Haven't tested any yet because I wanted to make a global update after the complete release of the set, so I don't have any results for now. Will post as soon as I have some interesting things to share! Gideon, Drana, Ulamog and both lands are all expected to stay and I just need to confirm the right cut for it. For the rest, I think it has to see some play to actually compile some results before taking a final decision.
I run a separate land section in addition to the lands in my cube. Each player is allowed to take either an Alara/Tarkir tri-land or a Theros temple scry-land. I do this to provide a smooth mana base, and also to push that two color decks will get access to really smooth mana, but there is a safety net if you want to push for the splash. That said, I am considering adding mono-colored lands to that section like Mortuary Mire and Blighted Woodland, and would even bring back Teetering Peaks for the red slot. I just don't want to mislead players who would pick a mono-colored land over a tri-land if they build a 3-color deck etc. So I'm not sure. My cube doesn't support mono-color decks, but since I have a "free" land section, spell lands are nice. Hmmmm.
Anywho, is Swell of Growth on anybody's radar? I run a 360 unpowered, and any chance to combine resources (ramp and pump) into one card seems invaluable to me.
My cube aims to showcase the most powerful spells that were once Standard legal from the Lorwyn block forward. Both the individual cards and the archetypes are heavily influenced by the decks and cards that saw competitive play during their lifetime in Standard (and to a lesser extent Modern). In card selection, preference goes to cards that made a greater impact on any constructed format. An average FNMer should feel nostalgic while playing this cube.
Ulamog and the two manlands are it for me this set. My group wants to try out Ob Nixilis, so if I can pick one up cheap maybe that as well, but I'm not too hopeful.
I run a separate land section in addition to the lands in my cube. Each player is allowed to take either an Alara/Tarkir tri-land or a Theros temple scry-land. I do this to provide a smooth mana base, and also to push that two color decks will get access to really smooth mana, but there is a safety net if you want to push for the splash. That said, I am considering adding mono-colored lands to that section like Mortuary Mire and Blighted Woodland, and would even bring back Teetering Peaks for the red slot. I just don't want to mislead players who would pick a mono-colored land over a tri-land if they build a 3-color deck etc. So I'm not sure. My cube doesn't support mono-color decks, but since I have a "free" land section, spell lands are nice. Hmmmm.
Anywho, is Swell of Growth on anybody's radar? I run a 360 unpowered, and any chance to combine resources (ramp and pump) into one card seems invaluable to me.
What a disappointing end to a very mediocre spoiler season. There are really only five cards out of this set that I'm excited to include into my 680 card cube which is relatively poor for how good sets have currently been. Maybe hype was too high, but I was really hoping for more unique, interesting or powerful cards out of BFZ. I was really exited to see Converge spoiled for the first time but that ability went nowhere. I thought it was an interesting ability that had lots of unique creative space to build within and that it could be really powerful in cubes with good fixing, but unfortunately most of the cards turned out to be worse versions of cards that already exist. I also felt landfall was underutilized in this set. I wanted more land fetching creatures or more landfall instants and sorceries but neither came to fruition. Although I'm not adding it to my cube I am a fan of Swell of Growth and look forward to playing it in limited.
I'm adding 11 cards total at the moment but I felt this set had much more potential and a lot of the cards felt 'safe' or dumbed down. I actually think this is one of the smallest additions to my cube of any set release since Journey. That being said any addition is welcome and luckily us cubers have Commander 2015 coming up in just two months time!
Got some more playtime in with new BFZ cards & here are my impressions based off my 540 card powered Cube.
I want to start with the tango/double check/BFZ lands. These cards have been absolutely fantastic in our Cube & everyone in our playgroup agrees that they belong. After this block is complete I will run fetches, duals, shocks, manlands, the BFZ duals & my 6th cycle will be a combination of pains/Horizon Canopy/Dimir and Azorius check lands. Some may think that 6 sets of lands are too much for a 540 Cube but we cut a few mana fixers/colorless cards & this feels like a good amount. Being able to fetch the BFZ duals is sweet & their drawback is often minimized over the last several weeks of playtesting with them. I think all Cubes 450 & larger should at least test them.
