Mediocore main deck card for control, but phenomenal as a sideboard option, mix of a way to hit planeswalkers, sweep creatures or kill artifacts is a very flexible powerful card against the right deck. Imagine a green deck with multiple equipment pieces, mana dorks and planeswalkers, should be AT LEAST 2 for 1 most of the time with occasional total blowouts.
I disagree with it being a mediocre main deck card for control, I think it is an amazing main deck card for control decks in Cube. Control decks in Cube are sometimes difficult to build because you have to be prepared to face a variety of decks. This card offers great value against so many decks that I will happily maindeck it!
Also disagree about being mediocre maindeck in control. How can a cheap versatile wrath effect could be mediocre in those kind of shell? The way I see things, looks like control decks would be the best home for this spell to shine.
I am really excited for what I assume is a cycle. Let's hope it stays at 4 mana or less. I can't imagine the blue wont be amazing even if it loot,force spike, bounce.
As for this card it is really soft against aggro ... 3 mana anger of the gods is meh all over. That said it is pretty much what most red decks want against all other opponents.
Pyroclasm + Shattering your opponent's equipment sounds pretty good to me vs aggro.
I think we're getting to the point where most cubes can start naturally support burn as a viable archetype without using narrow cards such as Flame Rift. Since M14, we've gotten cards like Stoke the Flames, Exquisite Firecraft, and now this card. Turn 1 Lightning Bolt, turn 2 Incinerate, turn 3 Exquisite Firecraft, turn 4 Fiery Confluence + Fireblast is exactly 20 damage. More playable burn spells has been on the top of my wish list to a while now and this card surpasses anything playable that I could have thought of.
Its versatility is what pushes it over the top. Iw wont get drafted early but definitely be in middle picks due to versatility. Artifact removal, mass removal and reach in 1 card, and everthing in between.
I will probably cut either Keldon Vandals or... Pyroclasm? This card is so versatile it can fulfill the role of multiple cards.
Hope it comes cheap as I dont see it as a good eternal card nor a must have edh card. (But I digress)
This makes me absolutely excited about the other parts of the cycle.
I like the card... But I hate the order. You can't kill Hangarbacks or Sworded creatures that way. Shows that products like these aren't as thoroughly developed as a normal set would be.
This card feels like a slam dunk on paper for our 540 MP cube. Obviously needs testing, but versatility seems key here. 6 damage to each opponent feels, pretty powerful and seeing it sitting in a GY just waiting to be flashbacked as a finisher will likely scare the table.
As for this card it is really soft against aggro ... 3 mana anger of the gods is meh all over.
Anger of the Gods is good against aggro, but bad against most other decks. That's the reason why few cubes run it. Now, Confluence is a turn slower as a sweeper and therefore worse against aggro than Anger, but unlike Anger, it is good against all opponents. And 3 damage to all creatures for 4 mana is still decent against aggro. Should kill almost everything that they played until this point.
It just occured to me that Earthquake might be a good cut for this. It always bothered me that it doesn't hit fliers and that it hurts the caster, too. And there are matchups were it is pretty terrible. Confluence can be played similar to an X=2 or X=3 Earthquake without ever hurting you and it is so flexible that it will always do something good, no matter the matchup. I also think that just adding Confluence might give red a few too many mass removal cards, so cutting one of them could be good for archetype balance.
I definitely won't be cutting Earthquake for this. The scalability is key, and the player damage without losing creature damage allows me to better deal with creatures and 'walkers in the same board state. That, and the fact that it's more cost effective as a sweeper and only requires 1 red, and it can be a part of the flying Moat-type control plan puts it way ahead for me.
I WILL be finding room for Fiery Confluence; just not at the expense of Earthquake.
But what does Earthquake do against opposing artifacts? Nothing! So, Fiery Confluence is clearly better!
Joking aside, I would never cut Earthquake for a "3 damage to all creatures" for 2RR sorcery. Confluence is so much more though. It can go into all types of decks and always does something relevant. Both of these aren't true for Earthquake.
