Powerful effect even if you're not monarch. More expensive than the other courts, but it's a fast clock and your opponent is pretty dead if they don't steal monarch immediately. Might test it just for the sake of pushing monarch / courts, I like all of them well enough besides the black one.
I think this seems pretty good and would be willing to try it out. Seems like more than just Red aggro decks would be willing to run it and a sticky threat that can be difficult to interact with. Even worse case scenarios where you don't retain the monarch, the card basically replaces itself at least, and then acts as a 1 sided sulfuric vortex as a floor with a threat that if you ever gain the monarch and hold it for 1 turn you will probably win at that point.
Seems strong.. The most powerful of the courts if you maintain the monarch, and might sneak out a victory even if you can't.
But functionally it does something very similar to the white monarch for an extra mana. Hard to imagine losing with either of them if you maintain the monarch and hard to imagine winning if you can't keep it (or hold it).
Def going to test as it's hard to evaluate. Every monarch card i've ever tested in the past has outperformed my expectations, so let's see if that holds up for this set!
Wow 7 direct damage? Wizards avoids printing anything that is 5+ damage but 7?
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7 damage every upkeep is obviously crazy, and monarch is a powerful effect. However I have a hard time seeing how this card will actually be played.
I don't think it's an important card for aggro. It could see play as a curve-topper, but when building an aggro deck this is very low on my priority list so most likely I won't pick it unless there isn't much else to pick (and even then it might not make the cut). For a burn deck, I think the monarch effect is much likelier to backfire, in which case you don't get enough for your 5 mana investment so I'm hesitant to include it as well.
So this is a card for red control, and some midrange decks - and even if you play it and have the mana there are plenty of board states where dropping this is just a bad idea. And it's not a key card for any deck.
IDK, I'm just not sure it merits a slot and wouldn't know what to cut for it. Am I so off-base on this one?
7 damage every upkeep is obviously crazy, and monarch is a powerful effect. However I have a hard time seeing how this card will actually be played.
I don't think it's an important card for aggro. It could see play as a curve-topper, but when building an aggro deck this is very low on my priority list so most likely I won't pick it unless there isn't much else to pick (and even then it might not make the cut). For a burn deck, I think the monarch effect is much likelier to backfire, in which case you don't get enough for your 5 mana investment so I'm hesitant to include it as well.
So this is a card for red control, and some midrange decks - and even if you play it and have the mana there are plenty of board states where dropping this is just a bad idea. And it's not a key card for any deck.
IDK, I'm just not sure it merits a slot and wouldn't know what to cut for it. Am I so off-base on this one?
I don't think so. I agree with your assessment here.
This card seems like a monocolored juiced-up Keranos, God of Storms. When things go well, you get both the card draw and the bolt, except it now deals 7 damage!
If you have creatures to ensure monarch with, this card can just lock down the game by casting Cinder Storm at any threat they cast.
That said its not something you want in an aggro deck. And the monarch mechanic asks you to have creatures in your deck, so creatureless control decks are also out on this. Izzet tempo doesn't want this either. Twin, sneak attack, wildfire archtypes have better things to do.
I could see it as a fun deck in a midrange-control grixis deck, but even there it would be completely replaceable.
This card can feel akward, and narrow when you try to make it work, and oppressive when it works. So it's not something I would love to add in a lower powered cube.
7 damage every upkeep is obviously crazy, and monarch is a powerful effect. However I have a hard time seeing how this card will actually be played.
I don't think it's an important card for aggro. It could see play as a curve-topper, but when building an aggro deck this is very low on my priority list so most likely I won't pick it unless there isn't much else to pick (and even then it might not make the cut). For a burn deck, I think the monarch effect is much likelier to backfire, in which case you don't get enough for your 5 mana investment so I'm hesitant to include it as well.
So this is a card for red control, and some midrange decks - and even if you play it and have the mana there are plenty of board states where dropping this is just a bad idea. And it's not a key card for any deck.
IDK, I'm just not sure it merits a slot and wouldn't know what to cut for it. Am I so off-base on this one?
I wonder if enough of these effects can justify a monarch build around?
Perhaps these are the top end needed for janky creature midrange decks to compete with control decks...
Focus on cheap disruption and cards that can protect the monarch like blade splider/bitterblossom.
These cards are very busted on rate if you can maintain the monarch.
Probably being dense here, but why can't this see play in aggressive decks? Too slow? Too expensive? Fredo you mentioned this would be low on your priority list, how come?