Gideon has been great & I’ve been fortunate to draft him several times. Absolutely love everything he brings to the Cube and wish we would get a walker of his quality in black or red.
Kiora got played in two different decks last night and was solid. Being able to grab a creature & land in a Simic deck was great. One time it grabbed Meloku & a land which was tremendous. Not replacing old Kiora because I think these cards serve different purposes.
Greenwarden of Murasa is a card that I thought would be pretty good & it played even better than that yesterday. The last draft saw it in a deck with Eternal Witness & many recursions were had. I know you can’t recur Greenwarden but playing against the Recurring Nightmare/Bone Shredder/Shriekmaw deck with Greenwarden was tremendously awkward. It played well in other games too & this card definitely proved its worth in my 540 yesterday.
Woodland Wanderer was a 5/5 for 4 twice in my deck which was great. I didn’t get it in my Worldknit deck which would have been a 6/6 for 4 every time. I’m a big fan of this card in my Cube.
Ulamog was in a weird deck last night and it only got to attack once which lead to an instant win. This card will belong in my Cube.
Those are the only impressions I have for last night. We’re testing another 6-8 cards including the manlands, Ruinous Path, Ob Nixilis & Drana, Liberator of Malakir but we didn’t get enough time with them to declare anything.
I had different results with the Double Check lands (I prefer the nickname "O Duals" ...since I'm always left wanting the real thing). They're better than I thought, but not good enough for my 540. Being fetchable is relevant, and so is having a land type attached to them. But they enter the battlefield tapped constantly, and for aggressive decks, it was too big of a drawback. I wouldn't include the non-blue ones until all the land options that tap for colored mana on T1 have been exhausted. In blue, they're much more tolerable (and important). I would run them as the #6 lands for WU and UB, and maybe even the #5 lands for UR and UGonce IF they're printed (since I don't have awesome Mirage fetches for those guilds). But in testing, they weren't good enough for my powered 540 environment. Details of their testing is outlined in my preview article.
I agree with all of kingneb's other assessments of the set so far, and all those experiences reflect mine.
Quote from kingneb »
I know you can’t recur Greenwarden...
You certainly can! The second trigger (the exile one) is a may, so in a deck where you know you're going to abuse the ETB trigger, you can elect to let it go to the graveyard.
I'm on the disappointed side of the fence too. Though I am very excited about Drana, Kiora and Ulamog, 3 cards is less than I thought I would be adding from a big set.
Lumbering Falls- Didn't see play because there isn't anyone drafting a simmic deck.
Drana, Liberator of Malakir- This is really good. I play it in the same as Mardu Strike Leader and the first strike buff makes it a pretty neat anthem effect. I might replace Vampire Nighthawk or Mardu Strike Leader with it because I don't want to increase my 3 drop any further.
Ruinous Path- This is AWESOME. It kills a fair sum of Planeswalker last night, but that might be due to my cube size. Nothing feels better than Pathing a planeswalker that's about to ultimate.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar- It's not in my deck, so the player that play it like it a lot. I might be replacing Goldmane with it because I think Goldmane is the weakest card in my 4 cmc section.
Greenwarden of Murasa- It's a good card. And my player like it. However, the player that play it also say he like Prime time, hornet queen, and woodfall more. As such, it probably won't make the cut. I myself think it's about the #4 green fatties behind those options, but that's just me from facing the card and not from playing the card, so it might not be accurate.
I might give Ulamog the swirl later but I'll need to slow down my cube more first.
I'm glad to hear the tango lands are working out in some cubes. I'm tempted to include the cycle once the rest are printed but wasn't sure how viable they really were. My meta is more midrange, so I think I can handle another ETB tapped fixing cycle. I'm also running double shock, which is cool but all that life loss is placing a large importance on incidental life gain effects (more than I'd like). But I feel a second set of dual lands with basic land types is required to get the most out of the fetch land cycle (and I am not running the ABU duals).
