Fresh off of Anax, Hardened in the Forge, we have a more powerful version of the effect in black. A 1/1 copy of a creature is pretty nuts, crucially retaining ETB and death triggers. Sacrifice your Blood Artist, and still have one. You can have your minions and eat them too. Evoke Shriekmaw for double triggers and a 1/1 fear. There's a lot this does.
The stats are solid, and it works in or out of an aristocrats shell. If you have something scary like say Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, they have to spend two removal spells on it, since a 1/1 Norn is still a big problem. You have to remove the demon first (and four toughness ain't bad).
Oh, and it's an enchantment. This card is nuts. It's not without downside, since you have to exile the creature to get the token. But it's definitely nuts.
This card is tough for me to evaluate. It's definitely a solid card and extremely fun, but my intuition tells me it's a miss for small and mid-sized cubes.
There are some very powerful interactions (IE Goblin bombardment, sneak attack) and it provides an interesting form of protection for your other creatures. It's also a 4/4 flyer which is a solid base rate.
However, it's a 4 mana creature that the vast majority of the time, gets no value through all forms of removal.. It also needs support from other cards to be great. A 4 mana creature that has these two properties, needs to be completely busted to be worth playing.
That being said, It's a very fun card.. worth including if it's close.
This card is tough for me to evaluate. It's definitely a solid card and extremely fun, but my intuition tells me it's a miss for small and mid-sized cubes.
There are some very powerful interactions (IE Goblin bombardment, sneak attack) and it provides an interesting form of protection for your other creatures. It's also a 4/4 flyer which is a solid base rate.
However, it's a 4 mana creature that the vast majority of the time, gets no value through all forms of removal.. It also needs support from other cards to be great. A 4 mana creature that has these two properties, needs to be completely busted to be worth playing.
That being said, It's a very fun card.. worth including if it's close.
It is a 4/4 flyer for 2BB. This is a pretty reasonable floor, especially for black.
I am all for the old Terminate test, but on a 4 drop with good stats like this, it feels acceptable to fail.
I like this card a lot, but I think it just misses for me at 360. I like the interactions with Evoke, it gets you extra buys with Glen Elendra Archmage, it looks good with Braids. It also beats for 4 in the air every turn.
Poor interaction with Recurring Nightmare, though. It also doesn't trigger for itself, which is unfortunate since it's vulnerable to both Terminate and Disenchant.
We don't get much bigger than 4/4 with flying without having downsides, and instead we have an ability with A lot of value. If you have a sac outlet set out, this creature no longer fails the terminate test, as you can begin to sacrifice in response. You opponent could instead choose to kill your sac outlet with this on the stack, but then they have to deal with a 4/4. I think that's a neat interaction.
This is a bit for aggro, but not 100 % unplayable as the body is good, and free 1/1 is nice.
Black 4 drops are really stacked after recent sets, and I don't know if this guy is good enough, but I feel like I have to test him. I too get the feeling that it will be a miss for small to mid sized cubes.
This card is tough for me to evaluate. It's definitely a solid card and extremely fun, but my intuition tells me it's a miss for small and mid-sized cubes.
There are some very powerful interactions (IE Goblin bombardment, sneak attack) and it provides an interesting form of protection for your other creatures. It's also a 4/4 flyer which is a solid base rate.
However, it's a 4 mana creature that the vast majority of the time, gets no value through all forms of removal.. It also needs support from other cards to be great. A 4 mana creature that has these two properties, needs to be completely busted to be worth playing.
That being said, It's a very fun card.. worth including if it's close.
It is a 4/4 flyer for 2BB. This is a pretty reasonable floor, especially for black.
I am all for the old Terminate test, but on a 4 drop with good stats like this, it feels acceptable to fail.
That's where the intuition comes in, do the stats justify failing the vindicate test? (failing vindicate test is significantly worse than the terminate test).
I feel compelled to constantly re-emphasize this point, as tons of people on these forums misunderstand what it means to fail the test and underestimate how big a deal it is... despite countless threads of evidence and rehashed debates.
How many 4 mana, 540- cube inclusions fail the vindicate test and are accepted as anything but a very late pick?
Compare that to the number of threads of 4 mana creatures , where people argue that the vindicate test is overrated...
What do you mean "Oh, and it's an enchantment"? That makes it more vulnerable to removal, and unless you're running a heavy enchantment theme it's a noticeable downside.
I think OP really highlights some of the cool stuff this card is capable of doing. Evoke definitely plays nicely, and I think so would just about any card you'd like in your Aristocrats deck.
I'm not sure what I'd remove in order to squeeze it in, though. I'll definitely give it some consideration, at the very least.
I'm not sure that a 1/1 is worth exiling all my creatures as they die, even if that 1/1 keeps the abilities. Usually in black, I have some plan of recurring my creatures.. and several have it already built in. Black has plenty of other good cards at 4 that don't cannibalize my own graveyard so it's a pass for me.
The exile appears to be a may, so you don’t need to exile your Bloodghast that dies with this on board. Worth noting, I suppose.
But in that case, this is just an easier to remove flying 4/4 in a color that is 4cmc stacked. I could see choosing not to activate often, either leaving alone your small, recursive creatures, or your big fatties that you will want to bring back later.
For a card like this that relies on its triggers, I feel like I would be choosing not to too often for it to be worthwhile.
