Gonti, Lord of Luxury 2BB
Legendary Creature - Aetherborn Rogue
Deathtouch
When Gonti, Lord of Luxury enters the battlefield, look at the top four cards of target opponent's library, exile one of them face down, then put the rest on the bottom of that library in a random order. For as long as that card remains exiled, you may look at it, you may cast it, and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast it.
2/3
Strangely I could not find an existing thread about this guy. He was revealed during the World Championship along with some other great cards and is perhaps overlooked by some.
I think it is a fine card. In a 'blink' shell, you can strip your opponent's deck from threats and using them against him. Even without abusing the trigger, the effect seem pretty strong. I will try to find room to test this one.
I like it, I was surprised not to see a thread but I guess his stats are the killer paired with the randomness of the effect. Some other form of evasion (skulk could have been cool) or a bigger but might have sold him.
I might give him a shot though since he is interesting and it's a splashy effect, I look forward to snagging a counter or some build-around card.
If Gonti dies do I lose the ability to cast the card? The "for as long as it remains exiled" threw me.
Ye, same goes for when you blink him, reanimate him ect, I think. The card on the battlefield is a new Gonti and has no "connection" to the card that was exiled earlier.
It's true it doesn't have any connection but that doesn't matter. The card says "For as long as that card remains exiled, you may look at it, you may cast it, and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast it." That effect is created by the ETB trigger. It doesn't matter is Gonti is no longer in play by then. So afaik you can still cast the card as long as it remains exiled.
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Ye, same goes for when you blink him, reanimate him ect, I think. The card on the battlefield is a new Gonti and has no "connection" to the card that was exiled earlier.
I double-checked with the ever-helpful judges at chat.magicjudges.org, and they say that you should be able to cast it the card after Gonti is dead. Here's an excerpt of the chat:
<Spike Rogue>After the card is exiled from an opponent's library, if Gonti dies is it still possible to cast the exiled card?
<Brain> yes
<Spike Rogue> Could you explain why?
<Brain> however, we don't know the final rules for KLD yt, so take that with a grain of salt
<Brain> the effect that lets you cast the card is part of the Enters-the-battlefield trigger from Gonti
<Spike Rogue> Fair enough. Could you explain your reasoning?
<Brain> the triggered ability means the whole second paragraph is resolved a single time - when Gonti enters the battlefield
<Brain> what that paragraph does,is it sets up an ongoing effect that modifies where and how you can cast the exiled card
<Brain> note the "for as long as that card remains exiled"
<Brain> this effect is independent of the presence of Gonti on the battlefield, once it is set up
<Brain> the only thing that effect cares about is, that the card is still in exile
This makes the ETB effectively an Impulse from your opponent's deck strapped to a 2/3 deathtouch body. The card you get might not quite synergize with the rest of your deck's strategy, but as long as the opponent doesn't have 4 lands on top of their deck you're getting a cube card you'll be able to cast.
Some other form of evasion (skulk could have been cool) or a bigger but might have sold him.
Having run both Thrill-Kill Assassin and Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim before, I'll say that a 2/3 deathtouch body is pretty darn good. It brick walls weenies, trades up on defense, and on offense it tends to get through almost as well as Skulk or if it doesn't it trades up in the process. The ETB effect A 2/3 deathtouch creature is worth at least 2 mana, and Impulse is definitely worth 2, so I think Gonti is definitely great value at 3B. I'd love to cast this in a RecSur deck, and it also recurs with Reveillark. I wouldn't cut any of my current black 4s for this (Braids, Nekrataal, Skinrender, Kalitas) for this, but if I can find another cut, I just might test this. It's unique, and it may well be powerful enough.
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Not losing the spell is a bump, I might try him out ove a less interesting 4, maybe even thin out my 3 drop section since it's got a bit packed I think.
I just really wish he flew or skulked, skulk on a creature with power<toughness and death touch seems super solid. I actually assumed he flew cause the banisters in the art looked like wings when zoomed out.
Edit: I had a look and I could see giving this a shot over master of the feast, it has been on its way out for a long time but it's been hard since I opened a foil.
I don't think Gonti needs evasion at all. I see him as a control stabilizer where you're casting him to trade off or hold back your opponents attacks without losing a card in the process. Similar to Acidic Slime's body. I think he can be a really fun and powerful card sometimes but may not be consistent enough for stronger, smaller lists.