Since Confluence has a decent mass removal mode, I am cutting my weakest red mass removal card. Seems to make as much sense as cutting a cheap artifact removal spell like Smash to Smithereens for Confluence because it can also destroy artifacts.
Lastly, my long experience with Earthquake in cube just doesn't match the praise that the card gets from some of you around here. It is an ok card, but definitely not a must have.
I'll be cutting Chandra, Pyromaster for this. I have been less and less impressed by that card the longer I play with it, and this looks like it could fill a similar spot in a midrange/control deck.
For some reason I'm thinking it'll be bounce a creature, but bouncing 3 creatures seems reeeeeeeeeeeal good and I don't know what cost they'd need to have that at.
For some reason I'm thinking it'll be bounce a creature, but bouncing 3 creatures seems reeeeeeeeeeeal good and I don't know what cost they'd need to have that at.
It could certainly cost more than 4, it's more likely than not that the confluence cycle of cards will have different costs as the commands and a lot of other similarly-styled commands have. Maybe it'll be a keep-tapped-til-next-turn effect except for permanents. I'm going to guess: draw a card, keep permanent tapped, some scry amount (maybe 2?).
It could certainly cost more than 4, it's more likely than not that the confluence cycle of cards will have different costs as the commands and a lot of other similarly-styled commands have. Maybe it'll be a keep-tapped-til-next-turn effect except for permanents. I'm going to guess: draw a card, keep permanent tapped, some scry amount (maybe 2?).
If that is the case I hope the Scry is the first mode listed. If it's Scry 2 and drawing a card is one of the modes then you could Scry 2 and draw two cards, which seems reasonable at 4 mana (Foresee). I'd rather have a soft counter option than a keep-tapped. Maybe something like this:
2UU (Instant)
-Scry 2
-Counter target spell unless controller pays 3.
-Draw a card.
...which would pretty much be a weird version of Cryptic Command but would totally rad when you can hit all three modes.
It could certainly cost more than 4, it's more likely than not that the confluence cycle of cards will have different costs as the commands and a lot of other similarly-styled commands have. Maybe it'll be a keep-tapped-til-next-turn effect except for permanents. I'm going to guess: draw a card, keep permanent tapped, some scry amount (maybe 2?).
If that is the case I hope the Scry is the first mode listed. If it's Scry 2 and drawing a card is one of the modes then you could Scry 2 and draw two cards, which seems reasonable at 4 mana (Foresee). I'd rather have a soft counter option than a keep-tapped. Maybe something like this:
2UU (Instant)
-Scry 2
-Counter target spell unless controller pays 3.
-Draw a card.
...which would pretty much be a weird version of Cryptic Command but would totally rad when you can hit all three modes.
Seems too good to be true if you ask me. Counter a spell, I draw two? Maybe at 1UUU, but even then I doubt they will print a counter that strong.
It could certainly cost more than 4, it's more likely than not that the confluence cycle of cards will have different costs as the commands and a lot of other similarly-styled commands have. Maybe it'll be a keep-tapped-til-next-turn effect except for permanents. I'm going to guess: draw a card, keep permanent tapped, some scry amount (maybe 2?).
If that is the case I hope the Scry is the first mode listed. If it's Scry 2 and drawing a card is one of the modes then you could Scry 2 and draw two cards, which seems reasonable at 4 mana (Foresee). I'd rather have a soft counter option than a keep-tapped. Maybe something like this:
2UU (Instant)
-Scry 2
-Counter target spell unless controller pays 3.
-Draw a card.
...which would pretty much be a weird version of Cryptic Command but would totally rad when you can hit all three modes.
To be honest, if that was the case, I'd just draw 3 most of the time. (but I'm a weirdo who likes Counter+Bounce more than Counter+Draw with Cryptic Command. )
Yeah, this is really good. All modes, and all combinations of modes will be relevant, and it fits in all archetypes. It may not make it into each and every deck, but usually it should be good. Shatter in a powered cube is always welcome, and in more aggressive decks you can burn their face, while in more controlish decks you get a scalable sweeper.
