The Fast Life - The top 7 colorless cards are all colorless extremely efficient fast mana producers.
Jitte Jumped! - Umezawa's Jitte (#9) fell from the #4 colorless card in 2016 (surpassing even some fast mana cards) to being jumped by Skullclamp (#8).
Newcomers - Karn, Scion of Urza (#13), Time Vault(#14), Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger(#16-T), Smuggler's Copter(#17), Worn Powerstone (#18). Basically the top tier of colorless cards remains mostly untouched, but the rest of the top 20 got a big shakeup. The new entries are a mix of new cards and preexisting cards with the latter being cards that may have benefited from the new voting criteria. Time Vault is particularly interesting as the few who ranked it, ranked it very high, but only four people included it so it ended up at 14th -- probably a bit too low for an artifact costing 2 that can be manipulated to get endless turns, but that's just my take.
So Long, Farewell - Batterskull the former #12 in 2016 just missed the top 20 at #21 this year. Sword of Body and Mind fell from #13 in 2016 to #24 this year. Tangle Wire fell from #15 in 2016 to #31 this year! Karn Liberated fell from #17 in 2016 to #23 this year.
Voting for LANDS begins tomorrow and after those results, that's a wrap! (For real this time!) Thanks again to everyone for taking part.
Forgot to vote this week, but goddamn is winter orb criminally underrated by you guys. Card is leagues better than geddon and goes into more decks, how did it only land #19/20? Should’ve clocked in above Grim Monolith to steal the #7 spot but below Mox Diamond imo. Card is incredibly broken in any cube.
I agree that Winter Orb is better than where it ended up, at least IMO. Better than Grim Monolith though? I don't believe it is quite as good as fast mana variants. I'd probably put it after Coalition Relic and before Karn though (Checks my actual vote...) Ha! I put it at exactly 13th.
Sad to see the fall of Tangle Wire. I think that card is still crazy. Agree that Winter Orb should be higher, but I'd never rank it above Monolith. I voted it as #13 between Smokestack and Karn, Scion of Urza.
I think Winer orb is certainly better than monolith. Winter orb is quite literally a 2mana armageddon that can also be abused with opposition/mana rocks/dorks. versatile, all-star card in both aggro, midrange and ramp, meanwhile monolith is great in control, ramp and only some midrange decks. Orb goes in more decks, is a better topdeck, and from personal experience ussually has a higher game impact when used. Can’t imagine it anywhere outside a top 10 for colorless.
A 2 mana Armageddon? I think you may be overselling it a bit. Winter Orb lockdown is one of my favorite strategies but I think colorless ramp -- especially the kind that produces more mana then it costs to cast actually goes in many more decks than Winter Orb which works well with many archetypes but cant just be dropped into any deck. I don't think there's a large power gap between the two cards, but I definitely think the results accurately reflect the power of early colorless mana acceleration.
Edit: Just want to add though that IMO, Smokestack is criminally overrated here. I don't run it at all, let alone consider it a top 20 card. Never have I thought "if only Braids, Cabal Minion was slower and couldn't attack....". I get that it is colorless so perhaps the same cubes running fast mana are getting more value from this card by getting it out much faster, I just can't justify it in my list.
I don't think I'm overselling the Orb at all, it is a colorless Armageddon for half the cost that can also abused with any tap effects. And no, monolith does not go into more decks than orb. Any ramp deck will gladly play either, control will play Monolith while Aggro plays Orb (I should also note that we typically get more aggro decks per draft than control decks in 8-man, as there are more aggro cards spread across more colors), meanwhile all midrange decks can and will want to play Orb but plenty of midrange decks aren't looking to play Monolith since their curve is too low. Both are broken and always end up getting snatched early for a variety of decks, but Orb undoubtedly sees play in more decks. In terms of raw power, I think both are actually pretty similar as they completely alter the pace of (and in turn win) the game, which overall puts Orb a rung above the Monolith. That's my take on the subject, and even if you think Monolith is better than Orb, I can't imagine the 3 consecutive equipments after it are justified above Winter Orb. They're strong but aren't nearly as versatile, and the only one of them that I think even belongs in the same discussion is Skullclamp since it can still excel in red aggro unlike the Sword and Jitte.
I hope that didn't sound angry either, because I promise I'm only arguing out of good faith to change some opinions, but my family members always tell me I sound passive-aggressive over text and I don't want to give that impression to anybody haha
Edit: and yea, we cut smokestack long ago. the card is super cool in theory but it kinda sucks, at least in fast formats.
Winter Orb requires building around, which is not easy to do. The card is bad against mana rocks, mana elves and decks that are have a better board position than you. The card's strength also depends how well your opponent's deck can cope in a low economy game, and how can yours. In a card with this many conditions, it makes sense there will be varying play experiences. I didn't include it in the top 20 for low inclusion rates, frequent incorrect play (which costs games) and low subjective cube importance. I don't like how the card slows down games sometimes. Armageddon is final, Orb leaves hope of recovery so people don't really concede to it.