I had totally ignored this guy, and I think the 4 mana 2/3 deathtouch with Impulse strapped to it is a pretty apt comparison. I feel like you will pretty much always be able to net some sort of value. That said, this card does seem a bit underpowered. You may get a castable card but you have no guarantee it's a card you want. Will you really want to cast a Jackal Pup if you are playing a control deck? Because you are "drawing" a card that an opponent specifically selected for their own deck, it seems likely the average value of that card would be less than if you drew a card from your deck.
So yea, I like the card and I think it's a cool design but as this card is going to be highly variable and doesn't do much to bolster any specific archetype I think it's a pass. Could have used +1/+1 too.
Not a fan of this guy, only control decks would really want him but those decks value consistency over randomness. Cool card, I think this could have easily cost 1BB.
You may get a castable card but you have no guarantee it's a card you want. Will you really want to cast a Jackal Pup if you are playing a control deck? Because you are "drawing" a card that an opponent specifically selected for their own deck, it seems likely the average value of that card would be less than if you drew a card from your deck.
Looking at the top of your opponent's deck and seeing 3 lands and a Jackal Pup is almost as bad as a complete whiff, but that sounds pretty far from the average case scenario. Even the most aggressive decks are full of weenies and burn/removal spells that I think you'd be at least fine with "drawing" with your deathtouch 2/3. Remember, though, that this is cube, so factor in that you might also take your opponent's Sword, Jitte, planeswalker, or Treachery from the top of their deck.
Not a fan of this guy, only control decks would really want him but those decks value consistency over randomness.
You'd probably play this if you just drew a card on ETB, right? Even though it's from your opponent's deck, you get your choice out of 4 cards from your own cube - and there are a lot of versatile cards in cube - and colored mana is not an issue. I think this is still stronger and less random than just drawing a random card in your own deck.
Cool card, I think this could have easily cost 1BB.
That'd be a windmill slam, but drawing a card as an ETB effect on a mono-colored creature has usually been worth about 2 mana in the history of Magic design. Three seems to be about the going rate for a 2/3 with deathtouch, with Ayli as the (shockingly underrated?) exception.
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Also it seems people are disregarding 'Deathtouch' on him. To me he seems great in a controling, defensive deck as an 'Impulse' + blocker that can kill any attacking (non-evasive) creature. He is comparable to something like Graveborn Muse and I think Gonti is the better card of the two mainly because of deathtouch.
I don't think I'd play it even if it straight up drew a card and this is not necessarily better than that. Even paying 4 mana for a Hellrider is not worth it in my control deck let alone lower drops, and I'm definitely not paying for a mana rock/ mass removal in an aggressive deck, especially after playing a subpar body 4 drop. Even hitting a useable spell does not guarantee getting good value for the mana considering the weak body for the cost and the need to pay for the spell.
Which deck would play this over more consistent options?
Comparing the trigger to Impulse is pretty inaccurate, I very often use it to find extra land drops which this cannot do.
What I think it should have done is to pick only spells with CMC 3 or less and be able to cast them for free.
Also it seems people are disregarding 'Deathtouch' on him. To me he seems great in a controling, defensive deck as an 'Impulse' + blocker that can kill any attacking (non-evasive) creature. He is comparable to something like Graveborn Muse and I think Gonti is the better card of the two mainly because of deathtouch.
Deathtouch is the only reason we're discussing this card so I don't think anyone is disregarding it. We all know how good a 2/3 deathtoucher is so it's the consistency issues in the impulse effect that is drawing the discussion. How good is an impulse on your opponents deck? Does it justify the 4 mana cc? More often than not you will probably get something serviceable. Other times you might get a bomb and sometimes you will end up with a subpar card (at least in the context of that game).
I actually think Gonti can be pretty good but I do think he's behind these black 4 drops: Nekerataal, skinrender, Kalitas, Braids, Abyssal Persecutor. If you have space to run him go for it. I'd be curious to hear the feedback.
You may get a castable card but you have no guarantee it's a card you want. Will you really want to cast a Jackal Pup if you are playing a control deck? Because you are "drawing" a card that an opponent specifically selected for their own deck, it seems likely the average value of that card would be less than if you drew a card from your deck.
Looking at the top of your opponent's deck and seeing 3 lands and a Jackal Pup is almost as bad as a complete whiff, but that sounds pretty far from the average case scenario. Even the most aggressive decks are full of weenies and burn/removal spells that I think you'd be at least fine with "drawing" with your deathtouch 2/3. Remember, though, that this is cube, so factor in that you might also take your opponent's Sword, Jitte, planeswalker, or Treachery from the top of their deck.
Not a fan of this guy, only control decks would really want him but those decks value consistency over randomness.
