Seems better than Yahenni's Expertise so an easy inclusion for me. Has synergies with Recurring Nightmare, but what doesn't. Can take down a whole army on defense - blocks and trades with the fattie, the rest will die after combat.
I'll try this one out for sure. Great rattelesnake, versatile, and in a super shallow spot in cube.
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I really like this card, and think it's a solid addition to the cube. But(!) I currently run Shriekmaw and Custodi Lich, and am not sure I really want to cut either of them.
It's possible that it's worth considering cutting something like Languish for it, but -4/-4 is pretty big game, and I don't play Yahenni's Expertise (or I'd probably cut that for this). I like trying to fit creature versions of spells into black whenever possible for incidental reanimation or Recurring Nightmare shenanigans, though.
I think that around 540 you can definitely just get away with a 5-drop black section with this, Shriekmaw, and Custodi Lich, but that otherwise it's an assessment of which 2 effects you want the most (unless you want to trim fat from elsewhere to carve out more space). They're all roughly comparable in power in my mind, with Custodi Lich probably being the most fragile due to low toughness and lack of evasion. This is definitely better at being a creature that shores up an aggro matchup compared to the other 2, even if it doesn't leave a body behind since you'll presumably want to evoke it.
It gets major points for being a 5 drop too. It's absolutely absurd in a Nightmare deck. Hadn't thought of that.
EDIT: In my 540 this easily goes in w/ Shriekmaw and Custodi Lich. I cut Languish for Yahenni's Expertise a while ago and have found it to be a good swap. I feel like sliding this in over Yahenni's Expertise will be pretty smooth and painless for me.
Cubebable, but my initial impressions are lukewarm. Sweeping my own creatures is a big no-no in a Recurring Nightmare deck, I think this is strictly a Control card that can be combo filler / fit into specialized midrange decks. Yahenni’ Expertise has shown me that -3/-3 sweepers have real limitations and this doesn’t have a coveted 5th toughness. Really needed bigger stats / some sort of evasion or lifelink to really get my juices flowing. I have my eye on the card, but I don’t think it’s better than commonly played 4-5 drops.
Aw yeah! Evoke baby! One of my favorite mechanics.
This seems totally testable to me. Mini mutilate mode (and easier to cast) + a body that trades with anything seems like a pretty good card. I do wonder what kind of deck this goes in (tapout control and superfriends seem obvious, but is that enough decks?), but it's a powerful card for sure.
I do think it's actually pretty bad in recurring nightmare.dec - most of that deck is looping value creatures, and this kills most of them.
Aw yeah! Evoke baby! One of my favorite mechanics.
This seems totally testable to me. Mini mutilate mode (and easier to cast) + a body that trades with anything seems like a pretty good card. I do wonder what kind of deck this goes in (tapout control and superfriends seem obvious, but is that enough decks?), but it's a powerful card for sure.
I do think it's actually pretty bad in recurring nightmare.dec - most of that deck is looping value creatures, and this kills most of them.
But after you kill them, you can use Recurring Nightmare to bring them back (and then use this to kill them again)!
Eh, not really what I want to be doing in a lot of black decks. Even in control, I prefer the sweepers that can kill X/4s and above. Now if this was ETB I think it would be way better, and good enough to stick around for a while.
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Re: Nightmare decks, if you sacrifice this guy to nightmare, his -3/-3 will resolve before the nightmare reanimation trigger resolves, right? So you can sweep the field and get something back from the yard and thus not find yourself with no creatures in play and a Nightmare in hand.
EDIT: I know there would already need to be a creature in your yard before you activate Nightmare in the above scenario. Just making that clear.
Re: Nightmare decks, if you sacrifice this guy to nightmare, his -3/-3 will resolve before the nightmare reanimation trigger resolves, right? So you can sweep the field and get something back from the yard and thus not find yourself with no creatures in play and a Nightmare in hand.
EDIT: I know there would already need to be a creature in your yard before you activate Nightmare in the above scenario. Just making that clear.
Yes, the LTB trigger would be put on top of the Nightmare activation, so you'll sweep the field before you return your creature to the battlefield.
That doesn't seem like a terrible play to me. Often times you need a way to shut down the aggro player in Nightmare decks. I think the interaction is a positive when considering this card. But that is a niche application.
One downside that needs to be discussed is that your opponent could have power over when this triggers if you stick it and try to use it as a blocker/attacker. So playing it out as a beater with other creatures that have 3 or less power could be a big liability.
I dig it. I've never found the black five slot to be as shallow as everyone else does, but this seems like a solid option. It has some choices to make, and some synergies to find. 3/4 deathtouch for 5 is not exactly the bomb, and -3/-3 is not exactly game-breaking, but there's something interesting going on in every part of the card.
I really like the black midrange sweepers, so at 425 it might be better to just add this and cut something else than to replace expertise, as the black midrange wraths are all pretty sweet. Nightmare is good, but is slowly getting worse and worse over time because it’s so slow imo, so I think expecting this to consistently trigger more than once is a very unrealistic expectation.
The art is also awful, so I don’t like that I’m going to have to see this card in my cube for a while.
This will replace Champion of Dusk in my cube. It's a very strong creature for any multiplayer/edh cube
The 5cmc prince that was promised? Most likely not, because as a creature it kind of needs a very specific board state to be useful.
