I liken it to someone giving me a nice van for free. Like, you're not going to go brag to your pals about your new van, no one gets excited about vans like there's no showroom with a two-door white van in it, but you're going to end up using the **** out of it and it'll feel useful and good to have, and there's a good chance you'll use it for a long time unless another van comes along.
I liken it to someone giving me a nice van for free. Like, you're not going to go brag to your pals about your new van, no one gets excited about vans like there's no showroom with a two-door white van in it, but you're going to end up using the **** out of it and it'll feel useful and good to have, and there's a good chance you'll use it for a long time unless another van comes along.
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
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Also been testing it for a while, and it's been about as good as I expected.
Fills a niche roll in smashing reactive, counterspell heavy decks and serviceable everywhere else.
Not sure how long it'll last in my cube, but def a good card.
Looking at my cube, I think I'm going to test this over Polukranos. I really don't want to cut Regal Behemoth since Wake effects are hard to comeby. I don't want to cut any other super fatties either or any of the 1-3 cmc Natural Order fodder. I like my 5-drops, so that basically leaves the 4-cmc creatures and I can live without Polly-K. I want green to have another trump to Control Magic effects, especially with Fractured Identity running around now. This also helps break through planeswalkers and their defense, especially with the new XLN rules coming up.
Looking at my cube, I think I'm going to test this over Polukranos. I really don't want to cut Regal Behemoth since Wake effects are hard to comeby. I don't want to cut any other super fatties either or any of the 1-3 cmc Natural Order fodder. I like my 5-drops, so that basically leaves the 4-cmc creatures and I can live without Polly-K. I want green to have another trump to Control Magic effects, especially with Fractured Identity running around now. This also helps break through planeswalkers and their defense, especially with the new XLN rules coming up.
I haven't got any creature cuts I want to make, because, as you say, the 5 drops are all great, the super fatties are all necessary, and the Wake effect is too fun. But I also like Polukranos as a Wildfire finisher and for its removal.
Looking at my green section, I see Song of the Dryads and Oath of Nissa not getting drafted much. Maybe I'll cut one of those? I'm at 39/60 creatures/green so going up a creature is fine.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
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Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Despite all the 5s being great, I feel like I'm loaded at 5 and super light at 6. I'll probably make a swap in that CMC range just for curve considerations.
Despite all the 5s being great, I feel like I'm loaded at 5 and super light at 6. I'll probably make a swap in that CMC range just for curve considerations.
I agree with this. Kalonian Hydra and Verdurous Gearhulk are the cards I'm personally targeting for the Tyrant's spot.
I'm trying to figure out if I want three green 6-drops in my 450 card cube or if I'm OK with two. I could cut Regal Behemoth for this or go with three six drops and cut a 5cc card (probably Kalonian Hydra).
From your list I would cut Nissa Vastwood Seer or Wickerbough Elder. You don't need to cut any 5 drops as green supports the higher end of the curve well and being a modern cube you're already short a popular 5 drop (Deranged Hermit).
I actually thought the closest comparison should be made with Gaea's Revenge. Although GR is 7 mana, it has haste so it would attack on the same turn as CT when cast on-curve. The keywords are quite similar too. GR is also uncounterable and not being targettable by nongreen stuff basically is hexproof against removal, barring borderline cases like Song of the Dryads and Beast Within.
The only thing GR doesn't have is trample, which if you think about it would lead to more interesting games. With trample, it makes boardstates less interesting because your chump-blocks have less value since they won't prevent much damage, so there's little consideration to be made when deciding to attack with CT, and also deciding whether to block it. Without trample, at least the defending player has a fighting chance by finding ways to generate blockers. Sure, when it comes to big buffy creatures like these it's important to have that inevitability of it killing your opponent swiftly in a few hits, but green beefy dorks don't necessarily need that since they're not normally used as control finishers that need to end the game quickly after resolving; their purpose is to be large threats that come out several turns early. Just my 2 cents on why Gaea's Revenge would be more favoured over Carnage Tyrant.
Costing 1 less mana is almost as big a deal as missing the 6th point of toughness, which is almost as big a deal as missing trample. All three of those things are really important. A comparison can be drawn, but Carnage Tyrant and Gaea's Revenge aren't even close in terms of powerlevel.
Gaea's Revenge really needed trample. It's also a in a very awkward part of the curve: for 1 less mana, you get Carnage Tyrant. For one more G, you get Craterhoof Behemoth.
Yeekh. I have zero interest in this. It's just a giant dude that wins the game by accident. Nothing here screams "fun games of Magic".
This x1000. Hate protection/hexproof and can't be countered cards, and this one has it all in one overly powerful package. I prefer to play Magic, not let one person play while the other helplessly/frustratingly watches. Will happily pass on this guy!