You'd probably play this if you just drew a card on ETB, right? Even though it's from your opponent's deck, you get your choice out of 4 cards from your own cube - and there are a lot of versatile cards in cube - and colored mana is not an issue. I think this is still stronger and less random than just drawing a random card in your own deck.
Cool card, I think this could have easily cost 1BB.
That'd be a windmill slam, but drawing a card as an ETB effect on a mono-colored creature has usually been worth about 2 mana in the history of Magic design. Three seems to be about the going rate for a 2/3 with deathtouch, with Ayli as the (shockingly underrated?) exception.
I'd probably cube this if it was just ETB draw a card. The control deck that wants this wants to draw lands since their curves typically don't stop at 4, and I think EGB draw trigger is a more abusable effect.
Since it's your opponent's library, the effect is nowhere near as good as Impulse would be. Especially since you can't play lands with it. The effect is maybe the equivalent to a Sleight of Hand at best. Probably closer to just a cantrip. Maybe worse than a cantrip even. I think it's a really safe pass. If it had a body I really wanted, than maybe ...but not at a 2/3 desthtouch, and not at 4 mana.
Yeah, I don't like this card very much. The body is probably worth 2 mana at best (there's a 2/3 deathtouch creature for 1B from RTR block), and I feel like it will be hard to get consistent value from the trigger. If you want cards from your black 2BB drop, Graveborn Muse is here to help.
Yeah, I was really surprised this guy didn't have a thread 'til now. It is a big upgrade on Sea Gate Oracle's body, and I suspect a slightly better ETB, for only one more mana. Not as good as Nekrataal, Skinrender, or Braids, but good enough for us to test as an additional 4 drop.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
The body is probably worth 2 mana at best (there's a 2/3 deathtouch creature for 1B from RTR block).
That'd be Thrill-kill Assassin, which isn't quite a 2/3 deathtouch for 1b since it can't block unless you cast it as a 1/2.
If you want cards from your black 2BB drop, Graveborn Muse is here to help.
Graveborn Muse flunks the Terminate test, and even the bolt test, which is not what I want in a 4-drop value creature.
I'm surprised to hear so many people dismissing the ETB effect on this as worse than a cantrip. Even if you can't get a land out of it having any selection of spells, and being able to use any color mana to cast it is something I'd rather have then a random card in any situation where I'm not mana-screwed. I don't expect it to outperform Skinrender, Nekrataal, Kalitas, or Braids, but since the body will usually trade for a creature larger than it or a removal spell, I think there's enough potential value at this cost for it to be worth testing.
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The trigger is more valuable to an aggro deck that would empty its hand fast and could use some more selective card draw. A control deck still needs to still curve past 4 mana, having a fist full of spells I can't cast isn't where I want to be.
Some real hyperbole in this thread. Graveborn Muse may prove to be better, but if so it would at least be close, not miles. And its body is about a full mana better than a simple 2/2.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
Some real hyperbole in this thread. Graveborn Muse may prove to be better, but if so it would at least be close, not miles. And its body is about a full mana better than a simple 2/2.
Not close in my estimation. If I thought it was close, I wouldn't have said it. Expressing a strong opinion about something is not 'hyperbole'; people really need to stop using that word at every opportunity whenever they hear something that they just disagree with (re: over-used/misused terms, see also 'win-more' and 'durdly').
Not knocking anyone who wants to check out Gonti. Card is fine, but not something I'm looking for.
Gonti, Lord of Luxury 2BB
Legendary Creature - Aetherborn Rogue
Deathtouch
When Gonti, Lord of Luxury enters the battlefield, look at the top four cards of target opponent's library, exile one of them face down, then put the rest on the bottom of that library in a random order. For as long as that card remains exiled, you may look at it, you may cast it, and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast it.
2/3
Strangely I could not find an existing thread about this guy. He was revealed during the World Championship along with some other great cards and is perhaps overlooked by some.
I think it is a fine card. In a 'blink' shell, you can strip your opponent's deck from threats and using them against him. Even without abusing the trigger, the effect seem pretty strong. I will try to find room to test this one.
I might give him a shot though since he is interesting and it's a splashy effect, I look forward to snagging a counter or some build-around card.
If Gonti dies do I lose the ability to cast the card? The "for as long as it remains exiled" threw me.
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeI double-checked with the ever-helpful judges at chat.magicjudges.org, and they say that you should be able to cast it the card after Gonti is dead. Here's an excerpt of the chat:
This makes the ETB effectively an Impulse from your opponent's deck strapped to a 2/3 deathtouch body. The card you get might not quite synergize with the rest of your deck's strategy, but as long as the opponent doesn't have 4 lands on top of their deck you're getting a cube card you'll be able to cast.
