Interesting with the divergence in reads - some of the brighter minds on here are on board, which can be a good sign I think in general it is a card for a player-base that is quite skilled - there are a lot of interesting decisions to be made when playing this, and my players are pretty bad in general so I don't think they will enjoy playing with it.
With that in mind, Paying 4RRRR for Rummage 2 and at most 4 power on the board at any time does not strike me as particularly good value. Discard effects are not hard to come by in the decks that need them, in my experience.
Interesting with the divergence in reads - some of the brighter minds on here are on board, which can be a good sign I think in general it is a card for a player-base that is quite skilled - there are a lot of interesting decisions to be made when playing this, and my players are pretty bad in general so I don't think they will enjoy playing with it.
With that in mind, Paying 4RRRR for Rummage 2 and at most 4 power on the board at any time does not strike me as particularly good value. Discard effects are not hard to come by in the decks that need them, in my experience.
Well, that's the absolute floor for the card though. If you are hellbent, it's 1RR draw 2 make a 2/2, which is pretty damn good. The GY mode can be done at instant speed, meaning you can leave up countermagic or other interaction and then use this on your opponent's end step, or just when you run out of gas.
All that being said, I still don't think this cracks into red's 3's. That section is so tight. I'm already not running warboss or krenko.
With that in mind, Paying 4RRRR for Rummage 2 and at most 4 power on the board at any time does not strike me as particularly good value. Discard effects are not hard to come by in the decks that need them, in my experience.
Also Pack Rat costs 5BBB and you have to discard two cards just to get three vanilla 3/3's. Card's Lousy. Meloku the Clouded Mirror costs 6U and you have to bounce 2 of your lands for a measly 2/4 flyer and two 1/1 flyers. Trash. Siege-Gang Commander costs 6RRRRR For a 2/2 and 6 divisible damage. Next!
I'm only teasing, but seriously adding up the costs of doing all the things isn't a great methodology to determine a card's value.
An aggro curve topper.
1. If your remaining hand is good, cast the cards to hellbent yourself and draw 2 when you cast this.
2. If your hand are bad spells, cycle them and add 1/1s
3. If you have useless lands, cycle them and potentially get spells.
It is slightly complicated to use well, but it works. This will require testing if there are “hand states” that it improves.
As an aggro creature it pales in comparison to the rabblemasters,
But...
I like the it has an entirely different use in graveyard strategies, as a discard outlet (while providing chump blockers) and as a discard payoff itself. With the latter it can provide tokens again. It feels like Lingering Souls.
If I am building an aggro deck I definitely want the rabblemasters over this but I want to see what decks what the graveyard interaction aspect of the card.
With that in mind, Paying 4RRRR for Rummage 2 and at most 4 power on the board at any time does not strike me as particularly good value. Discard effects are not hard to come by in the decks that need them, in my experience.
Also Pack Rat costs 5BBB and you have to discard two cards just to get three vanilla 3/3's. Card's Lousy. Meloku the Clouded Mirror costs 6U and you have to bounce 2 of your lands for a measly 2/4 flyer and two 1/1 flyers. Trash. Siege-Gang Commander costs 6RRRRR For a 2/2 and 6 divisible damage. Next!
I'm only teasing, but seriously adding up the costs of doing all the things isn't a great methodology to determine a card's value.
Your methodology is quite perfect either since those cards are reusable whereas this does what it does and that's it.
asmallcat: Obviously I was evaluating the floor, but the ceiling is usually only good for creating hype in threads on here. Hellbent is obviously the dream, but in any situation where you want to play one of your last 1-2 cards in your hand and you draw this, it is dead. If you are stuck with 1-2 cards in hand and you can't cast them yet because you need 1-2 mana, this card is dead. If creating two 1/1's for 3RR at instant speed is your best play, you are probably losing.