I think that’s a fairly common argument, which is fair if that’s what your group likes... But what else are you banning for unfun reasons or lack of interactivity? Because there are a LOT of options if this is the criteria.
Devil’s advocate - without a card like Carnage Tyrant the green midrange or ramp player might stare at the blue opponent’s full grip and untapped mana and think “wow, this isn’t fun at all.”
I like having fatties that dodge counters and spot removal. Wraths and Edicts still kill this thing.
Agreed. I think cards like Tyrant open more doors for green midrange decks than they do close doors for the rest of the field. If your goal is to create less feel bad moments, cards like Tyrant allow players playing midrange creature decks to not be helpless against blue control, which is a big net positive.
Just chiming in to agree with Patrunkenphat and wtwlf. You need good threats for midrange and ramp decks, especially against control.
Cheers,
rant
That's fine to an extent I think, but a card that has zero interaction just seems unfun (and plays unfun for us at least). Shroud (and even worse, Hexproof) just reduces interaction in a game that is all about it. I agree that colors like green seem to be at the will of control decks at times and it is equally frustrating. I wish there was some middle ground, like fading counters on Hexproof ability, sort of a spawn protection for 1 or 2 turns.
Thoughts on that idea? Should I patent it before Wizards prints it in the next set?
There's plenty of ways to interact with Carnage Tyrant. You can put 6 power worth of Blockers on the field, you can race the green deck before the Dino comes down, you can play a sweeper, you can go bigger than Carnage Tyrant. However, it depends on your cube if Carnage Tyrant fits for you. My cube has plenty of "zero interaction" strategies -- Sneak Attack an Emrakul, aggro decks that can goldfish on turn 4, various other infinite combos. Now, those aren't actually zero interaction because I make sure to include enough ways to combat each of those strategies, or I try to at least. I feel like Carnage Tyrant is the same way; it is up to you as the cube designer to include ways to combat the Carnage Tyrant, and if those tools do not fit well within your cube, than Carnage Tyrant is not right for your cube.
I like Carnage Tyrant as a cube card, though. If I were looking for a second Green 6-drop, I'd include it in my cube.
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Fills a niche roll in smashing reactive, counterspell heavy decks and serviceable everywhere else.
Not sure how long it'll last in my cube, but def a good card.
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I haven't got any creature cuts I want to make, because, as you say, the 5 drops are all great, the super fatties are all necessary, and the Wake effect is too fun. But I also like Polukranos as a Wildfire finisher and for its removal.
Looking at my green section, I see Song of the Dryads and Oath of Nissa not getting drafted much. Maybe I'll cut one of those? I'm at 39/60 creatures/green so going up a creature is fine.
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I agree with this. Kalonian Hydra and Verdurous Gearhulk are the cards I'm personally targeting for the Tyrant's spot.
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Cheers,
rant
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The only thing GR doesn't have is trample, which if you think about it would lead to more interesting games. With trample, it makes boardstates less interesting because your chump-blocks have less value since they won't prevent much damage, so there's little consideration to be made when deciding to attack with CT, and also deciding whether to block it. Without trample, at least the defending player has a fighting chance by finding ways to generate blockers. Sure, when it comes to big buffy creatures like these it's important to have that inevitability of it killing your opponent swiftly in a few hits, but green beefy dorks don't necessarily need that since they're not normally used as control finishers that need to end the game quickly after resolving; their purpose is to be large threats that come out several turns early. Just my 2 cents on why Gaea's Revenge would be more favoured over Carnage Tyrant.
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This x1000. Hate protection/hexproof and can't be countered cards, and this one has it all in one overly powerful package. I prefer to play Magic, not let one person play while the other helplessly/frustratingly watches. Will happily pass on this guy!
Devil’s advocate - without a card like Carnage Tyrant the green midrange or ramp player might stare at the blue opponent’s full grip and untapped mana and think “wow, this isn’t fun at all.”
I like having fatties that dodge counters and spot removal. Wraths and Edicts still kill this thing.
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rant
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That's fine to an extent I think, but a card that has zero interaction just seems unfun (and plays unfun for us at least). Shroud (and even worse, Hexproof) just reduces interaction in a game that is all about it. I agree that colors like green seem to be at the will of control decks at times and it is equally frustrating. I wish there was some middle ground, like fading counters on Hexproof ability, sort of a spawn protection for 1 or 2 turns.
Thoughts on that idea? Should I patent it before Wizards prints it in the next set?
I like Carnage Tyrant as a cube card, though. If I were looking for a second Green 6-drop, I'd include it in my cube.
[180 classic cube]