I'm interested to see how well Hedron Archive plays out. I wasn't impressed with Chalice (blasphemy right?) and I recently cut Coldsteel Heart too so I would be open for another rock. Thran Dynamo won't be the cut seeing how Archive is for control... requesting detailed testing on this!
I'm interested to see how well Hedron Archive plays out. I wasn't impressed with Chalice (blasphemy right?) and I recently cut Coldsteel Heart too so I would be open for another rock. Thran Dynamo won't be the cut seeing how Archive is for control... requesting detailed testing on this!
What was your issue with coldsteel heart? It always fixes for what you need
No issue really. Solid rock but I run all the signets now and I didn't need another in the 2 slot. If I didn't run all the signets I'd slot it in again.
If you run all the signets in a cube that size, you probably shouldn't use any other mana rocks. I only want/need 5 2cc rocks before it starts to have a detrimental impact on the format, and that's at 540.
Not sure what you mean about a detrimental impact on the environment (which sounds really bad)... The artifact and Wildfire decks have been more consistent but I wouldn't say either has been dominant or anything. I found the aggro suffers and green ramp becomes diminished/irrelevant arguments to be untrue... because if anything "dominates" my cube it's actually the aggro decks.
Not sure what you mean about a detrimental impact on the environment (which sounds really bad)... The artifact and Wildfire decks have been more consistent but I wouldn't say either has been dominant or anything. I found the aggro suffers and green ramp becomes diminished/irrelevant arguments to be untrue... because if anything "dominates" my cube it's actually the aggro decks.
Same here. Without enough rocks the control decks are too slow. Wrath on turn 3 is crucial to survive against fast aggro decks, at least in my 360. For my number crunching on the rocks i don't include moxen bc every deck type wants them.
I agree you need enough rocks. But 10 2cc rocks in 360 we found to be too many. Decks that want those effects should compete for those effects, and when you have every one of them with access to as many as they can grab, it had a bad impact on the draft process. I agree that Signets in and of themselves don't "kill aggro" or "invalidate green". But that doesn't mean that having a bottomless supply of mana rocks is a beneficial thing for the health of the cube.
It's similar to fixing. Every deck will want as much of it as they can get, and the more you add, the more decks will use. But that doesn't mean that the best thing for the cube is to provide so much free fixing that players don't have to prioritize it when drafting, can auto-splash any card they want, and force 5CC without having to try. It's all about finding the right balance, so that decks that need them can get enough to function without having so many that they don't have to prioritize them and can force archetypes that want the effects with no effort.
I agree you need enough rocks. But 10 2cc rocks in 360 we found to be too many. Decks that want those effects should compete for those effects, and when you have every one of them with access to as many as they can grab, it had a bad impact on the draft process. I agree that Signets in and of themselves don't "kill aggro" or "invalidate green". But that doesn't mean that having a bottomless supply of mana rocks is a beneficial thing for the health of the cube.
It's similar to fixing. Every deck will want as much of it as they can get, and the more you add, the more decks will use. But that doesn't mean that the best thing for the cube is to provide so much free fixing that players don't have to prioritize it when drafting, can auto-splash any card they want, and force 5CC without having to try. It's all about finding the right balance, so that decks that need them can get enough to function without having so many that they don't have to prioritize them and can force archetypes that want the effects with no effort.
We'll have do agree to disagree. Like there needs to be enough 2 power 1 drops to have ~3 aggro decks in an 8 man draft there needs to be enogh 2cc rocks to get ~3 control decks in the same draft. And 10/360 was a good number in our experience.
Stasis Snare -> Journey to Nowhere
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar -> Ranger of Eos
Scatter to the Winds -> Turnabout
Ob Nixilis Reignited -> Phyrexian Arena
Ruinous Path -> Whip of Erebos
Drana, Liberator of Malakir -> (Lifebane Zombie/Master of the Feast)
Greenwarden of Murasa -> Conclave Naturalists
From Beyond -> Awakening Zone
Hedron Archive -> Chromatic Lantern
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger -> Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Kiora, Master of the Depths -> Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Lumbering Falls -> Hinterland Harbor
Shambling Vent -> Caves of Koilos
Overall, a decent amount of reasonable cards, not just that many slam dunks.
