Agreed. I'd cut light and shadow AND feast and famine before wargear... (I don't run feast and famine at the moment).
But, a lot of people are religious about their cycles and the swords are one of the premier cycles in cube
In aggro decks I like Wargear more than swords a lot of the time except for cases where the protection is super relevant. Being able to cast and equip on 3 mana is huge, as your 2 or 1 drop will be swinging for 5+ usually.
Goodking's going to be delighted to see the drama he stirred up when he checks in on this thread. Such passion from everyone, I love it!
In any event, I guess discussing this is (just barely) on topic, since the result of my BFZ testing is, "Whoa, I have way too many 3CC cards". I'll bring my hierarchy questions to the This or That thread, though.
I am willing to be so bold as to say I would rather play no swords with wargear instead if any swords and no wargear. It is one of the definitive balls out cards in cube. Hard aggro needs Wargear, and has won sooooo many games with it.
I am willing to be so bold as to say I would rather play no swords with wargear instead if any swords and no wargear. It is one of the definitive balls out cards in cube. Hard aggro needs Wargear, and has won sooooo many games with it.
Wargear+Goblin Guide+Berserk+Boros Charm remained one of my most memorable play in cube.
This is my final change for the set.
Ajani Goldmane -> Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Goldmane ability is more unique, but Gideon just pack so much power.
Malicious Affliction -> Ruinous Path
Mardu Strike Leader -> Drana, Liberator of Malakir
More planeswalker bullet is always welcome. And Strike Leader is decent, but probably the weakest amongst my current 3 drop.
Trygon Predator -> Lumbering Falls
I might him back in for Mystic Snake later if the disenchant effect fall too much. For now, this is the change I’m going with. I’m passing on Kiora. I don’t think it’s better than the cards I’m running.
This is.. it. I’ll pass on the rest. Ulamog and some mega ramp package might make it in. I’ll see about that later.
There are a few cards where I've cut them and heard the same thing - "no, it's a staple, you should never cut it" and then a year and a half later? It's in no-one's cube any more. I think people mentally attach staple status to something and then don't scrutinize it properly. However, this is one of the ones I genuinely like but is (as hoodwink pointed out) in the congested 3 slot.
I still think Wargear is a great card, but it is more of a luxury than a requirement at this stage. The state of three drops in black, red and white has improved immmensely in all the aggro colours from the point we had a few years ago where Wargear was straight up needed to actually give aggro something to do at 3 CMC. I could possibly get behind cutting a Sword instead for cost diversity, though, since I feel like 6x 3 drop equips is a ton even if Wargear and the Swords behave differently. I do like the pseudo 3/2 haste for 3... I'll see what others think.
EDIT: In the wake of all this my gaze has shifted to SoWaP. Effect has always felt a little boring to me, despite being extremely strong.
We have cubed with only 2 Swords for five years, so cutting 1 or 2 of the weaker Swords seems to make more sense than to cut Grafted Wargear. Just cut Sword of War and Peace and/or Sword of Feast and Famine instead. I really like symmetry and cycles, but a smaller cube doesn't need all 5 Swords, imo. Wargear adds more variety than Sword #5.
I still like Faith's Fetters a lot. And I am not a fan of Quarantine Field. The WW cost is really bad for artifact and ramp decks.
Ob Nixilis Reignited may very well be just as good as Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath. I just want fat 5-drop fliers more than yet another creature kill / value machine. And I don't want to run both.
There are a few cards where I've cut them and heard the same thing - "no, it's a staple, you should never cut it" and then a year and a half later? It's in no-one's cube any more. I think people mentally attach staple status to something and then don't scrutinize it properly. However, this is one of the ones I genuinely like but is (as hoodwink pointed out) in the congested 3 slot.
This happen to me before as well. That said, I'm of the opinion that Wargear is still a very strong card. Also, whether it's Wargear or the weakest sword, I still like them more than Hedron Archive, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, Engineered Explosives, Hangarback Walker. There are times where the old cards are stronger than the new card you're adding. I think this is one of those times.
I agree with the pattern of people here saying "no its a staple" and then within a few months they cut the card. There are a few posters here who will speak in absolutes but then things change and they speak in a different set of absolutes for whatever way the wind is blowing. Its funny because then a bunch of people will "baaaaa" along with it.
I agree that the new duals are likely better than the check (buddy) lands if you have fetches to interact with them. At least close enough to warrant testing. Stasis Snare is the only card on that list that seems underpowered for a 560-card powered cube (to me).
I agree with the pattern of people here saying "no its a staple" and then within a few months they cut the card. There are a few posters here who will speak in absolutes but then things change and they speak in a different set of absolutes for whatever way the wind is blowing. Its funny because then a bunch of people will "baaaaa" along with it.
