections.
Why don't you love Ulamog?
thats my cube
Man, I do, I am just so sad as mill is something I have deliberately left out of my Cube as a design choice. I have newer players to Magic in my Cube and making them spend time on building a deck and being really proud of their creation only to have it milled away is a feel bad I don't want just yet, when they all become a lot more familiar with the game and more understanding, mill can be a thing. In general I don't love mill in 40 card formats though, which is why Jace, Memory Adept and Sword of B&M are excluded. Solid win cons, yes, but just a design choice. Same with Hexproof (Geist is exception).
When I saw a new Ulamog spoilt I was super excited and then saw his last ability and my heart sank...he'll be in there one day, just not yet. Otherwise, card is great and would have been a slam dunk for my Cube.
Modern: Jund
Cubetutor Link
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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Small cubes I sort of understand because u might be uncomfortable running uneven dual cycles and don't want 4 dual lands for each guild.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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If you're running all of them surely it doesn't matter what they're classified as, they could be monopurple for all the numbers care. If you're not running all of them it does make sense to put them in that flexible section since you can then replace the ones you don't like with other lands or non-lands. In my cube I might end up running all except G/W just because I have other cards I need to be running ahead of Wildwood there!
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
If u care less about uneven fixing than uneven representation of each guild, I guess that makes sense.
I give 5 fixing slots to each guild and put the best 5 dual lands for each guild In that space , rather than think of it as land cycles.. but to each their own.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
No Question:
Drana > Dauthi Marauder
(I like the Marauder, but so very fragile)
Greenwarden > Woodland Bellower
(Don't think Bellower ever saw play. Will consider reincluding if his target density dramatically increases over the next few sets.)
2 New Manlands > Respective Tap Lands
(Still playing these in enemy colors, will be nice to be free of them)
+Hedron Archive
Interested But Not Sure:
Akoum Firebird > I Don't Even Know
(Any advice on this one? My red feels insanely tight, and I'm throwing in a Firestorm too)
Ruinous Path > Consuming Vapors
(Vapors is kind of a pet card, but the more tokens and pws we get, the less it seems worth 4 mana. Plus I'm not running Dreadbore anymore.)
Scatter the Winds > Spell Pierce
(Pierce stops cheaty decks, but otherwise Scatter seems like the better card in most situations. Tho I realize there are other counters I could be running in the same slot.)
Also I agree w most folks' assessment of new Kiora as better than the old one, but here I think budget might dictate I stick with what I've got.
Akrasia, a Custom 360 Cube
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Drana (Mardu Strike Leader)
Manlands (Painlands but I don't have the Zen Fetches at the moment, when I do these will might go)
Likely, but will need to prove a spot
Greenwarden (Wolfir Silverheart or Foe-Razor Regent)
Hedron Archive (Quicksilver Amulet or Smokestack)
Woodland Wanderer (Surrak, the Hunt Caller or Seige Rhino)
Planar Outburst (Day of Judgement if I push to effect diversification over raw efficiency)
Powerful but don't know what to do with
Gideon (Seems great but I would just be cutting another great planeswalker as my group already has said enough with the planeswalker saturation)
Kiora ( I like 4 man Kiora a lot but I like the last one a lot, and I have a hard time playing both and taking out something uniqu like edric or trygon)
Ulamog (Yeah a gigantic fatty. It can be reanimated which is awesome but I don't know if it is marginally different than the other giant Eldrazi, all of which are more fun but have less synergy than green or artifact fatties)
Includes:
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: Good card is good card even though white 4s don't need the help. He'll be the first to go the minute we get a more interesting white walker, but for now I'm happy with him.
Scatter to the Winds: This is a good card and I'm happy to have it in cube.
Drana, Liberator of Malakir: Best card in the set IMO and will be one of the scariest aggro creatures in cube when she gets some momentum.
Ruinous Path: Glad to have two solid Awaken cards in cube. This card will do plenty of work! Seeing how this card and Scatter to the Winds sort of follow the same mold makes me wish we got an Incinerate with Awaken. Oh well, maybe next set if they keep the mechanic!
Greenwarden of Murasa: EDH style value on a cubable creature. This card is going to quietly win a lot of games.
Woodland Wanderer: Going to slot this as a "rainbow" card. I'd be happy with a 4/4 with vigilance and trample for 3G, but I think this will more often be a 5/5 or a 6/6. The spirit of Vorapede approves and so does my cube. Big game that will go in all sorts of decks.
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger: NOM NOM NOM.
Hedron Archive: Mindstone x2 on one card. Happy.
Kiora, Master of the Depths: Better than Kiora 1.0 IMO. Will be a great 5th simic card for me.
Also, both Manlands... duh.
11 cards in all. Not bad for a "lackluster" spoiler season.
WWW
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
UUU
Scatter to the Winds
BBB
Drana, Liberator of Malakir
Ruinous Path
RRR
None
GGG
Scythe Leopard
Woodland Wanderer
Greenwarden of Murasa
WUBRG
Shambling Vent
Kiora, Master of the Depths
Lumbering Falls
123
Hedron Archive
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
12 cards going in from this set. Nice! I think this is an awesome set for the cube, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of these in action. Those of them that have been tested so far (since being spoiled) have been playing quite well. Hope the rest do well too!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Includes:
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Scatter to the Winds
Ruinous Path
Greenwarden of Murasa
Kiora, Master of the Depths
Shambling Vent
Lumbering Falls
Testing:
Planar Outburst
Drana, Liberator of Malakir
Painful Truths
Ob Nixilis Reignited
From Beyond
Brutal Expulsion
Hedron Archive
Blighted Woodland
So far Kiora has been sweet, all the Awaken spells have been impressive, and From Beyond has been painfully mediocre. I'm rapidly falling off that train.
Cubetutor Link
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Cubetutor Link
I'm running Bloodsoaked Champion, Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, War-Name Aspirant, and Dig Through Time still at 360.
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Scatter to the Winds (testing, I may be better off with Complicate or Deprive for additional countermagic)
Ruinous Path
Drana, Liberator of Malakir
Akoum Firebird
Woodland Wanderer
Greenwarden of Murasa
Shambling Vent
Kiora, Master of the Depths
Lumbering Falls
Hedron Archive
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Endless One (I expect this to be the most misplayed card from this set, but the ultimate curve-filler card seems worth a try.)
The cycles of utility lands (particularly Mortuary Mire and Blighted Cataract) also have me very intrigued. While they're not strong enough to take up slots in the actual cube, they've given me enough incentive to want to try a separate utility land draft for these and other lands that I think could spice up matches, but aren't quite strong enough to take the spot of existing cube cards.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
The difference is, there are at least 5 strong contenders at 360 from Khans -- while the new set has zero as far as I can tell. That said, I don't think the number of 360 caliber cards should define a set, which is good because in this case it can't -- since there are none.
Battle for Zendikar is a good set for cube. There's few cards I want to test and I might many more consider many of these cards "testable" if this set got print 3-4 years ago. Cube get stronger every single years, and our expectations grows every year. I think the amount of cards we get is pretty fair considering that restrictions.
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
There is only one thing that I am sad about: That I am not going to include more Eldrazi. There are a few near misses and I wish they were just a little bit more pushed, so that I could include them and actually see them getting played:
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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In for sure (in no particular order):
Maybe:
Includes:
Maybe:
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420