WWWWW :
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar ---> (Ojutai Exemplars)
UUUUU :
Scatter to the Winds---> (Repeal or Compulsive Research)
BBBBB :
Drana, Liberator of Malakir ---> (Silumgar Assassin or Tainted Pact)
Ruinous Path ---> (Ultimate Price)
RRRRR :
None ( )
GGGGG :
Scythe Leopard ---> (Wild Dogs)
WUBRG :
Lumbering Falls ---> (Hinterland Harbor)
Shambling Vent ---> (Isolated Chapel)
XXXXX :
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger ---> (Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre)
Hedron Archive ---> (Gilded Lotus or Pentad Prism)
Haven't tested any yet because I wanted to make a global update after the complete release of the set, so I don't have any results for now. Will post as soon as I have some interesting things to share! Gideon, Drana, Ulamog and both lands are all expected to stay and I just need to confirm the right cut for it. For the rest, I think it has to see some play to actually compile some results before taking a final decision.
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
I'm still not sure on Ulamog. I need to slow down my cube and add super ramp if I want it to be playable.
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
Anywho, is Swell of Growth on anybody's radar? I run a 360 unpowered, and any chance to combine resources (ramp and pump) into one card seems invaluable to me.
Scatter to the Winds > Faerie Trickery
Drana, Liberator of Malakir > Sidisi, Undead Vizier
The two man-lands once the cycle is complete, and probably Greenwarden of Murasa > Vigor once it is vetted in Standard.
My cube aims to showcase the most powerful spells that were once Standard legal from the Lorwyn block forward. Both the individual cards and the archetypes are heavily influenced by the decks and cards that saw competitive play during their lifetime in Standard (and to a lesser extent Modern). In card selection, preference goes to cards that made a greater impact on any constructed format. An average FNMer should feel nostalgic while playing this cube.
I prefer Mutagenic Growth / Vines of Vastwood over Swell of Growth.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
I'm adding 11 cards total at the moment but I felt this set had much more potential and a lot of the cards felt 'safe' or dumbed down. I actually think this is one of the smallest additions to my cube of any set release since Journey. That being said any addition is welcome and luckily us cubers have Commander 2015 coming up in just two months time!
Excited for:
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger => Vaultbreaker (Squee, Goblin Nabob is moving back to my Red section from my Colorless)
Wooo reanimateable huge eldarzi. So much fun
Greenwarden of Murasa => Avenger of Zendikar
Will my opponent concede after the second plow under or will they allow me to cast it a third time?
Drana, Liberator of Malakir => Lifebane Zombie
Drana is so cool. I love making my armies giant.
Yay, Planeswalkers
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar => Ajani Steadfast
Gideon is just a stronger card. Never got to join Ajani with superfriends
Kiora, Master of the Depths => Simic Charm
Well this switch seems good. I do hate it though when new versions have the exact same CC's as their older version (I'm looking at you Sorin)
Ob Nixilis, Reignited => Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
I like Ob a lot and think he's an excellent control card.
In but meh
Hedron Archive => Basalt Monolith
Ruinous Path => Malicious Affliction
The non-black clause comes up a lot on Malicious Affliction. Hoping Ruinous Path plays better
Man Lands => Check Lands
Scythe Leopard => I felt green was really lacking in early aggro plays so I'm adding a whole green aggro package here including Rancor, Wolfbitten Captive and Jungle Lion. Cuts to be determined later
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I want to start with the tango/double check/BFZ lands. These cards have been absolutely fantastic in our Cube & everyone in our playgroup agrees that they belong. After this block is complete I will run fetches, duals, shocks, manlands, the BFZ duals & my 6th cycle will be a combination of pains/Horizon Canopy/Dimir and Azorius check lands. Some may think that 6 sets of lands are too much for a 540 Cube but we cut a few mana fixers/colorless cards & this feels like a good amount. Being able to fetch the BFZ duals is sweet & their drawback is often minimized over the last several weeks of playtesting with them. I think all Cubes 450 & larger should at least test them.