For a blue one, I'd want something more like this:
1UU
- Scry 1
- Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1
- Target permanent doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
I think that is the closest suggestions so far as to what we will actually get but I am afraid it would be costed at 4. I really don't like scry 1 in mulitples. I think we will get
Draw a card and discard a card
Force Spike
Tap target non land permanent it doesn't untap during it's controllers next untap.
Also disagree about being mediocre maindeck in control. How can a cheap versatile wrath effect could be mediocre in those kind of shell? The way I see things, looks like control decks would be the best home for this spell to shine.
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Pyroclasm + Shattering your opponent's equipment sounds pretty good to me vs aggro.
I think we're getting to the point where most cubes can start naturally support burn as a viable archetype without using narrow cards such as Flame Rift. Since M14, we've gotten cards like Stoke the Flames, Exquisite Firecraft, and now this card. Turn 1 Lightning Bolt, turn 2 Incinerate, turn 3 Exquisite Firecraft, turn 4 Fiery Confluence + Fireblast is exactly 20 damage. More playable burn spells has been on the top of my wish list to a while now and this card surpasses anything playable that I could have thought of.
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Having 8 other relevant modes is insane. Really hope the other confluences are cubable.
Edit: 9 other modes, actually.
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I will probably cut either Keldon Vandals or... Pyroclasm? This card is so versatile it can fulfill the role of multiple cards.
Hope it comes cheap as I dont see it as a good eternal card nor a must have edh card. (But I digress)
This makes me absolutely excited about the other parts of the cycle.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
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UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Sounds like fun to me
It just occured to me that Earthquake might be a good cut for this. It always bothered me that it doesn't hit fliers and that it hurts the caster, too. And there are matchups were it is pretty terrible. Confluence can be played similar to an X=2 or X=3 Earthquake without ever hurting you and it is so flexible that it will always do something good, no matter the matchup. I also think that just adding Confluence might give red a few too many mass removal cards, so cutting one of them could be good for archetype balance.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
I WILL be finding room for Fiery Confluence; just not at the expense of Earthquake.
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Joking aside, I would never cut Earthquake for a "3 damage to all creatures" for 2RR sorcery. Confluence is so much more though. It can go into all types of decks and always does something relevant. Both of these aren't true for Earthquake.
Since Confluence has a decent mass removal mode, I am cutting my weakest red mass removal card. Seems to make as much sense as cutting a cheap artifact removal spell like Smash to Smithereens for Confluence because it can also destroy artifacts.
Lastly, my long experience with Earthquake in cube just doesn't match the praise that the card gets from some of you around here. It is an ok card, but definitely not a must have.
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It could certainly cost more than 4, it's more likely than not that the confluence cycle of cards will have different costs as the commands and a lot of other similarly-styled commands have. Maybe it'll be a keep-tapped-til-next-turn effect except for permanents. I'm going to guess: draw a card, keep permanent tapped, some scry amount (maybe 2?).
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If that is the case I hope the Scry is the first mode listed. If it's Scry 2 and drawing a card is one of the modes then you could Scry 2 and draw two cards, which seems reasonable at 4 mana (Foresee). I'd rather have a soft counter option than a keep-tapped. Maybe something like this:
2UU (Instant)
-Scry 2
-Counter target spell unless controller pays 3.
-Draw a card.
...which would pretty much be a weird version of Cryptic Command but would totally rad when you can hit all three modes.
Seems too good to be true if you ask me. Counter a spell, I draw two? Maybe at 1UUU, but even then I doubt they will print a counter that strong.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
To be honest, if that was the case, I'd just draw 3 most of the time. (but I'm a weirdo who likes Counter+Bounce more than Counter+Draw with Cryptic Command. )
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Hoping for cycle ...
1UU
- Scry 1
- Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1
- Target permanent doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
I think that is the closest suggestions so far as to what we will actually get but I am afraid it would be costed at 4. I really don't like scry 1 in mulitples. I think we will get
Draw a card and discard a card
Force Spike
Tap target non land permanent it doesn't untap during it's controllers next untap.