MTG Salvation

This definitely seems testable. The only tier-2 wrath effect I run is Shatter the Sky, but I'll definitely try this out over it.

How much value does this lose if it telegraphs itself 100% of the time it's foretold? If it's the only foretell card in the cube, it seems like it would be hard to trap the opponent into overextending into it. It might be hard to maximize the value of this card unless we get at least a few more foretell cards to bluff with. Seems about on par with Fumigate to me. I'd be happy to be wrong though.

I was also planning to test Starnheim Unleashed, so it'd be a 50/50 shot, with both foretell cards being in the same color. It gets worse if it's the only one, but I expect Starnheim Unleashed to last at least a fair amount of time.

Another potential problem is that if you don't take the time to foretell it somewhere in your curve, you can't ever cast it for less than 5 mana. Something like Shatter the Sky might be more reliable as both a topdeck and an on-curve play for that reason. Not a dealbreaker or anything, I think this card is fine, but something to keep an eye out for. It feels like I'm doomed to either foretell the card (telegraphing the effect) or spending 5 mana on it.

I think it's interesting. I agree, some value is probably lost when you telegraph it ... but I think if you're convincing your opponent to play fewer creatures, it's still doing something useful. I'd say definitely not a substitute for classic wraths, but it could be an auxiliary one.

This is clearly worse than all the unconditional 4-mana wraths, and I'm currently running 3 of them (wrath, day, damnation, verdict is still in my list cause I keep forgetting to cut if for teferi), and I think if I wanted a 4th one I'd take shatter the sky first. Maybe this is the 4th best one in white?

Hmm, as strange as a comparison I can think of to help evaluate this is Exalted Angel. Usually the opponent can suspect a morphed card (so few are fun in cubes these days), but the power level was worth it. A planned, telegraphed Wrath effect is still really good especially in tight mana situations (such as you were main decking Strip Mine, Wasteland, etc.).

Quote from Blue_Oneironaut »

I think if you're convincing your opponent to play fewer creatures, it's still doing something useful.

True enough. Perhaps the mind games this allows you to play can equate to buying extra time. May have to test and see!

Agree that fortelling may actually prevent your opponent from trying to develop their ‘field. Fortell can also evade black aggro disruption.

Adding in more fortell cards can make it much better, as the bluff can happen more frequently. And unlike morph, the foretold card is near impossible to interact with.

I think the unique fortell mechanic makes is worth a test.

Probably worth cutting Parallax Wave for in my cube. Even being able to threaten a turn 3 wrath is going to give a lot of aggro decks headaches.

Edit: Also a full art version of this needs to happen if it isn't already out there.

Probably I will cut Settle the Wreckage for this

Excited to play this alongside Starnheim Unleashed. Both cards are solid for white control decks which increases the power of foretell for both cards.

Quote from Patrunkenphat7 »

Excited to play this alongside Starnheim Unleashed. Both cards are solid for white control decks which increases the power of foretell for both cards.

Additional exciting thing about having them both is that they require exactly the opposite approaches to play into them as an aggro deck. If it's Doomskar, you want to avoid committing anything else you care about to the board, to avoid overextending into a wrath. If it's Starnheim Unleashed, you want to commit more to the board so you can race around the 4/4 vigilant blocker.

Quote from wallycaine »

Quote from Patrunkenphat7 »

Excited to play this alongside Starnheim Unleashed. Both cards are solid for white control decks which increases the power of foretell for both cards.

Additional exciting thing about having them both is that they require exactly the opposite approaches to play into them as an aggro deck. If it's Doomskar, you want to avoid committing anything else you care about to the board, to avoid overextending into a wrath. If it's Starnheim Unleashed, you want to commit more to the board so you can race around the 4/4 vigilant blocker.

Good points by both of you guys. Independently, I was super on the fence about either of the cards. But their synergy together (and how much the simple presence of one influences the other) makes me want to test them both out together. Thanks.

card seems pretty strong. will test over shatter the sky.

wouldnt cut parallax wave for this though. that card is a whole different type of beast.

I think this card might be really good. Hard to tell without some play testing, but in a lot of matchups this could easily be a stronger card than the traditional 4 mana variants. clearing the board on turn 3 instead of turn 4 even if you fortell this and show your opponent exactly what it is can still be a pretty big play. If you do a decision tree analysis of playing this turn 2 on the play against an aggro deck that commited 1 creature on turn 1...
Opponents can play another creature and get 2-1ed.
Opponents can keep 1 creature in play, swing for damage, and then on your turn you can then use a cheap removal spell on the creature in play, and then when they play something else you can think of this as an oblivion ring which stopped your opponent from playing a creature for 1 turn.