7 damage every upkeep is obviously crazy, and monarch is a powerful effect. However I have a hard time seeing how this card will actually be played.
I don't think it's an important card for aggro. It could see play as a curve-topper, but when building an aggro deck this is very low on my priority list so most likely I won't pick it unless there isn't much else to pick (and even then it might not make the cut). For a burn deck, I think the monarch effect is much likelier to backfire, in which case you don't get enough for your 5 mana investment so I'm hesitant to include it as well.
So this is a card for red control, and some midrange decks - and even if you play it and have the mana there are plenty of board states where dropping this is just a bad idea. And it's not a key card for any deck.
IDK, I'm just not sure it merits a slot and wouldn't know what to cut for it. Am I so off-base on this one?
I wonder if enough of these effects can justify a monarch build around?
Perhaps these are the top end needed for janky creature midrange decks to compete with control decks...
Focus on cheap disruption and cards that can protect the monarch like blade splider/bitterblossom.
These cards are very busted on rate if you can maintain the monarch.
Probabily not, but something to think about.
Monarch itself can be a build subtheme, doesn't necessarily have to be around courts. Just have monarch cards and be well positioned to fight the monarch subgame.
Probably being dense here, but why can't this see play in aggressive decks? Too slow? Too expensive? Fredo you mentioned this would be low on your priority list, how come?
Well my aggro decks are fast, so most of them have no cards costing more than 4 mana. Sometimes there's a single 5-drop curve-topper, but I prefer to curve out at 4. So any 5-drop will be low on my pick list for aggro, and I will take Thundermaw Hellkite before Court of Ire because it just kills my opponent dead right now instead of maybe next turn. High on my pick list will be low drop creatures, disruption, cheap burn & equipment. A 5-drop do-nothing enchantment (which is basically what Court of Ire is when looked at through an aggro lens) is not what I want in my aggro decks.
Ire has played in midrange decks and it has he's been surprised here. Honestly, we think it is better than Court of Bounty for us. For me: Court of Grace = Cunning > Ire >> Bounty >> Ambition
I’m thinking about trying this out for non-blue control decks. Big Boros has been seeing more play thanks to cards like Moat and Humility, and this seems perfect for that deck.
Necro. I'd like to give my two cents about the card and ask for some discussion.
Personally, I can definitely see the appeal of the card. Monarch is great, especially for a color that likes aggro so much, and 7 damage is a lot. Often when resolving this card it was enough to slowly kill the opponent's biggest threat each turn, while the card advantage from keeping the monarch slowly assures victory, and that's even without dealing damage to the opponent themselves nearly guaranteeing lethal.
However, this card has proved to be polarizing: once you lose monarch it's extremely hard to regain it, since 2 damage doesn't do a lot, even if it is every turn. Moreover, the prohibitive cost of 5 mana means this is often out of aggro's main deck scope, and the fact that it has no board presence makes it hard to play for midrange.
--
I'm bringing this up because I'm curious about comparing it to Court of Embereth.
In comparison to this card, CoE always guarantees board presence - which makes defending the monarch much easier - and if you are the monarch, you get to slowly burn down your opponent's life total. Aggro likes the reduced cost better, and midrange likes the board presence, but in terms of sheer power the older court clearly wins.
The newer court is also really sad when compared to options in other colors, like Court of Garenbrig and Court of Grace.
--
How have your experiences with the red courts been? Do you favor one over another? And how would you rate the cards?
I'm bringing this up because I'm curious about comparing it to Court of Embereth.
IMO the closest comparison to this card is Court of Locthwain (which I think is very underrated) in the sense that losing the monarch isn't too bad since a Shock is roughly worth a card anyways so you'll be at parity in most scenarios. Although Court of Lochtwain only costing 4 mana and being in the same color as Dark Ritual makes it much better than a lot of other courts.
How have your experiences with the red courts been? Do you favor one over another? And how would you rate the cards?
I made it a point to test all the original courts to make sure we didn't miss out on another Palace Jailer. All of them but Court of Grace were big disappointments. Right now the only two courts I'm currently cubing with are Court of Locthwain and Court of Garenbrig. Court of Grace is still very playable, but it has much more competition with white 4-cmc planeswalkers / Seasoned Dungeoneer / Palace Jailer / etc.
Powerful effect even if you're not monarch. More expensive than the other courts, but it's a fast clock and your opponent is pretty dead if they don't steal monarch immediately. Might test it just for the sake of pushing monarch / courts, I like all of them well enough besides the black one.
