My question is why would you ever stick an on color effect on this? It should really only be a nonblue spell. Brainstorm ponder should never be on this card, timewalk sure, but that's the only one I can think of.
Might be an effect that doesn't really fit with your deck, an effect you already have too many of, or an effect that's too expensive for your curve. Some blue decks aren't well set up to cast Dig Through Time, for instance, yet played on this card it's completely broken. Also, the Upheaval synergy is probably too good to pass up.
That being said, you generally don't want to be cutting playable spells to exile under this unless you have a major incentive to.
If I'm playing a blink deck that has tools to abuse the ETB trigger I can definitely see myself putting an on color effect on this creature so I have more room to build out the blink engine.
My question is why would you ever stick an on color effect on this? It should really only be a nonblue spell. Brainstorm ponder should never be on this card, timewalk sure, but that's the only one I can think of.
It should basically go on your instant/sorcery that has the most powerful effect at sorcery speed, not considering mana. Frequently that will be your most expensive spell, and frequently nonblue if you picked the Savant early.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
Even if all you get is a one-shot use out of this card, it's basically child's play to make this card Shriekmaw level of value (i.e. it's an auto including any Ux deck). Staple any 2-3 mana instant or sorcery to it and poof.
If you happen to land a 5+ mana instant or sorcery, the card is probably the best creature in your deck. Add any sort of blink, recursion, bounce (Crystal Shard, etc), and we are talking about an archetype defining card.
And, IMO it is being largely underestimated how powerful it is being able to snag some off-color bomb instant/sorcery that your deck has no chance of casting but that you staple to this dude. Arcane Savant is P1P1 level good.
I don't think I want to strap my best on-color spell to this guy. I'd rather play Ancestral Recall in my deck alongside Savant with an off-color effect attached to it than not be able to run both of those cards in my 23.
That being said, an on-color spell that wasn't going to make your final 40 anyways could certainly be on-color and would be the perfect kind of card to strap to this. The only exception may be Time Walk if I'm trying to go infinite with a Crystal Shard or something.
And, IMO it is being largely underestimated how powerful it is being able to snag some off-color bomb instant/sorcery that your deck has no chance of casting but that you staple to this dude. Arcane Savant is P1P1 level good.
I dunno, there are like 5 pages of us being like "holy ***** this card is awesome with such and such spell".
Even if all you get is a one-shot use out of this card, it's basically child's play to make this card Shriekmaw level of value (i.e. it's an auto including any Ux deck). Staple any 2-3 mana instant or sorcery to it and poof.
To be fair a Shriekmaw without evoke would not be an auto include
I'm not sure about that either. I've gotta agree with Metamind here; that's pretty fair for a blue card. Evoke is the main reason why Shriekmaw is good. I wouldn't play a blue Shriekmaw without evoke. I might attach a Go For the Throat to Arcane Savant in desperation times, but if that was the ceiling on the card there's no way I'd cube it.
Y'all are arguing whether Arcane Savant with Terror (not even cubed) stapled on would be in every single blue deck or just most of them. And that is probably very near the floor for this card.
So I think the argument is moot.
Would a 3/3 for 3UU with ETB vindicate be an auto-include? Because I think that is closer to your average case scenario (and that is likely being pessimistic). What percentage of the typical cube is instant/sorcery? Enough for spells matter to be an archetype right? How much of that is 3 mana or more? 10% of the cube maybe. So there are roughly 36 cards in a 360 cube you could pair this with that makes it better than Shriekmaw. And this comes with zero color restriction too. Draft whatever and you still have 36 choices.
Y'all are arguing whether Arcane Savant with Terror (not even cubed) stapled on would be in every single blue deck or just most of them. And that is probably very near the floor for this card.
So I think the argument is moot.
Would a 3/3 for 3UU with ETB vindicate be an auto-include? Because I think that is closer to your average case scenario (and that is likely being pessimistic). What percentage of the typical cube is instant/sorcery? Enough for spells matter to be an archetype right? How much of that is 3 mana or more? 10% of the cube maybe. So there are roughly 36 cards in a 360 cube you could pair this with that makes it better than Shriekmaw. And this comes with zero color restriction too. Draft whatever and you still have 36 choices.
I agree with you, I love savant, but judging by CmC isn't the best metric, eureka costs four, but I probably don't want to run that on this. Meanwhile reanimate might be good, or random other cards that cost 1, mystic tutor, time walk etc.
I definitely would not main deck a 3/3 with etb doom blade for 5 mana in the vast majority of blue decks.
Vindicate I would, but that's only broken if it's combined with blink/recursion... and vindicate is in the top 10% of spells that could be strapped to this.
FWIW in my cube there aren't many targets that make him great, but the ones that do are more than enough to include him.
He's p1p1 worthy for sure, but I can see Pack 3's where I pass him in blue decks for other good blue cards (in my cube).
So does everybody else participating in that discussion. The non-evoke Shriekmaw discussion has nothing to do with Arcane Savant being a great cube card or not. It's entirely a sidebar discussion.
If I put it in my retro cube, Mind's Desire maybe? Or Crush of Wurms (good lord.. lol). I don't know. It's a spell heavy list, so would have a lot of high powered options.
In my midrange cube, I'd never run this card. But if I did, Austere Command would be cool. Or Dig Through Time. Or any of the confluences.