For sure, we've talked about this before and I agree. I try to look at the analysis instead of the "it is/isn't a staple" talk and see how applicable that is. Is a card a staple because it's better than all other options and it performs at the highest level whenever it makes a 40? Or is it a staple because there really aren't any other options and there could conceivably be a better card comparably printed?
A card like Jackal Pup is a great example of the latter. To me, it's currently a staple because there aren't that many great 2 power 1 drops in red. But I guarantee in the next 5-10 years there will be a point where Jackal Pup is no longer needed because the Pup clause will be outdated and strictly updated.
I think Wargear falls more under the category of "this is a really great card and they would have to print something incredible to best it", but it's not so great that I can't consider cutting it if they print an abundance of exceptional equipment. Is it a staple like JTMS or Recurring Nightmare, cards I would never ever consider cutting? No. Is it a staple like Jackal Pup, a card I feel like you have to run because it's what you want and there are no better options? No. It's probably a combination of the two qualifiers, which is good enough to keep it in lists for a long time IMO.
WotC is very conservative with the power level of equipment. If you look at the "staple" eauipment, they all were printed in only 3 blocks: Mirrodin, Kamigawa, and Scars of Mirrodin. It's no coincidence that the staples came from only these 3 blocks: Mirrodin was an artifact themed block and debuted equipment, so WotC really didn't know what they were doing yet. Kamigawa came right after Mirrodin, so equipment was still young and WotC didn't learn from their mistakes from Skullclamp get, so not only did we get Jitte, but it was also in a Rats precon deck.
After Kamigawa, most equipment were pretty toned down until Scars, the next artifact block since the original Mirrodin, and that gave us 3 more swords + Batterskull. Looking at this trend, we probably won't get another blockbuster equipment until the next artifact themed block comes out, but I wouldn't hold my breath becaus even if they print strictly better Wargear that gives trample or something, I'd probably rock that alongside the original.
Here's what we decided on for the BFZ update. Twelve cards is a lot, I think.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar ---> Kor Sanctifiers
Scatter to the Winds ---> Repeal
Drana, Liberator of Malakir ---> Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Ruinous Path ---> Smallpox
Greenwarden of Murasa ---> Garruk, Primal Hunter
Woodland Wanderer ---> Surrak, the Hunt Caller
Scythe Leopard ---> Boon Satyr
Hedron Archive ---> Guardian Idol
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger ---> Molten-Tail Masticore
Lumbering Falls ---> Yavimaya Coast
Shambling Vent ---> Fetid Heath
Kiora, Master of the Depths ---> Sagu Mauler
I'm undecided on if I want to test the new duals in the slots for the check lands. I'm just not sure if the fetchability outweighs the slowness. We might test them, but we might wait for feedback.
I am just sad the new battle duals work so poorly with the Mirage Fetches. Yes you can grab them but two turns of tapped is rough. Otherwise I would definitely recommend tehm for big cubes as a third cycle of fetchable lands, and include the mirage fetches to go with. Somewhere in the 720 range. But they might just be too slow.
I think the new lands are solid deeper options, although I like a lot of the pain/fast lands better in many combinations. However, some groups don't run ABU duals for various reasons, and for those groups I would elevate the new duals a long way as a needed second set of fetchable lands, above nearly every other land cycle. If you have Shocks and ABUs, you're probably OK.
Shock Lands and Man Lands could swap position depending on preference and color combinaison. Some Tap Lands are also great in some color cases (mostly in aggro). The same for Mirage Fetch Lands (mostly in control). Some cube designers also like Bounce Lands. For me, it looks like those new lands are at the 6th or 7th slot, depending on their color combinaison and marginal options present in some guilds (Ex : Horizon Canopy). Even Filter Lands are directly in competition with them. So big cubes may like them, but at 630 and less, I don't think anyone should run them.
I think the tango lands are better then pain or check lands. Think of how many times you fetch a shock land turn one and not untap it. Once we have a full cycle it will balance out.
My main fear is how important shock lands become. You probably won't see one after 2nd pick anymore.
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But, a lot of people are religious about their cycles and the swords are one of the premier cycles in cube
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And I agree that cutting a sword is crazy talk.
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In any event, I guess discussing this is (just barely) on topic, since the result of my BFZ testing is, "Whoa, I have way too many 3CC cards". I'll bring my hierarchy questions to the This or That thread, though.
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Wargear+Goblin Guide+Berserk+Boros Charm remained one of my most memorable play in cube.
This is my final change for the set.
Ajani Goldmane -> Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Goldmane ability is more unique, but Gideon just pack so much power.
Malicious Affliction -> Ruinous Path
Mardu Strike Leader -> Drana, Liberator of Malakir
More planeswalker bullet is always welcome. And Strike Leader is decent, but probably the weakest amongst my current 3 drop.
Trygon Predator -> Lumbering Falls
I might him back in for Mystic Snake later if the disenchant effect fall too much. For now, this is the change I’m going with. I’m passing on Kiora. I don’t think it’s better than the cards I’m running.