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Why write 'player or permanent' there?
But functionally it does something very similar to the white monarch for an extra mana. Hard to imagine losing with either of them if you maintain the monarch and hard to imagine winning if you can't keep it (or hold it).
Def going to test as it's hard to evaluate. Every monarch card i've ever tested in the past has outperformed my expectations, so let's see if that holds up for this set!
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I don't think it's an important card for aggro. It could see play as a curve-topper, but when building an aggro deck this is very low on my priority list so most likely I won't pick it unless there isn't much else to pick (and even then it might not make the cut). For a burn deck, I think the monarch effect is much likelier to backfire, in which case you don't get enough for your 5 mana investment so I'm hesitant to include it as well.
So this is a card for red control, and some midrange decks - and even if you play it and have the mana there are plenty of board states where dropping this is just a bad idea. And it's not a key card for any deck.
IDK, I'm just not sure it merits a slot and wouldn't know what to cut for it. Am I so off-base on this one?
I don't think so. I agree with your assessment here.
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If you have creatures to ensure monarch with, this card can just lock down the game by casting Cinder Storm at any threat they cast.
That said its not something you want in an aggro deck. And the monarch mechanic asks you to have creatures in your deck, so creatureless control decks are also out on this. Izzet tempo doesn't want this either. Twin, sneak attack, wildfire archtypes have better things to do.
I could see it as a fun deck in a midrange-control grixis deck, but even there it would be completely replaceable.
This card can feel akward, and narrow when you try to make it work, and oppressive when it works. So it's not something I would love to add in a lower powered cube.
I'm much higher on the white one.
I wonder if enough of these effects can justify a monarch build around?
Perhaps these are the top end needed for janky creature midrange decks to compete with control decks...
Focus on cheap disruption and cards that can protect the monarch like blade splider/bitterblossom.
These cards are very busted on rate if you can maintain the monarch.
Probabily not, but something to think about.
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Monarch itself can be a build subtheme, doesn't necessarily have to be around courts. Just have monarch cards and be well positioned to fight the monarch subgame.
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Well my aggro decks are fast, so most of them have no cards costing more than 4 mana. Sometimes there's a single 5-drop curve-topper, but I prefer to curve out at 4. So any 5-drop will be low on my pick list for aggro, and I will take Thundermaw Hellkite before Court of Ire because it just kills my opponent dead right now instead of maybe next turn. High on my pick list will be low drop creatures, disruption, cheap burn & equipment. A 5-drop do-nothing enchantment (which is basically what Court of Ire is when looked at through an aggro lens) is not what I want in my aggro decks.
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Personally, I can definitely see the appeal of the card. Monarch is great, especially for a color that likes aggro so much, and 7 damage is a lot. Often when resolving this card it was enough to slowly kill the opponent's biggest threat each turn, while the card advantage from keeping the monarch slowly assures victory, and that's even without dealing damage to the opponent themselves nearly guaranteeing lethal.
However, this card has proved to be polarizing: once you lose monarch it's extremely hard to regain it, since 2 damage doesn't do a lot, even if it is every turn. Moreover, the prohibitive cost of 5 mana means this is often out of aggro's main deck scope, and the fact that it has no board presence makes it hard to play for midrange.
--
I'm bringing this up because I'm curious about comparing it to Court of Embereth.
In comparison to this card, CoE always guarantees board presence - which makes defending the monarch much easier - and if you are the monarch, you get to slowly burn down your opponent's life total. Aggro likes the reduced cost better, and midrange likes the board presence, but in terms of sheer power the older court clearly wins.
The newer court is also really sad when compared to options in other colors, like Court of Garenbrig and Court of Grace.
--
How have your experiences with the red courts been? Do you favor one over another? And how would you rate the cards?
IMO the closest comparison to this card is Court of Locthwain (which I think is very underrated) in the sense that losing the monarch isn't too bad since a Shock is roughly worth a card anyways so you'll be at parity in most scenarios. Although Court of Lochtwain only costing 4 mana and being in the same color as Dark Ritual makes it much better than a lot of other courts.
I made it a point to test all the original courts to make sure we didn't miss out on another Palace Jailer. All of them but Court of Grace were big disappointments. Right now the only two courts I'm currently cubing with are Court of Locthwain and Court of Garenbrig. Court of Grace is still very playable, but it has much more competition with white 4-cmc planeswalkers / Seasoned Dungeoneer / Palace Jailer / etc.
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