I see Nightmare Shepherd more like a build-around. If you play it with army-in-a-can dudes for example, since a huge part of their strenght comes from the tokens anyway, it seems really good. Weirdly, it also reminds me of Bramble Sovereign, which is a really sweet card and super powerful with small value guys!
Geist of Saint Traft, Ophiomancer, Eternal Witness and any version of 2-mana discard guys also seem like natural fits for the Nightmare as well, since they are cheap and full of none-stats value. Bone Shredder and Avalanche Riders seem absurd with it as well. And a sacoutlet makes that even better!
I see Nightmare Shepherd more like a build-around. If you play it with army-in-the-can dudes for example, since a huge part of their strenght comes from the tokens anyway, it seems really good. Weirdly, it also reminds me of Bramble Sovereign, which is a really sweet card and super powerful with small value guys!
Geist of Saint Traft, Ophiomancer, Eternal Witness and any version of 2-mana discard guys also seem like natural fits for the Nightmare as well, since they are cheap and full of none-stats value. Bone Shredder and Avalanche Riders seem absurd with it as well. And a sacoutlet makes that even better!
Unfortunately regarding some of this post... This card says non-token. :/
However, it is quite good with the ETB + die creatures like Avalanche Riders and Bone Shredder or anything with evoke.
I think he meant token makers, like Blade Splicer and Siege-Gang Commander and stuff. Very good with Shepherd since their value comes from the tokens they make when they ETB, which you would trigger again w/ the Shepherd.
That's what I meant. And I referred to GoST as well because Nightmare Shepherd gives him another life in order to swing for more damage. At the same tkme, I must wanted to point out that he can be fine even with creatures without ETB trigger. I mean, even creatures like Dark Confidant, Young Pyromancer or Scavenging Ooze seems sweet with it in some sense.
We Cubed four times today with the new cards. This card was unfortunately the worst of the tests... Too many disynergies in black, and her requirements to really shine are too niche. She will be leaving the Cube.
(Edit: Updated image)
Fresh off of Anax, Hardened in the Forge, we have a more powerful version of the effect in black. A 1/1 copy of a creature is pretty nuts, crucially retaining ETB and death triggers. Sacrifice your Blood Artist, and still have one. You can have your minions and eat them too. Evoke Shriekmaw for double triggers and a 1/1 fear. There's a lot this does.
The stats are solid, and it works in or out of an aristocrats shell. If you have something scary like say Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, they have to spend two removal spells on it, since a 1/1 Norn is still a big problem. You have to remove the demon first (and four toughness ain't bad).
Oh, and it's an enchantment. This card is nuts. It's not without downside, since you have to exile the creature to get the token. But it's definitely nuts.
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There are some very powerful interactions (IE Goblin bombardment, sneak attack) and it provides an interesting form of protection for your other creatures. It's also a 4/4 flyer which is a solid base rate.
However, it's a 4 mana creature that the vast majority of the time, gets no value through all forms of removal.. It also needs support from other cards to be great. A 4 mana creature that has these two properties, needs to be completely busted to be worth playing.
That being said, It's a very fun card.. worth including if it's close.
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It is a 4/4 flyer for 2BB. This is a pretty reasonable floor, especially for black.
I am all for the old Terminate test, but on a 4 drop with good stats like this, it feels acceptable to fail.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
Poor interaction with Recurring Nightmare, though. It also doesn't trigger for itself, which is unfortunate since it's vulnerable to both Terminate and Disenchant.
[180 classic cube]
This is a bit for aggro, but not 100 % unplayable as the body is good, and free 1/1 is nice.
Black 4 drops are really stacked after recent sets, and I don't know if this guy is good enough, but I feel like I have to test him. I too get the feeling that it will be a miss for small to mid sized cubes.
That's where the intuition comes in, do the stats justify failing the vindicate test? (failing vindicate test is significantly worse than the terminate test).
I feel compelled to constantly re-emphasize this point, as tons of people on these forums misunderstand what it means to fail the test and underestimate how big a deal it is... despite countless threads of evidence and rehashed debates.
How many 4 mana, 540- cube inclusions fail the vindicate test and are accepted as anything but a very late pick?
Compare that to the number of threads of 4 mana creatures , where people argue that the vindicate test is overrated...
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I'm not sure what I'd remove in order to squeeze it in, though. I'll definitely give it some consideration, at the very least.
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Maybe I'm missing something? or did you miss that it exiles the creature that dies?
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I hate everything way less interested without any of the possible loops.
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Yeah, the Nightmare Shepard will see everything go to the graveyard at the same time, and will trigger for all of your other nontoken creatures.
[180 classic cube]
But in that case, this is just an easier to remove flying 4/4 in a color that is 4cmc stacked. I could see choosing not to activate often, either leaving alone your small, recursive creatures, or your big fatties that you will want to bring back later.
For a card like this that relies on its triggers, I feel like I would be choosing not to too often for it to be worthwhile.
Geist of Saint Traft, Ophiomancer, Eternal Witness and any version of 2-mana discard guys also seem like natural fits for the Nightmare as well, since they are cheap and full of none-stats value. Bone Shredder and Avalanche Riders seem absurd with it as well. And a sacoutlet makes that even better!
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Unfortunately regarding some of this post... This card says non-token. :/
However, it is quite good with the ETB + die creatures like Avalanche Riders and Bone Shredder or anything with evoke.
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