I feel this is a bit underpowered for a 6 mana planeswalker. New Ugin feels like a slightly stronger version of the classic Jace / Ob Nixilis / Teferi 5-cmc mold we're used to, but is more expensive. Elspeth / Chandra / Will are all great examples of what a 6-cmc walker should look like, and Ugin is nowhere close to that bar.
6 mana feels like a lot to me. The static cost reduction ability seems narrow, and while the {+} ability is solid, the {-3} leaves him pretty low on loyalty for a 6-mana investment. My initial opinion is good but not great.
OH man, this guy just can't be bad. That first ability is like a Wurmcoil on repeatable steroids against anything other than a super large creature with trample. You get an occasional (HOW good would even 4 in deck slots be) cost cheat. IF on specifically defense. Which is implied kind of, at least. You're either ramp or defense at a 6. And design slots could handle a defense slot. And then you get to have him sit at decent loyalty and nuke things. I would guess yes, and even for a multi-year pedigree.
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"Warning: Um, warning. This is going to be a game state violation. And a taking extra turns and drawing extra cards violation, pretty much, a whole bunch of violations. Look at me, I'm the DCI."
Getting a 2/2 and a (delayed) card on the [+1] is a pretty big deal, I think, and the removal at [-3] is probably better than Ob Nix or Teferi's. The passive curves nicely into old Ugin and other curve-toppers. The low loyalty if you have to start with removal does hurt the card. Overall the card seems pretty good.
My gut says the card is too fair of a card compared to other similar cards in cube. There is only so many spots I am willing to play colorless planeswalkers in, and I like OG Ugin, and the Karn's more than this. I would like to test this still though to see how well the +1 2/2 token drawing plays out. Maybe that will perform better than I think it will.
I guess if you want a 3rd big colorless PW, this is your guy, but the ramp is pretty narrow and being on a six drop feels very meh to me. So it's really all about the other 2 abilities, and the removal leaves him very vulnerable and can randomly miss some threats, and the 2/2 draw a card when it dies feels very good but 6 mana is a lot. I like new Lili at 6 more than this guy.
Edit - that +1 is gonna create some annoying memory issues since you have to track which card is tied to which spirit. I guess you just use the face-down card as the token. Also, since it sounds like you can only look at each card once, and then you're gonna have to remember which card is better and which token you want to block with.
that +1 is gonna create some annoying memory issues since you have to track which card is tied to which spirit. I guess you just use the face-down card as the token. Also, since it sounds like you can only look at each card once, and then you're gonna have to remember which card is better and which token you want to block with.
Just put the card under the token it's attached to. I think the little memory game is actually one of my favorite things about the card. I like that it supports mono-brown, but I'm not going to play this unless I happen to open it.
All the walkers that + to make tokens are good, Ugin’s other upsides seem good, and colorless is a big advantage. This is exactly the kind of generic value midrange card I don’t like, but I struggle to see a good reason to run Big Elspeth/Vraska/Liliana before running Little Ugin.
All the walkers that + to make tokens are good, Ugin’s other upsides seem good, and colorless is a big advantage. This is exactly the kind of generic value midrange card I don’t like, but I struggle to see a good reason to run Big Elspeth/Vraska/Liliana before running Little Ugin.
Simply making a 2/2 isn't enough for a 6 mana planeswalker, IMO. These are stats that I'd expect from a 5-cmc walker like Liliana, Death's Majesty. I think new Ugin is around big Vraska / Liliana level. I consider those all average compared to the stronger 6-cmc walkers like Elspeth / Chandra / Will Kenrith.
Simply making a 2/2 isn't enough for a 6 mana planeswalker, IMO. These are stats that I'd expect from a 5-cmc walker like Liliana, Death's Majesty. I think new Ugin is around big Vraska / Liliana level. I consider those all average compared to the stronger 6-cmc walkers like Elspeth / Chandra / Will Kenrith.
I think you’re right in cubes that push aggro and dumb combo decks, but in cubes running Thragtusks and History of Benalias, Big Vraska is apparently pretty good. This looks outright better on the back-foot, which is where I think a 6-drop has to be measured.
Simply making a 2/2 isn't enough for a 6 mana planeswalker, IMO. These are stats that I'd expect from a 5-cmc walker like Liliana, Death's Majesty. I think new Ugin is around big Vraska / Liliana level. I consider those all average compared to the stronger 6-cmc walkers like Elspeth / Chandra / Will Kenrith.
I think you’re right in cubes that push aggro and dumb combo decks, but in cubes running Thragtusks and History of Benalias, Big Vraska is apparently pretty good. This looks outright better on the back-foot, which is where I think a 6-drop has to be measured.
I think lil Ugin is worse than Vraska on the backfoot. The - leaves him much more vulnerable than vraska's -, the tokens he creates are slightly better on defense (since they draw a card), but his loyalty is significantly lower.
