I think this beats out any competition in Orzhov outside of the top 3. I know we've been getting a good chunk of 3 CMC "universal" removal spells in white to the point where we can cut similar type cards, but this is a cut above most of them since it's an instant. It's truly a premium removal spell, even by cube standards.
I can see this being popular in cube / EDH for a long time, foils of this card will be in high demand.
Hey can we get a consensus on whether this is pound for pound, grass roots, raw power/versatilty better than vindicate? I'm definitely getting one soon to replace Mortify and I just can't determine which one I like more...
Just leave your vote at the end of every comment, thanks!
I'm feeling like when you factor in the loss of life, it trades off for the exile ability, and instant trades for permanent, so... damn are they even? ugh.
This is no where close to Vindicate. Most removal isn't. That's why it's the "Vindicate Test". I don't want to speak for everyone here, but I feel pretty safe speaking for everyone here that Vindicate is head-and-shoulders better than this.
I don't run Abrupt Decay because I don't want to crowd my Golgari with 2 spot removal spells. I feel like the same thing is going on here. I definitely don't feel that I need more removal in my cube so, as great as this card is, I don't think I'll be including it.
Hey can we get a consensus on whether this is pound for pound, grass roots, raw power/versatilty better than vindicate? I'm definitely getting one soon to replace Mortify and I just can't determine which one I like more...
Just leave your vote at the end of every comment, thanks!
I'm feeling like when you factor in the loss of life, it trades off for the exile ability, and instant trades for permanent, so... damn are they even? ugh.
This is no where close to Vindicate. Most removal isn't. That's why it's the "Vindicate Test". I don't want to speak for everyone here, but I feel pretty safe speaking for everyone here that Vindicate is head-and-shoulders better than this.
Yeah, being able to hit lands and not paying life is better than instant, IMO, as instant speed is irrelevant against PW's (which people often mistake).
I don't think Vindicate is MILES better. Having no drawback and able to target lands is nice, but instant speed + exile is no joke. 3 life is steep though, especially in black.
This card is definatly pushed, but I'm also in the camp that i want at least most of my guild-slots to do a bit more then just removal. I think i'm going to stick with Vindicate, Sorin, Lingering Souls, Sin Collector and Magister of Worth for now.
+1 for Magister of Worth being a sick card. We just cut Ayli for her.
Hey can we get a consensus on whether this is pound for pound, grass roots, raw power/versatilty better than vindicate? I'm definitely getting one soon to replace Mortify and I just can't determine which one I like more...
Just leave your vote at the end of every comment, thanks!
I'm feeling like when you factor in the loss of life, it trades off for the exile ability, and instant trades for permanent, so... damn are they even? ugh.
This is no where close to Vindicate. Most removal isn't. That's why it's the "Vindicate Test". I don't want to speak for everyone here, but I feel pretty safe speaking for everyone here that Vindicate is head-and-shoulders better than this.
Yeah, being able to hit lands and not paying life is better than instant, IMO, as instant speed is irrelevant against PW's (which people often mistake).
You're telling me you've never hero's downfalled at the end of their turn after they play a pw?
You're telling me you've never hero's downfalled at the end of their turn after they play a pw?
Sure, but that only matters if I'm holding up mana for the removal spell and I really didn't want to use the mana next turn. What I was referring to was that a lot of people, especially newer players, seem to think you can kill a PW before the first activation if you use an instant, which you of course can't.
As I said, instant speed is not worth losing the land killing and 3 life.
Lingering Souls and Unburial Rites are such amazing magic cards I can't imagine ever cutting them for this. Each card provides so much value and flexibility. With only a single color in the original spell they are no problem to cast and the splash for the flashback is usually easy. Unburial Rites can be particularly devastating in my experiences.
I might sprain something with how fast this is going to go into my cube. Sure it competes with the 3cmc orzhov Vindicate but it's too baller not to auto include.
I run Mortify, Utter End and Sorin LoI in my Orzhov section. Lingering sneaks around in the White section (shame on me). I recently purchased a Vindicate to replace one of the removal spells and now this new one can replace the other. I am fine for my Orzhov section to run multiple removal spells.