Winter Orb requires building around, which is not easy to do. The card is bad against mana rocks, mana elves and decks that are have a better board position than you. The card's strength also depends how well your opponent's deck can cope in a low economy game, and how can yours. In a card with this many conditions, it makes sense there will be varying play experiences. I didn't include it in the top 20 for low inclusion rates, frequent incorrect play (which costs games) and low subjective cube importance. I don't like how the card slows down games sometimes. Armageddon is final, Orb leaves hope of recovery so people don't really concede to it.
Winter Orb is one of the single easiest build around card in cube, I don't know what you're talking about. The card is bad vs non-land mana acceleration and aggro decks in the the same way that it's good in decks with them. That's like saying Moat is bad because it makes your Soldier of the Pantheon unable to attack while letting your opponent's Celestial Colonnade fly over: that's literally the entire point of the card, if it didn't accomplish that it would be worthless. Just make sure your deck has creatures that can attack early or mana acceleration and you're golden. I understand differing opinions and why the gameplay Orb creates might be boring, but the first reason you provided doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and if it did Armageddon, Wildfire, Balance and wrath of god would also be bad cards, which we know conclusively is not the case. Winter Orb is just as easy to build around as Grim Monolith, and is just as difficult to make work, which is not difficult at all.
Winter Orb requires building around, which is not easy to do. The card is bad against mana rocks, mana elves and decks that are have a better board position than you. The card's strength also depends how well your opponent's deck can cope in a low economy game, and how can yours. In a card with this many conditions, it makes sense there will be varying play experiences. I didn't include it in the top 20 for low inclusion rates, frequent incorrect play (which costs games) and low subjective cube importance. I don't like how the card slows down games sometimes. Armageddon is final, Orb leaves hope of recovery so people don't really concede to it.
Winter Orb is one of the single easiest build around card in cube, I don't know what you're talking about. The card is bad vs non-land mana acceleration and aggro decks in the the same way that it's good in decks with them. That's like saying Moat is bad because it makes your Soldier of the Pantheon unable to attack while letting your opponent's Celestial Colonnade fly over: that's literally the entire point of the card, if it didn't accomplish that it would be worthless. Just make sure your deck has creatures that can attack early or mana acceleration and you're golden. I understand differing opinions and why the gameplay Orb creates might be boring, but the first reason you provided doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and if it did Armageddon, Wildfire, Balance and wrath of god would also be bad cards, which we know conclusively is not the case. Winter Orb is just as easy to build around as Grim Monolith, and is just as difficult to make work, which is not difficult at all.
Not saying it is a bad card, just not a top 20 card. It isn't as strong as any of the buildaround cards you've mentioned. Balance and *** are good when you are behind, which is a completely different place to be. I think Armageddon is overrated too.
Think both chrome mox and winter orb are very high variance cards that excel in different cubes and decks, so it's not a surprise to see a variety of opinions on them.
The card disadvantage quality to chrome mox is a severe cost and heavily underappreciated. I believe people to try to jam both mox diamond and chrome mox in way too many decks they don't belong. I can't count the number of discussions I've had with people to cut chrome mox from their deck or not play mox diamond in their 2 color deck that doesn't leverage the explosiveness.
Artifact decks want a mox effect the most, but chrome mox not being able to pitch artifacts is a huge downside for that deck.
I think I have the lowest opinion of chrome mox out of any good player I know that I've discussed the card with.
However, there are some decks where exploding into a snowball effect like a 3 mana planeswalker or a dark confidant is definitely worth the card disadvantage. In combo heavy powered cubes, the card disadvantage is less important, as the games live-die by the opening hand. If ships are passing in the night, whatever ship passes faster wins
Winter orb's ceiling is very high, but it's much better in a powered cube than unpowered and specifically best in tolarian academy decks. When you have cards like Urza , goblin welder, Cradle/Academy to break the symmetry, the card can do some broken *****.
By itself in a random ramp or agro deck, without these interactions, it's whatever..
There are a lot of opposing decks that are explosive enough that they don't care about the mana constriction.
The density of it's best interactions matter a lot to the power of winter orb... Hence I am not surprised that the owner of a 360 powered cube thinks the card is busted, and a 720 powered cube owner thinks its whatever.
This list is quite solid. I particularly like seeing the drop in Jitte, because that’s been the experience in my Cube as well, and I’m glad it’s not “just us.”
For years Jitte was by FAR the best p1p1 in my unpowered 720, but over the past couple years we’ve seen a significant decline in runaway Jitte games. Not sure if it’s more balanced deckbuilding with respect to maindeck artifact destruction and better combo decks seeing play or if it’s simply a more balanced Cube list overall, but I’ve really enjoyed seeing this change. I would absolutely p1p1 a Skullclamp over Jitte, and that has only become the case recently.
A full list of results, with all cards that received votes and the number of lists a card appeared on, can be found on this Google spreadsheet.