Gideon has been great & I’ve been fortunate to draft him several times. Absolutely love everything he brings to the Cube and wish we would get a walker of his quality in black or red.
Kiora got played in two different decks last night and was solid. Being able to grab a creature & land in a Simic deck was great. One time it grabbed Meloku & a land which was tremendous. Not replacing old Kiora because I think these cards serve different purposes.
Greenwarden of Murasa is a card that I thought would be pretty good & it played even better than that yesterday. The last draft saw it in a deck with Eternal Witness & many recursions were had. I know you can’t recur Greenwarden but playing against the Recurring Nightmare/Bone Shredder/Shriekmaw deck with Greenwarden was tremendously awkward. It played well in other games too & this card definitely proved its worth in my 540 yesterday.
Woodland Wanderer was a 5/5 for 4 twice in my deck which was great. I didn’t get it in my Worldknit deck which would have been a 6/6 for 4 every time. I’m a big fan of this card in my Cube.
Ulamog was in a weird deck last night and it only got to attack once which lead to an instant win. This card will belong in my Cube.
Those are the only impressions I have for last night. We’re testing another 6-8 cards including the manlands, Ruinous Path, Ob Nixilis & Drana, Liberator of Malakir but we didn’t get enough time with them to declare anything.
I love extensive testing of new sets!
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
onceIF they're printed (since I don't have awesome Mirage fetches for those guilds). But in testing, they weren't good enough for my powered 540 environment. Details of their testing is outlined in my preview article.I agree with all of kingneb's other assessments of the set so far, and all those experiences reflect mine.
You certainly can! The second trigger (the exile one) is a may, so in a deck where you know you're going to abuse the ETB trigger, you can elect to let it go to the graveyard.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Lumbering Falls- Didn't see play because there isn't anyone drafting a simmic deck.
Drana, Liberator of Malakir- This is really good. I play it in the same as Mardu Strike Leader and the first strike buff makes it a pretty neat anthem effect. I might replace Vampire Nighthawk or Mardu Strike Leader with it because I don't want to increase my 3 drop any further.
Ruinous Path- This is AWESOME. It kills a fair sum of Planeswalker last night, but that might be due to my cube size. Nothing feels better than Pathing a planeswalker that's about to ultimate.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar- It's not in my deck, so the player that play it like it a lot. I might be replacing Goldmane with it because I think Goldmane is the weakest card in my 4 cmc section.
Greenwarden of Murasa- It's a good card. And my player like it. However, the player that play it also say he like Prime time, hornet queen, and woodfall more. As such, it probably won't make the cut. I myself think it's about the #4 green fatties behind those options, but that's just me from facing the card and not from playing the card, so it might not be accurate.
I might give Ulamog the swirl later but I'll need to slow down my cube more first.
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
- Carrier Thrall
- Drana, Liberator of Malakir
- Greenwarden of Murasa
- Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
- Hedron Archive
- Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
- Lumbering Falls
- Shambling Vent
Lowest number of includes in a long time, but still an important set because manlandsMy 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Same here. Without enough rocks the control decks are too slow. Wrath on turn 3 is crucial to survive against fast aggro decks, at least in my 360. For my number crunching on the rocks i don't include moxen bc every deck type wants them.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
It's similar to fixing. Every deck will want as much of it as they can get, and the more you add, the more decks will use. But that doesn't mean that the best thing for the cube is to provide so much free fixing that players don't have to prioritize it when drafting, can auto-splash any card they want, and force 5CC without having to try. It's all about finding the right balance, so that decks that need them can get enough to function without having so many that they don't have to prioritize them and can force archetypes that want the effects with no effort.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
We'll have do agree to disagree. Like there needs to be enough 2 power 1 drops to have ~3 aggro decks in an 8 man draft there needs to be enogh 2cc rocks to get ~3 control decks in the same draft. And 10/360 was a good number in our experience.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.