Rules question: Would one be able to pay the extra entwine cost T&N is cast w/ Arcane Savant?
Yes.
You can pay extra costs when casting a spell "without paying its mana cost", so entwine, kicker, and the like are payable (you still need to actually pay it).
But alternate costs can't be paid - you won't get to Overload any spell this way.
Curious about how you'd use Upheaval. No doubt it's a super powerful effect, but is it hugely beneficial slapping the effect on a body (which could never stay in play)? Sort of feels like Shahrazad, the redux. The game that just never ends. Maybe people will just concede to it so they aren't tortured for an hour? LOL.
Seriously though, there are clearly less than ideal cards to put on this. Things like upheavel or wrath effects negate the 3/3 body, so really just make it a sorcery spell you can blink or cast raise dead/reanimate effects on. Still really powerful obviously and likely worth 5 mana, but losing out on a bit of the value aspect this can bring I feel.
Upheaval benefits a lot from the mana reduction, since you're always trying to float mana to rebuild that turn. The really funny part is giving it buyback 0 though.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
I like Time Spiral with it. You get +1 mana and a free 3/3 in addition to drawing up to 7 cards for 0 mana.
Plow Under would also be nuts in a more aggressive minded deck. Or just any deck. Adding pressure to the board while setting your opponent back by two turns? Nuts.
Catastrophe seems also very nice with Savant. A Wrath for 3UU is fine and can save your butt, while the Armageddon option will just win you the game if you aren't behind.
Might be an effect that doesn't really fit with your deck, an effect you already have too many of, or an effect that's too expensive for your curve. Some blue decks aren't well set up to cast Dig Through Time, for instance, yet played on this card it's completely broken. Also, the Upheaval synergy is probably too good to pass up.
That being said, you generally don't want to be cutting playable spells to exile under this unless you have a major incentive to.
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It should basically go on your instant/sorcery that has the most powerful effect at sorcery speed, not considering mana. Frequently that will be your most expensive spell, and frequently nonblue if you picked the Savant early.
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If you happen to land a 5+ mana instant or sorcery, the card is probably the best creature in your deck. Add any sort of blink, recursion, bounce (Crystal Shard, etc), and we are talking about an archetype defining card.
And, IMO it is being largely underestimated how powerful it is being able to snag some off-color bomb instant/sorcery that your deck has no chance of casting but that you staple to this dude. Arcane Savant is P1P1 level good.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
That being said, an on-color spell that wasn't going to make your final 40 anyways could certainly be on-color and would be the perfect kind of card to strap to this. The only exception may be Time Walk if I'm trying to go infinite with a Crystal Shard or something.
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I dunno, there are like 5 pages of us being like "holy ***** this card is awesome with such and such spell".
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
To be fair a Shriekmaw without evoke would not be an auto include
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Y'all are arguing whether Arcane Savant with Terror (not even cubed) stapled on would be in every single blue deck or just most of them. And that is probably very near the floor for this card.
So I think the argument is moot.
Would a 3/3 for 3UU with ETB vindicate be an auto-include? Because I think that is closer to your average case scenario (and that is likely being pessimistic). What percentage of the typical cube is instant/sorcery? Enough for spells matter to be an archetype right? How much of that is 3 mana or more? 10% of the cube maybe. So there are roughly 36 cards in a 360 cube you could pair this with that makes it better than Shriekmaw. And this comes with zero color restriction too. Draft whatever and you still have 36 choices.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I agree with you, I love savant, but judging by CmC isn't the best metric, eureka costs four, but I probably don't want to run that on this. Meanwhile reanimate might be good, or random other cards that cost 1, mystic tutor, time walk etc.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
Vindicate I would, but that's only broken if it's combined with blink/recursion... and vindicate is in the top 10% of spells that could be strapped to this.
FWIW in my cube there aren't many targets that make him great, but the ones that do are more than enough to include him.
He's p1p1 worthy for sure, but I can see Pack 3's where I pass him in blue decks for other good blue cards (in my cube).
Overall card is nuts
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So does everybody else participating in that discussion. The non-evoke Shriekmaw discussion has nothing to do with Arcane Savant being a great cube card or not. It's entirely a sidebar discussion.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
In my midrange cube, I'd never run this card. But if I did, Austere Command would be cool. Or Dig Through Time. Or any of the confluences.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Yes.
You can pay extra costs when casting a spell "without paying its mana cost", so entwine, kicker, and the like are payable (you still need to actually pay it).
But alternate costs can't be paid - you won't get to Overload any spell this way.
Curious about how you'd use Upheaval. No doubt it's a super powerful effect, but is it hugely beneficial slapping the effect on a body (which could never stay in play)? Sort of feels like Shahrazad, the redux. The game that just never ends. Maybe people will just concede to it so they aren't tortured for an hour? LOL.
Seriously though, there are clearly less than ideal cards to put on this. Things like upheavel or wrath effects negate the 3/3 body, so really just make it a sorcery spell you can blink or cast raise dead/reanimate effects on. Still really powerful obviously and likely worth 5 mana, but losing out on a bit of the value aspect this can bring I feel.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
Plow Under would also be nuts in a more aggressive minded deck. Or just any deck. Adding pressure to the board while setting your opponent back by two turns? Nuts.
Catastrophe seems also very nice with Savant. A Wrath for 3UU is fine and can save your butt, while the Armageddon option will just win you the game if you aren't behind.
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http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/