This is.. it. I’ll pass on the rest. Ulamog and some mega ramp package might make it in. I’ll see about that later.
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There are a few cards where I've cut them and heard the same thing - "no, it's a staple, you should never cut it" and then a year and a half later? It's in no-one's cube any more. I think people mentally attach staple status to something and then don't scrutinize it properly. However, this is one of the ones I genuinely like but is (as hoodwink pointed out) in the congested 3 slot.
I still think Wargear is a great card, but it is more of a luxury than a requirement at this stage. The state of three drops in black, red and white has improved immmensely in all the aggro colours from the point we had a few years ago where Wargear was straight up needed to actually give aggro something to do at 3 CMC. I could possibly get behind cutting a Sword instead for cost diversity, though, since I feel like 6x 3 drop equips is a ton even if Wargear and the Swords behave differently. I do like the pseudo 3/2 haste for 3... I'll see what others think.
EDIT: In the wake of all this my gaze has shifted to SoWaP. Effect has always felt a little boring to me, despite being extremely strong.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I still like Faith's Fetters a lot. And I am not a fan of Quarantine Field. The WW cost is really bad for artifact and ramp decks.
Ob Nixilis Reignited may very well be just as good as Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath. I just want fat 5-drop fliers more than yet another creature kill / value machine. And I don't want to run both.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
I think this is very true, in hindsight.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
This happen to me before as well. That said, I'm of the opinion that Wargear is still a very strong card. Also, whether it's Wargear or the weakest sword, I still like them more than Hedron Archive, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, Engineered Explosives, Hangarback Walker. There are times where the old cards are stronger than the new card you're adding. I think this is one of those times.
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Gideon
Stasis Snare
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Scatter to the Winds [test]
Ob Nixilis [test]
Drana
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Scythe Leopard
Greenwarden of Murasa
Kiora
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I'm running the 2010 core lands, we call them buddy lands, and I think the new dual lands are better because of saclands. Thoughts?
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For sure, we've talked about this before and I agree. I try to look at the analysis instead of the "it is/isn't a staple" talk and see how applicable that is. Is a card a staple because it's better than all other options and it performs at the highest level whenever it makes a 40? Or is it a staple because there really aren't any other options and there could conceivably be a better card comparably printed?
A card like Jackal Pup is a great example of the latter. To me, it's currently a staple because there aren't that many great 2 power 1 drops in red. But I guarantee in the next 5-10 years there will be a point where Jackal Pup is no longer needed because the Pup clause will be outdated and strictly updated.
I think Wargear falls more under the category of "this is a really great card and they would have to print something incredible to best it", but it's not so great that I can't consider cutting it if they print an abundance of exceptional equipment. Is it a staple like JTMS or Recurring Nightmare, cards I would never ever consider cutting? No. Is it a staple like Jackal Pup, a card I feel like you have to run because it's what you want and there are no better options? No. It's probably a combination of the two qualifiers, which is good enough to keep it in lists for a long time IMO.
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After Kamigawa, most equipment were pretty toned down until Scars, the next artifact block since the original Mirrodin, and that gave us 3 more swords + Batterskull. Looking at this trend, we probably won't get another blockbuster equipment until the next artifact themed block comes out, but I wouldn't hold my breath becaus even if they print strictly better Wargear that gives trample or something, I'd probably rock that alongside the original.
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Gideon, Ally of Zendikar ---> Kor Sanctifiers
Scatter to the Winds ---> Repeal
Drana, Liberator of Malakir ---> Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Ruinous Path ---> Smallpox
Greenwarden of Murasa ---> Garruk, Primal Hunter
Woodland Wanderer ---> Surrak, the Hunt Caller
Scythe Leopard ---> Boon Satyr
Hedron Archive ---> Guardian Idol
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger ---> Molten-Tail Masticore
Lumbering Falls ---> Yavimaya Coast
Shambling Vent ---> Fetid Heath
Kiora, Master of the Depths ---> Sagu Mauler
I'm undecided on if I want to test the new duals in the slots for the check lands. I'm just not sure if the fetchability outweighs the slowness. We might test them, but we might wait for feedback.
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Fetch Lands > ABU Lands > Schock Lands > Man Lands > Pain Lands > Check Lands > Tango Lands (or others)
Shock Lands and Man Lands could swap position depending on preference and color combinaison. Some Tap Lands are also great in some color cases (mostly in aggro). The same for Mirage Fetch Lands (mostly in control). Some cube designers also like Bounce Lands. For me, it looks like those new lands are at the 6th or 7th slot, depending on their color combinaison and marginal options present in some guilds (Ex : Horizon Canopy). Even Filter Lands are directly in competition with them. So big cubes may like them, but at 630 and less, I don't think anyone should run them.
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My main fear is how important shock lands become. You probably won't see one after 2nd pick anymore.