The big advantage he has over Vraska is he costs 6 as opposed to 4BG, I'd probably be cubing Vraska if she was colorless.
that +1 is gonna create some annoying memory issues since you have to track which card is tied to which spirit. I guess you just use the face-down card as the token. Also, since it sounds like you can only look at each card once, and then you're gonna have to remember which card is better and which token you want to block with.
Just put the card under the token it's attached to. I think the little memory game is actually one of my favorite things about the card. I like that it supports mono-brown, but I'm not going to play this unless I happen to open it.
My main point is if you exile 3 cards, you need to be very careful keeping your tokens in order to make sure you know which is which.
I guess if you want a 3rd big colorless PW, this is your guy, but the ramp is pretty narrow and being on a six drop feels very meh to me. So it's really all about the other 2 abilities, and the removal leaves him very vulnerable and can randomly miss some threats, and the 2/2 draw a card when it dies feels very good but 6 mana is a lot. I like new Lili at 6 more than this guy.
Edit - that +1 is gonna create some annoying memory issues since you have to track which card is tied to which spirit. I guess you just use the face-down card as the token. Also, since it sounds like you can only look at each card once, and then you're gonna have to remember which card is better and which token you want to block with.
I believe that once you've looked at a face down card, you have permission to keep looking at it as part of the game rules.
I think this might be a sleeper card. This card is an inclusion for any control deck that wants to rebuild their resources after using all their resources to combat an aggro deck, and also is good at out-grinding midrange decks. The fact that it's colorless can't be easily dismissed, sure it's a more fair card than others, but it's still great at slowly rebuilding your resources after exhausting them. It wouldn't surprise me if this slowly seeps into people's lists over the next couple of months. I'll definitely be testing it myself once I can get my hands on it.
Seen this in play in draft today; sealed isn't the best analogy, but that 2/2 that draws a card as a +1 is really great. Maybe it over performed but every time it hit the board just couldn't overcome it. The colorless reduction never came into play.
If you need a budget big mana walker this could be a very real option.
Been super intrigued with trying this card after it’s incredible performance in standard and it’s only $5. I don’t like 7cmc karn as it costs too much mana to cast outside of dedicated ramp decks, but 6cmc is that sweet spot where both control and ramp can capitalize on the value. Definitely am going to try this guy out, maybe instead of Sensei’s Top?
Been super intrigued with trying this card after it’s incredible performance in standard and it’s only $5. I don’t like 7cmc karn as it costs too much mana to cast outside of dedicated ramp decks, but 6cmc is that sweet spot where both control and ramp can capitalize on the value. Definitely am going to try this guy out, maybe instead of Sensei’s Top?
Personally I like Karn / Top way more than new Ugin.
Yep, I played it in a UW Control shell. Card was great, dealt with problematic permanents while also generating 2/2s each turn was very valuable. Once I traded away one of the 2/2s, got the facedown card back, and Venser-bounced another spell coming down. I love the versatility of the card, and it's a great finisher to have on 6.
Yep, I played it in a UW Control shell. Card was great, dealt with problematic permanents while also generating 2/2s each turn was very valuable. Once I traded away one of the 2/2s, got the facedown card back, and Venser-bounced another spell coming down. I love the versatility of the card, and it's a great finisher to have on 6.
very helpful, thanks!!
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What do you guys think?
Colourless reduction is interesting in powered cubes where you can power into it and potentially still have resources to deploy.
But if it weren’t for that, seems like a slightly watered down version of the other premium 6 drops.
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Edit - that +1 is gonna create some annoying memory issues since you have to track which card is tied to which spirit. I guess you just use the face-down card as the token. Also, since it sounds like you can only look at each card once, and then you're gonna have to remember which card is better and which token you want to block with.
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Just put the card under the token it's attached to. I think the little memory game is actually one of my favorite things about the card. I like that it supports mono-brown, but I'm not going to play this unless I happen to open it.
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Simply making a 2/2 isn't enough for a 6 mana planeswalker, IMO. These are stats that I'd expect from a 5-cmc walker like Liliana, Death's Majesty. I think new Ugin is around big Vraska / Liliana level. I consider those all average compared to the stronger 6-cmc walkers like Elspeth / Chandra / Will Kenrith.
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I think you’re right in cubes that push aggro and dumb combo decks, but in cubes running Thragtusks and History of Benalias, Big Vraska is apparently pretty good. This looks outright better on the back-foot, which is where I think a 6-drop has to be measured.
I think lil Ugin is worse than Vraska on the backfoot. The - leaves him much more vulnerable than vraska's -, the tokens he creates are slightly better on defense (since they draw a card), but his loyalty is significantly lower.
The big advantage he has over Vraska is he costs 6 as opposed to 4BG, I'd probably be cubing Vraska if she was colorless.
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My main point is if you exile 3 cards, you need to be very careful keeping your tokens in order to make sure you know which is which.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
If you need a budget big mana walker this could be a very real option.
Personally I like Karn / Top way more than new Ugin.
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