Either way, being able to clear the board on turn 3 instead of turn 4 is going to be a really strong play and difficult to play around.

Definitely strong IMO.

When facing against White Weenie/ Green ramp, I find taking out their 1 drops mana dorks/ Savanna Lions early on is incredibly important.

With only two foretell cards in the cube, knowing who drafted one could become a big deal (for instance if you have the Angels rotting in your sideboard, you know 100% for sure that your opponent’s foretold card is the Wrath). I'm not sure if being able to 100% divine your opponent's foretell cards is a feature (because it rewards paying attention to where the foretell cards are during the draft and remembering if you have seen one in a previous match) or a bug (because it's a bummer when your card doesn't work the way you expect because the Wrath you think is face down is actually face up). It seems like the foretell mechanic gets better at a higher density and a lower number of supported colors.

How many foretell cards do you need to run to keep players guessing? I’ve always enjoyed the morph mechanic’s shell game of hidden information in cube, so I run a package of seven morphs (at 540, all in Bant) in an attempt to keep the mystery alive. I don’t think I’ll actually run it, but I’m trying to imagine what a similar foretell package would look like. I could imagine an Azorius foretell package with Doomskar, Starnheim Unleashed, Saw It Coming, and the color-pie shattering Ravenform. If you really care about the mystery and can find the cuts, then perhaps also Alrund's Epiphany, Behold the Multiverse, Glorious Protector, Mystic Reflection, Depart the Realm and/or Stoic Farmer.

Quote from meltingsho »

How many foretell cards do you need to run to keep players guessing?

I have the same feelings about trying to keep the mystery of fortell. I am starting by running more of the effect then scaling it back to find the sweet spot.

my starting list is going to be:
doomskar
starnheim unleashed
glorious protector

ravenform
behold the multiverse

battle mammoth

I think in primarily white and blue this will give enough mystery to keep the feeling of the unknown but not sacrifice game play for weak cards.

I think all 5 blue and white options could easily be played in an azorius control shell, stranheim, protector and mammoth could easily be in a selesnya midrange deck, and ravenform, behold, and mammoth could easily be in a simic midrange deck together as well.

looking forward to testing these out together to try and find that density.

Quote from Visserdrix »

Quote from meltingsho »

How many foretell cards do you need to run to keep players guessing?

I have the same feelings about trying to keep the mystery of fortell. I am starting by running more of the effect then scaling it back to find the sweet spot.

my starting list is going to be:
doomskar
starnheim unleashed
glorious protector

ravenform
behold the multiverse

battle mammoth

I think in primarily white and blue this will give enough mystery to keep the feeling of the unknown but not sacrifice game play for weak cards.

I think all 5 blue and white options could easily be played in an azorius control shell, stranheim, protector and mammoth could easily be in a selesnya midrange deck, and ravenform, behold, and mammoth could easily be in a simic midrange deck together as well.

looking forward to testing these out together to try and find that density.

I think if you're gonna go for the foretell package you might want the cancel as well. Saw It Coming Will make people think more about playing into foretelled cards.

This card is interesting.

My intuition tells me it’s worse than the 4cc wrath and better than all the 5cc ones, but I think there’s a tiny chance it’s actually a tiny bit better than the 4cc ones... even if it’s telegraphed.

In Agro matchups, often you don’t care that much if they play around your wrath, you just need to stabilize ASAP and being able to do it a turn earlier (at the cost of the earlier turn), could (unlikely) be worth it.

not sure how often forgoing turn 2 in this dynamic will be too large a deal though..
Turn 2 signet -> turn 3 wrath is equal tempo to this... and that’s a common line.

I'm excited to test this card. The only foretell cards we wanted to try were this, Starnheim Unleashed and Glorious Protector, so for us there'll likely be little suspense as the what the control deck is tucking away in exile, but being able to wrath as early as turn 3 without a mana rock seems really strong. And although playing a rock on 2 and wrathing on 3 favors the 4cmc wraths, being able to drop a rock on 2 and exile this and hold up 2 and threaten a counterspell on 3, then cast this on 4 and have 2 up for the same counter seems like a perfectly reasonable line too.

You'll almost always have mana sitting around for this thing in control decks assuming it's in your opener, and although it might be worse off the top on turns 3 and 4, card looks solid. With that said, I really doubt it will stick in the long run in my cube since white doesn't really need more boardwipes next to Wrath of God/Day of Judgment/Winds of Abandon/Balance/Moat.