Looks good, Vindicate has all ways been a little out of my price range (17 quid for some cardboard is a lot) so hopefully I can get a cheap one or open one of these. Name is a bit meh, but I'm starting to realize I don't like plot points becoming flavour-full spells. I would have preferred a cleaner name but I'm just nit picking I guess.
The ability to hit lands makes vindicate the best removal spell in cube IMO. Losing that ability is clutch. 3 Life is not flavor text also. Instant speed doesn't come close to make up for that.
Destroying a land of a mana choked opponent can often win the game by itself. Even though im uncommonly destroying a land with vindicate, when it's good, it's insane.
It obviously doesn't have to beat vindicate to be cubable tho. My issue is I'm not sure how far past the minimum threshold of 3 mana unconditional removal spells I want to go, before the next one loses a lot of appeal... I know I'm close.
I think I'll pass on it, but it's worthy of top 4/5 a slot due to power level.
On a semi-related note, After testing ayli for a long time, I like her a fair bit, but I put her behind gerrard's verdict and unburial rites and am going to cut her..
I don't think I'd cut either Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, Lingering Souls, or Vindicate for this. I like that all three of those spells bring a different effect with them. I can see cutting Lingering Souls to test it out, I guess, but I'd rather have the different options than two Vindicates. At 4 or 5 per guild, though, this is obviously in. For me this will replace the recently added Ayli. It's a bummer that she didn't have more time to shine, but it happens.
If we are talking about Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, both Lingering Souls and him are way better than this pseudo Vindicate. Vindicate is. But Anguished Unmaking is not. The 3 life point loss and the nonland clause are the reasons why.
For the sake of variety, I would not cube this over Lingering Souls / Sorin. Remember, white already has all the O-ring effects already, so this would be very redundant in a small cube. Definitely playable at 450 but I wouldn't squeeze it into anything smaller.
This does not unseat the top 3 of Vindicate, Lingering Souls and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. It's a solid option, but we may end up not running it for the same reason others before me already mentioned: redundancy on a multi-colored card.
I can see this being popular in cube / EDH for a long time, foils of this card will be in high demand.
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This is no where close to Vindicate. Most removal isn't. That's why it's the "Vindicate Test". I don't want to speak for everyone here, but I feel pretty safe speaking for everyone here that Vindicate is head-and-shoulders better than this.
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Yeah, being able to hit lands and not paying life is better than instant, IMO, as instant speed is irrelevant against PW's (which people often mistake).
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+1 for Magister of Worth being a sick card. We just cut Ayli for her.
You're telling me you've never hero's downfalled at the end of their turn after they play a pw?
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Sure, but that only matters if I'm holding up mana for the removal spell and I really didn't want to use the mana next turn. What I was referring to was that a lot of people, especially newer players, seem to think you can kill a PW before the first activation if you use an instant, which you of course can't.
As I said, instant speed is not worth losing the land killing and 3 life.
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Poor choice of words, I agree.
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Yea I know that's the reasonable thing to do but most likely I'll just end up cheating and calling souls a white card.
Personally I don't like the idea of my guild slots being creatureless, in an ideal world it would be 1 creature, 1 Planeswalker and 1 other.
Thanks for the input though.
Destroying a land of a mana choked opponent can often win the game by itself. Even though im uncommonly destroying a land with vindicate, when it's good, it's insane.
It obviously doesn't have to beat vindicate to be cubable tho. My issue is I'm not sure how far past the minimum threshold of 3 mana unconditional removal spells I want to go, before the next one loses a lot of appeal... I know I'm close.
I think I'll pass on it, but it's worthy of top 4/5 a slot due to power level.
On a semi-related note, After testing ayli for a long time, I like her a fair bit, but I put her behind gerrard's verdict and unburial rites and am going to cut her..
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If we are talking about Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, both Lingering Souls and him are way better than this pseudo Vindicate. Vindicate is. But Anguished Unmaking is not. The 3 life point loss and the nonland clause are the reasons why.
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