Haven't finished my full set writeup but this card has definitely surprised me with how great it has been. Should be tested in most Cubes. It easily fits in my 540. The versatility is truly the name of the game with it. I had my doubts & it wasn't even on my initial testing list but I'm glad I gave it a shot (and you should too!)
Ballista has some great synergies in standard--primarily with Winding Constrictor--that aren't present or easily attainable in many cubes. Verdurous Gearhulk and to a lesser extent Rishkar, Peema Renegade do appear in many cubes so there is that if we are trying to translate standard performance to cube, but ultimately my testing fleshed out that the costs are too intensive despite the flexibility. Too many times where 4 for the activation was just too large of a burden. Also of note here, the presence of multiple copies of these cards helps ensure the likelihood of synergies in standard that are harder to achieve in cube.
To answer your questions directly @JinxedIdol. I would say no, no (360), and testable (450).
It's also dominating in Vintage right now; often with no +1/+1 counter synergies. It's just a good card.
But that's not the case here. There are a lot of cards in the cube that can make Ballista better than it is at face value anyways. Not needed to make it good, but it's fun when they show up.
It's also dominating in Vintage right now; often with no +1/+1 counter synergies. It's just a good card.
But that's not the case here. There are a lot of cards in the cube that can make Ballista better than it is at face value anyways. Not needed to make it good, but it's fun when they show up.
Uh 99+% of the time in Vintage it's in a deck next to 4x Arcbound Ravager, so there's definite +1/+1 synergies. Also, you know, you cast it off Mishra's Workshop. Not fully "face value" like, say, JTMS.
There are quite a few vintage decks running it without either of those cards. It's run in white Eldrazi, for example, that has neither Ravagers or 'Shops. In fact, the only version of White Eldrazi that finished in the T16 in the most recent P9 challenge had 4x Walking Ballista, and no Ravagers and no Workshops:
Even if it wasn't, was the point that it doesn't have any synergy in cubes? Because it has plenty of ways to take advantage of it in this format. It's not defined entirely by its context in any of the formats it's doing well in, cube included.
There are quite a few vintage decks running it without either of those cards. It's run in white Eldrazi, for example, that has neither Ravagers or 'Shops. In fact, the only version of White Eldrazi that finished in the T16 in the most recent P9 challenge had 4x Walking Ballista, and no Ravagers and no Workshops:
Even if it wasn't, was the point that it doesn't have any synergy in cubes? Because it has plenty of ways to take advantage of it in this format. It's not defined entirely by its context in any of the formats it's doing well in, cube included.
With 4x ancient tomb, 9 fast mana sources and access to a ton of mana production (1/2 the deck makes mana) this deck seems well suited to utilize a powerful colourless X spell.
It's an extreme version of the type of cube deck that takes advantage of the ballista... with cube having some tolarian academy/gaes cradle decks that have a greater mana generation ceiling than this vintage one.
Chiming in to agree there's plenty of ways cube (more so powered) takes advantage of ballista. More in the excess mana department and less in the +1/+1 counter synergy department.
Ballista is a pretty great card in vintage due to the Young Pyromancers, Delvers, Phyrexian Revokers, random lotus cobras & snapcaster mages, sometimes Porcelain Legionaires, lots of randoms X/1s that can be knocked off T1 by ballista and it's not unreasonable for x=2 in that deck. It also dodges random thorn of amethysts and chalices on 1 and (sometimes) 2.
This card has been great after a couple of weeks of testing: it has completely matched the expectations.
For 2 mana it removes many utility creatures in the cube: aggro 1 drops, mana dorks, cryptologist, mother of runes... It might blank an entire turn of an aggressive attack (1 block + 1 kill).
From 4 to 6 mana it's very flexible: a 1/1 with 4 mana open, a 2/2 with 2 mana open, a 3/3 or something in the mix.
It's an excellent topdeck and very late game mana sink.
Yesterday evening this card was one of the best spells in my deck. It was scary and effective when recurred with Volrath's Stronghold and 6 mana on topdeck mode.
In the end: so good.
How has been Walking Ballista for you so far?
I'll echo your sentiments. Great card has been great for us too.
Currently not running Triskelion, and I would def prefer Trisk over this as the blink/recursion is/was the main draw.
Made my way back here due to a convo on discord...it's good to go back and figure out why you were so wrong, you know? I couldn't see the whole picture of what this card provided and wrote it off. Really dumb! Thankfully I'm allowed to change cube slots at will lol
Currently not running Triskelion, and I would def prefer Trisk over this as the blink/recursion is/was the main draw.