Having run both Thrill-Kill Assassin and Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim before, I'll say that a 2/3 deathtouch body is pretty darn good. It brick walls weenies, trades up on defense, and on offense it tends to get through almost as well as Skulk or if it doesn't it trades up in the process. The ETB effect A 2/3 deathtouch creature is worth at least 2 mana, and Impulse is definitely worth 2, so I think Gonti is definitely great value at 3B. I'd love to cast this in a RecSur deck, and it also recurs with Reveillark. I wouldn't cut any of my current black 4s for this (Braids, Nekrataal, Skinrender, Kalitas) for this, but if I can find another cut, I just might test this. It's unique, and it may well be powerful enough.
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I just really wish he flew or skulked, skulk on a creature with power<toughness and death touch seems super solid. I actually assumed he flew cause the banisters in the art looked like wings when zoomed out.
Edit: I had a look and I could see giving this a shot over master of the feast, it has been on its way out for a long time but it's been hard since I opened a foil.
He is fairly cheap aswell.
So yea, I like the card and I think it's a cool design but as this card is going to be highly variable and doesn't do much to bolster any specific archetype I think it's a pass. Could have used +1/+1 too.
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Looking at the top of your opponent's deck and seeing 3 lands and a Jackal Pup is almost as bad as a complete whiff, but that sounds pretty far from the average case scenario. Even the most aggressive decks are full of weenies and burn/removal spells that I think you'd be at least fine with "drawing" with your deathtouch 2/3. Remember, though, that this is cube, so factor in that you might also take your opponent's Sword, Jitte, planeswalker, or Treachery from the top of their deck.
You'd probably play this if you just drew a card on ETB, right? Even though it's from your opponent's deck, you get your choice out of 4 cards from your own cube - and there are a lot of versatile cards in cube - and colored mana is not an issue. I think this is still stronger and less random than just drawing a random card in your own deck.
That'd be a windmill slam, but drawing a card as an ETB effect on a mono-colored creature has usually been worth about 2 mana in the history of Magic design. Three seems to be about the going rate for a 2/3 with deathtouch, with Ayli as the (shockingly underrated?) exception.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Which deck would play this over more consistent options?
Comparing the trigger to Impulse is pretty inaccurate, I very often use it to find extra land drops which this cannot do.
What I think it should have done is to pick only spells with CMC 3 or less and be able to cast them for free.
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Deathtouch is the only reason we're discussing this card so I don't think anyone is disregarding it. We all know how good a 2/3 deathtoucher is so it's the consistency issues in the impulse effect that is drawing the discussion. How good is an impulse on your opponents deck? Does it justify the 4 mana cc? More often than not you will probably get something serviceable. Other times you might get a bomb and sometimes you will end up with a subpar card (at least in the context of that game).
I actually think Gonti can be pretty good but I do think he's behind these black 4 drops: Nekerataal, skinrender, Kalitas, Braids, Abyssal Persecutor. If you have space to run him go for it. I'd be curious to hear the feedback.
I'd probably cube this if it was just ETB draw a card. The control deck that wants this wants to draw lands since their curves typically don't stop at 4, and I think EGB draw trigger is a more abusable effect.
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That'd be Thrill-kill Assassin, which isn't quite a 2/3 deathtouch for 1b since it can't block unless you cast it as a 1/2.
Graveborn Muse flunks the Terminate test, and even the bolt test, which is not what I want in a 4-drop value creature.
I'm surprised to hear so many people dismissing the ETB effect on this as worse than a cantrip. Even if you can't get a land out of it having any selection of spells, and being able to use any color mana to cast it is something I'd rather have then a random card in any situation where I'm not mana-screwed. I don't expect it to outperform Skinrender, Nekrataal, Kalitas, or Braids, but since the body will usually trade for a creature larger than it or a removal spell, I think there's enough potential value at this cost for it to be worth testing.
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It does, yet it's still miles better than Gonti.
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Not close in my estimation. If I thought it was close, I wouldn't have said it. Expressing a strong opinion about something is not 'hyperbole'; people really need to stop using that word at every opportunity whenever they hear something that they just disagree with (re: over-used/misused terms, see also 'win-more' and 'durdly').
Not knocking anyone who wants to check out Gonti. Card is fine, but not something I'm looking for.
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"Miles" is hyperbole, a word which I was using to mean "hyperbole" and not "something I disagree with."
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