BlackWaltz3: I think it is extremely obvious why Pack Rat, Meloku and Siege-gang are incredible cards at their cost, and why the cost of those cards are much more reasonable. All of them can single-handedly win you the game, in some cases the turn after hitting the board. What is the absolute best scenario this spicy flameboi can achieve?
My only point is that the card advantage is situational and only in two scenarios you gain more cards, the bodies are lightweight and have no evasion, and he never puts significant pressure on your opponent.
Best scenario? It can generate 6 power and 5 bodies while discarding things like Bloodghast/Gravecrawler/etc. and exiling later on when you have unspent/unused mana. It can be cast while hellbent to be a 3-mana 2/2 that draws 2 cards, like an evoked Mulldrifter you don't have to sacrifice. You can discard 2 lands when you have a Crucible of Worlds in play and draw 2 more gas spells for essentially no cost. You can discard fatties for reanimator or artifacts for Daretti/Feldon/Welder. There's a lot of crazy stuff this can do for you.
Not as good as the Rabblemasters for aggro, but it can be a roleplayer for like 6 different non-aggro archetypes that red plays in. And it's still a playable 3-drop in generic theater decks, even if it's not ideal there. Since the hellbent draw and rummaging can always be valuable in a format as volatile as cube.
This made it into a Reanimator deck last night. The pilot was pretty pleased with it, he said he never cast it on curve, but he did get to discard a Griselbrand to it and draw into a Feldon of the Third Path.
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With that in mind, Paying 4RRRR for Rummage 2 and at most 4 power on the board at any time does not strike me as particularly good value. Discard effects are not hard to come by in the decks that need them, in my experience.
Well, that's the absolute floor for the card though. If you are hellbent, it's 1RR draw 2 make a 2/2, which is pretty damn good. The GY mode can be done at instant speed, meaning you can leave up countermagic or other interaction and then use this on your opponent's end step, or just when you run out of gas.
All that being said, I still don't think this cracks into red's 3's. That section is so tight. I'm already not running warboss or krenko.
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Also Pack Rat costs 5BBB and you have to discard two cards just to get three vanilla 3/3's. Card's Lousy.
Meloku the Clouded Mirror costs 6U and you have to bounce 2 of your lands for a measly 2/4 flyer and two 1/1 flyers. Trash.
Siege-Gang Commander costs 6RRRRR For a 2/2 and 6 divisible damage. Next!
I'm only teasing, but seriously adding up the costs of doing all the things isn't a great methodology to determine a card's value.
1. If your remaining hand is good, cast the cards to hellbent yourself and draw 2 when you cast this.
2. If your hand are bad spells, cycle them and add 1/1s
3. If you have useless lands, cycle them and potentially get spells.
It is slightly complicated to use well, but it works. This will require testing if there are “hand states” that it improves.
As an aggro creature it pales in comparison to the rabblemasters,
But...
I like the it has an entirely different use in graveyard strategies, as a discard outlet (while providing chump blockers) and as a discard payoff itself. With the latter it can provide tokens again. It feels like Lingering Souls.
If I am building an aggro deck I definitely want the rabblemasters over this but I want to see what decks what the graveyard interaction aspect of the card.
Your methodology is quite perfect either since those cards are reusable whereas this does what it does and that's it.
BlackWaltz3: I think it is extremely obvious why Pack Rat, Meloku and Siege-gang are incredible cards at their cost, and why the cost of those cards are much more reasonable. All of them can single-handedly win you the game, in some cases the turn after hitting the board. What is the absolute best scenario this spicy flameboi can achieve?
My only point is that the card advantage is situational and only in two scenarios you gain more cards, the bodies are lightweight and have no evasion, and he never puts significant pressure on your opponent.
Not as good as the Rabblemasters for aggro, but it can be a roleplayer for like 6 different non-aggro archetypes that red plays in. And it's still a playable 3-drop in generic theater decks, even if it's not ideal there. Since the hellbent draw and rummaging can always be valuable in a format as volatile as cube.
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