Made my way back here due to a convo on discord...it's good to go back and figure out why you were so wrong, you know? I couldn't see the whole picture of what this card provided and wrote it off. Really dumb! Thankfully I'm allowed to change cube slots at will lol
lol. Yeah, scales with your curve, activated ability is a good mana-sink, beats down, removes creatures, goes to the dome, searchable with recruiters...such a good card.
Are people still high on this? I was never super big into it in 2018, but I didnt hate it then. 6 years later it feels a lot slower, especially as it feels like 4 cmc spells need to run away with the game these days, and I never draft it anymore. Does anyone else feel the same way or should I rethink it.
Are people still high on this? I was never super big into it in 2018, but I didnt hate it then. 6 years later it feels a lot slower, especially as it feels like 4 cmc spells need to run away with the game these days, and I never draft it anymore. Does anyone else feel the same way or should I rethink it.
Power creep hasn't been kind to this / Hangarback Walker unless you have some very specific combos for it. I keep it around to help support Mishra's Workshop, but Ballista would be close to the chopping block without it. This has never been a high pick for my playgroup, it's always just been a decent mana sink / filler card that helps bolster artifact shells.
It’s dropped in rankings in generic good stuff decks (it often misses the main deck unless there’s sufficient ramp), but it’s still a powerhouse in decks with the broken mana generators (academy, cradle, workshop , big ramp, zirda/monolith).
not close to the chopping block for me. Hangarback walker isn’t close to the power level of ballista imo and is on my chopping block.
Artifact ramp still loves this card and add in return to hand shenanigans like crystal shard this thing is a non stop machine gun.
This card gets seen a lot in ramp decks especially, but even some agro lists use him as a nice mid drop to attack and clear the board for go to the head for the last bits of damage.
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Do they both belong in 360/450 lists?
Thanks
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To answer your questions directly @JinxedIdol. I would say no, no (360), and testable (450).
Thanks, man. Better acquire a Hangarback then.
It's also dominating in Vintage right now; often with no +1/+1 counter synergies. It's just a good card.
But that's not the case here. There are a lot of cards in the cube that can make Ballista better than it is at face value anyways. Not needed to make it good, but it's fun when they show up.
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Uh 99+% of the time in Vintage it's in a deck next to 4x Arcbound Ravager, so there's definite +1/+1 synergies. Also, you know, you cast it off Mishra's Workshop. Not fully "face value" like, say, JTMS.
Still great in Cube, though.
Even if it wasn't, was the point that it doesn't have any synergy in cubes? Because it has plenty of ways to take advantage of it in this format. It's not defined entirely by its context in any of the formats it's doing well in, cube included.
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With 4x ancient tomb, 9 fast mana sources and access to a ton of mana production (1/2 the deck makes mana) this deck seems well suited to utilize a powerful colourless X spell.
It's an extreme version of the type of cube deck that takes advantage of the ballista... with cube having some tolarian academy/gaes cradle decks that have a greater mana generation ceiling than this vintage one.
Chiming in to agree there's plenty of ways cube (more so powered) takes advantage of ballista. More in the excess mana department and less in the +1/+1 counter synergy department.
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But yeah, +1/+1 counter / artifact synergy is hardly a thing in my cube and this is still a solid performer. Having mana / recruiters is all it needs.
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I'll echo your sentiments. Great card has been great for us too.
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(Spoiler: People really like it. A flexible artifact creature that can remove opposing utility creatures or make combat a nightmare.)
Made my way back here due to a convo on discord...it's good to go back and figure out why you were so wrong, you know? I couldn't see the whole picture of what this card provided and wrote it off. Really dumb! Thankfully I'm allowed to change cube slots at will lol
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lol. Yeah, scales with your curve, activated ability is a good mana-sink, beats down, removes creatures, goes to the dome, searchable with recruiters...such a good card.
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Power creep hasn't been kind to this / Hangarback Walker unless you have some very specific combos for it. I keep it around to help support Mishra's Workshop, but Ballista would be close to the chopping block without it. This has never been a high pick for my playgroup, it's always just been a decent mana sink / filler card that helps bolster artifact shells.
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not close to the chopping block for me. Hangarback walker isn’t close to the power level of ballista imo and is on my chopping block.
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This card gets seen a lot in ramp decks especially, but even some agro lists use him as a nice mid drop to attack and clear the board for go to the head for the last bits of damage.
Still an AllStar!
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