I think this card will be played a lot more often as a 4 mana wrath than a 5cc creature
Agree, and that's what I like most about this card. This guy is a wrath that can be tutored for and abused by the plethora of things that tutor for and abuse creatures.
I think this card will be played a lot more often as a 4 mana wrath than a 5cc creature
Agree, and that's what I like most about this card. This guy is a wrath that can be tutored for and abused by the plethora of things that tutor for and abuse creatures.
FWIW, I love the art too.
The cards that Tutor for creatures are usually in creature heavy decks, where I really wouldn’t want to play this maindeck.
Pros:
More versatile as it can played as a creature as well
3B Over 2BB
Cons:
One less -1/-1
On death trigger rather than ETB
If it was an ETB It would be a slam dunk, but since it's on leave the battlefield it's a toss up between the two. I'll hafta test whether or not the extra -1/-1 makes a difference.
Either way this is the new best card in the set, will definitely test at 360.
Good damn, it seems like some have difficulties appreaciating good cards! This card is bonker, period. Good control card, good midrange card and good combo card as well. Doesn't see any problem with the art either.
This card is solid, but I'm not sure I need it. I like my other sweepers more, and as a 5cc creature, it has real limitations as to the kinds of decks that might want it around. Probably worth resting, but I'm not excited for it.
Not a creature that I’d want to play in most recurring nightmare decks... very much a control cards thats primary mode is the evoke cost.
Unless you want 5 sweepers in black (I wouldn’t), this competes in power and function with yaheeni’s expertise and languish. After a bunch of testing I think languish > expertise, and the extra -1/-1 really mattered.
If it’s perceived primarily as a sweeper, does the upside of its alternative mode, make up for losing -1/-1? I don’t know.
There’s a lot of benefit to having the creature mode. From having an out to a big titan, to reanimating it in a pinch, to sneak attacking it into play for R...
I’m going to test it, but gun to my head, I’d guess languish is better and I don’t want 4 black sweepers.
Shriekmaw + Yahenni's Expertise... Shriekspertise.
This creature seems like it's worth discussing and has a couple different modes/lines of play. What do y'all think?
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It's possible that it's worth considering cutting something like Languish for it, but -4/-4 is pretty big game, and I don't play Yahenni's Expertise (or I'd probably cut that for this). I like trying to fit creature versions of spells into black whenever possible for incidental reanimation or Recurring Nightmare shenanigans, though.
I think that around 540 you can definitely just get away with a 5-drop black section with this, Shriekmaw, and Custodi Lich, but that otherwise it's an assessment of which 2 effects you want the most (unless you want to trim fat from elsewhere to carve out more space). They're all roughly comparable in power in my mind, with Custodi Lich probably being the most fragile due to low toughness and lack of evasion. This is definitely better at being a creature that shores up an aggro matchup compared to the other 2, even if it doesn't leave a body behind since you'll presumably want to evoke it.
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EDIT: In my 540 this easily goes in w/ Shriekmaw and Custodi Lich. I cut Languish for Yahenni's Expertise a while ago and have found it to be a good swap. I feel like sliding this in over Yahenni's Expertise will be pretty smooth and painless for me.
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This seems totally testable to me. Mini mutilate mode (and easier to cast) + a body that trades with anything seems like a pretty good card. I do wonder what kind of deck this goes in (tapout control and superfriends seem obvious, but is that enough decks?), but it's a powerful card for sure.
I do think it's actually pretty bad in recurring nightmare.dec - most of that deck is looping value creatures, and this kills most of them.
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EDIT: I know there would already need to be a creature in your yard before you activate Nightmare in the above scenario. Just making that clear.
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One downside that needs to be discussed is that your opponent could have power over when this triggers if you stick it and try to use it as a blocker/attacker. So playing it out as a beater with other creatures that have 3 or less power could be a big liability.
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The art is also awful, so I don’t like that I’m going to have to see this card in my cube for a while.
I'm onboard with a Sweeper/Wincon split card, even at a boosted rate, but the non-evoke version seems kind of mopey.
The biggest draw for me is the possibility of a Thragtusk standoff, and resulting weird board states.
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The 5cmc prince that was promised? Most likely not, because as a creature it kind of needs a very specific board state to be useful.
Agree, and that's what I like most about this card. This guy is a wrath that can be tutored for and abused by the plethora of things that tutor for and abuse creatures.
FWIW, I love the art too.
The cards that Tutor for creatures are usually in creature heavy decks, where I really wouldn’t want to play this maindeck.
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Pros:
More versatile as it can played as a creature as well
3B Over 2BB
Cons:
One less -1/-1
On death trigger rather than ETB
If it was an ETB It would be a slam dunk, but since it's on leave the battlefield it's a toss up between the two. I'll hafta test whether or not the extra -1/-1 makes a difference.
Either way this is the new best card in the set, will definitely test at 360.
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Unless you want 5 sweepers in black (I wouldn’t), this competes in power and function with yaheeni’s expertise and languish. After a bunch of testing I think languish > expertise, and the extra -1/-1 really mattered.
If it’s perceived primarily as a sweeper, does the upside of its alternative mode, make up for losing -1/-1? I don’t know.
There’s a lot of benefit to having the creature mode. From having an out to a big titan, to reanimating it in a pinch, to sneak attacking it into play for R...
I’m going to test it, but gun to my head, I’d guess languish is better and I don’t want 4 black sweepers.
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