2. Black Lotus
3. (ABU Moxen)e.g. Mox Sapphire
4. Mana Crypt
5. Mana Vault
6. Mox Diamond
7. Grim Monolith
8. Skullclamp
9. Umezawa's Jitte
10. Sword of Fire and Ice
11. Wurmcoil Engine
12. Coalition Relic
13. Karn, Scion of Urza
14. Time Vault
15. Crucible of Worlds
16 (T). Smokestack
16 (T). Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
17. Smuggler's Copter
18. Worn Powerstone
19. Winter Orb
20. Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Thanks to all 13 voters!
Trivia, Useless Ramblings, and Facts (TURF)
The Fast Life - The top 7 colorless cards are all colorless extremely efficient fast mana producers.
Jitte Jumped! - Umezawa's Jitte (#9) fell from the #4 colorless card in 2016 (surpassing even some fast mana cards) to being jumped by Skullclamp (#8).
Newcomers - Karn, Scion of Urza (#13), Time Vault(#14), Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger(#16-T), Smuggler's Copter(#17), Worn Powerstone (#18). Basically the top tier of colorless cards remains mostly untouched, but the rest of the top 20 got a big shakeup. The new entries are a mix of new cards and preexisting cards with the latter being cards that may have benefited from the new voting criteria. Time Vault is particularly interesting as the few who ranked it, ranked it very high, but only four people included it so it ended up at 14th -- probably a bit too low for an artifact costing 2 that can be manipulated to get endless turns, but that's just my take.
So Long, Farewell - Batterskull the former #12 in 2016 just missed the top 20 at #21 this year. Sword of Body and Mind fell from #13 in 2016 to #24 this year. Tangle Wire fell from #15 in 2016 to #31 this year! Karn Liberated fell from #17 in 2016 to #23 this year.
Voting for LANDS begins tomorrow and after those results, that's a wrap! (For real this time!) Thanks again to everyone for taking part.
Other than that specific gripe, list looks solid.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Edit: Just want to add though that IMO, Smokestack is criminally overrated here. I don't run it at all, let alone consider it a top 20 card. Never have I thought "if only Braids, Cabal Minion was slower and couldn't attack....". I get that it is colorless so perhaps the same cubes running fast mana are getting more value from this card by getting it out much faster, I just can't justify it in my list.
I hope that didn't sound angry either, because I promise I'm only arguing out of good faith to change some opinions, but my family members always tell me I sound passive-aggressive over text and I don't want to give that impression to anybody haha
Edit: and yea, we cut smokestack long ago. the card is super cool in theory but it kinda sucks, at least in fast formats.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
Winter Orb is one of the single easiest build around card in cube, I don't know what you're talking about. The card is bad vs non-land mana acceleration and aggro decks in the the same way that it's good in decks with them. That's like saying Moat is bad because it makes your Soldier of the Pantheon unable to attack while letting your opponent's Celestial Colonnade fly over: that's literally the entire point of the card, if it didn't accomplish that it would be worthless. Just make sure your deck has creatures that can attack early or mana acceleration and you're golden. I understand differing opinions and why the gameplay Orb creates might be boring, but the first reason you provided doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and if it did Armageddon, Wildfire, Balance and wrath of god would also be bad cards, which we know conclusively is not the case. Winter Orb is just as easy to build around as Grim Monolith, and is just as difficult to make work, which is not difficult at all.
Not saying it is a bad card, just not a top 20 card. It isn't as strong as any of the buildaround cards you've mentioned. Balance and *** are good when you are behind, which is a completely different place to be. I think Armageddon is overrated too.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
The card disadvantage quality to chrome mox is a severe cost and heavily underappreciated. I believe people to try to jam both mox diamond and chrome mox in way too many decks they don't belong. I can't count the number of discussions I've had with people to cut chrome mox from their deck or not play mox diamond in their 2 color deck that doesn't leverage the explosiveness.
Artifact decks want a mox effect the most, but chrome mox not being able to pitch artifacts is a huge downside for that deck.
I think I have the lowest opinion of chrome mox out of any good player I know that I've discussed the card with.
However, there are some decks where exploding into a snowball effect like a 3 mana planeswalker or a dark confidant is definitely worth the card disadvantage. In combo heavy powered cubes, the card disadvantage is less important, as the games live-die by the opening hand. If ships are passing in the night, whatever ship passes faster wins
Winter orb's ceiling is very high, but it's much better in a powered cube than unpowered and specifically best in tolarian academy decks. When you have cards like Urza , goblin welder, Cradle/Academy to break the symmetry, the card can do some broken *****.
By itself in a random ramp or agro deck, without these interactions, it's whatever..
There are a lot of opposing decks that are explosive enough that they don't care about the mana constriction.
The density of it's best interactions matter a lot to the power of winter orb... Hence I am not surprised that the owner of a 360 powered cube thinks the card is busted, and a 720 powered cube owner thinks its whatever.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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For years Jitte was by FAR the best p1p1 in my unpowered 720, but over the past couple years we’ve seen a significant decline in runaway Jitte games. Not sure if it’s more balanced deckbuilding with respect to maindeck artifact destruction and better combo decks seeing play or if it’s simply a more balanced Cube list overall, but I’ve really enjoyed seeing this change. I would absolutely p1p1 a Skullclamp over Jitte, and that has only become the case recently.