The Thran Dynamo to Hedron Archive swap does make sense due to casting cost and function, but I'll just put this out there and say that I'm not a fan of Chrome Mox in cube. For us it was not played that often and, for me personally, the card disadvantage never felt worth the mana boost. On top of that, most of the time it just gave me the feel bads to have to pitch something to it.
Looking through your list on CubeTutor, I noticed some cards you're not running that have been great for us. There are more, but I know you're in a smaller list (by 100 cards) than me so some of my "awesome" pet cards (*ahem* POX) won't make the cut, so I won't mention those. However, I'm curious about your thoughts on these cards and why you're not running them.
Whirler Rogue
Treasure Cruise
Avenger of Zendikar
Hangarback Walker
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
I assume that the two blue cards are simply due to a space factor. Cruise may not be needed alongside Dig Through Time in a 450 list. Is Avenger just not needed with the other big green guys? I prefer him to Greenwarden of Murasa for what it's worth. And I can only assume that Hangarback and Ugin are out due to their current high price tag.
Chrome Mox gets run in aggro here pretty regularly. I'll also run it in a Tinker deck as a 0 cost artifact to feed to the Tinker. It's not stellar, but it's solid.
I think those blue cards are awesome but blue is just too tight at 450. Cruise actually interests me less than Rogue, just because I have Fof, Dig, and Recall already. Rogue could come in. I bought a foil to have on deck.
I like Avenger a lot, but I'm trying out Greenwarden for now. I haven't cubed since that addition so I still need to test it out before I switch back. For curve reasons, I like the Greenwarden better. I still need to see how it plays.
The two colorless cards are out just because of price. They are on my radar for acquisition in the future. I wish I jumped on the Walker when it was still $5.
I think Chrome Mox gets a bad rap because it gets forced into decks where it maybe shouldn't be or you exile the wrong get and then get the wrong impression of what it does. At the end of the day, 0-mana ramp is kind of universally good in almost all cases where you'd want it, and is often worth the sacrifice you have to make if you make it. I might not play it in an aggressive deck where I'd rather use the spell as gas instead of as quick ramp, but there are certainly strong decks for it where it shines.
I also like Greenwarden more than Avenger. Avenger is cool, but it can be a *****ty creature to cheat out, and sometimes you aren't able to trigger landfall and you have a bunch of useless 0/1s. Green warden doesn't always hit either, but that's usually rare, and I like having more regrowth effects attached to reasonably costed creatures with this guy being reasonable since he has the death trigger as well.
I liked Chrome Mox a lot in that standard format where you could go land, Chrome Mox, pitch random red card, Slith Firewalker, attack, pass. Maybe I'm just a bad player, but in cube I never want to pitch an actual card to Chrome Mox. Let's say I open a generic RG aggro hand of Forest, Mountain, Chrome Mox, Experiment One, Strangleroot Geist, Firedrinker Satyr, Incinerate. I don't want to pitch my Geist to play turn one double 1 drop. I don't want to pitch my Experiment One to get turn one Geist. It seems better to me to naturally curve into my plays there. Am I completely wrong? What's the correct (aka better) play in that type of scenario?
As to Greenwarden vs Avenger, I'd agree that they both have solid arguments, but so far Avenger has done far more work than Greenwarden has. The Regrowth effect is nice, but the body on Greenwarden is quite mediocre. A 5/4 for six is meh. Eternal Witness at least has a fairly cheap cost, despite only being a 2/1 for three. I also don't like that you can't abuse him very well outside of blink and bounce. Maybe he just hasn't found the right deck yet.
Sometimes you're in a situation where you don't want to pitch a spell and you want to keep the gas. Other times, you certainly want to pitch a spell that might not have value for a while to accelerate your tempo. It depends entirely on your matchup and your hand. In that case, maybe you don't need the Mox. It might also be right to use it (I'd probably pitch the E1 for a T1 Geist). But there are far more scenarios where the additional tempo is really valuable than situations where you don't want to pitch a card.
It's been a while since we ran it and I'm open to trying out new things. We recently added in Fellwar Stone as an additional mana rock. I think I'll try Chrome Mox in that slot instead to see how we feel about it now.
I love Chrome Mox, that card gets absurd with Draw 7s.
I also think that Avenger of Zendikar is the most underwhelming of the commonly played green fatties (Primetime, Greenwarden, Hornet Queen, Woodfall Primus, Terastodon).
I'm struggling to find cuts in green. I want to add Sylvan Advocate and Oath of Nissa. I'm fine with cutting Ainok Survivalist but then I'm kinda lost. Nothing else looks like a good cut. Greenwarden of Murasa seems really good but I haven't seen it in action yet. Can I cut that? Other options?
I don't run Channel, Green Sun's Zenith, Tooth and Nail, Nissa, and Vinelasher in my 540 and don't really miss them. Not saying any of them are bad but none of them are essential. I love Greenwarden and can't see it getting cut for a long time.
I've thought about cutting T&N. That's a possibility. With Channel, Eureka, and Natural Order in the cube (not to mention reanimator and Sneak Attack), I'm not sure I need the big sorcery. I'm still open to other ideas.
T&N is probably the most expensive with the most replicable effect. It can be super insane, like when you grab a fatty + zealous conscripts, but it is expensive, and I don't know how well it works with green aggro but I imagine the green-fatty-cheat deck has ample tools with what you have available if T&N got the cut.
The fatties I run are primarily for decks that will cheat them out. Terastodon and his buds are not usually hardcast. Generally, they get reanimated or Eureka'ed into play.
Regarding the green fatties, I understand that they can also be used in non-ramp, fatty cheating decks. But you may not need as many as you run now.
We run less in a slightly larger cube. But we also enjoy that you have to fight for fatties and have to pick them relatively high (a couple years ago, we had some more 7+ mana creatures in the cube, and they regularly wheeled to the drafters who wanted them, giving them "free" picks, which we found unsatisfying).
I like the idea of fighting for them in draft. What would be your cut in order to make that happen?
Not a hijack at all. This is an interesting discussion.
Avenger is not in my cube. It was replaced by Greenwarden of Murasa. I must've missed that in the OP when I last updated.
I love the Eldrazi titans in Sneak/Eureka/S&T. They are the best targets for those decks. Plus, new Ulamog is also good for reanimator. That said, I'm not sure I need them both. It's one of the things I'm going to watch for in my drafts (which happen really infrequently because going to work and school at the same time blows chunks.).
I also favor having a couple more fatties than might be needed because I usually draft with six people (rarely 8), so I need to make sure that that subset of my cube has enough cards to support the various archetypes.
Black really needed more 2-drops for aggro and I think these are the best ones I wasn't running. Glad we are getting at least one more in SOI. I keep missing eBay auctions for Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. When I finally get one, it will take the place of Priest of the Blood Rite.
I was reluctant to make this swap because Sphere is so good. Mage tore it up in the one draft night we've had since adding it. I think it's pretty clearly in the top 3, if not top 2, Azorius cards.
- Uktabi Orangutan
+ Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Holding off on the addition of Hedron Archive. I'll see what my group wants to do.
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- Triskelion
- Thran Dynamo
+ Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
+ Hedron Archive
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Looking through your list on CubeTutor, I noticed some cards you're not running that have been great for us. There are more, but I know you're in a smaller list (by 100 cards) than me so some of my "awesome" pet cards (*ahem* POX) won't make the cut, so I won't mention those. However, I'm curious about your thoughts on these cards and why you're not running them.
Whirler Rogue
Treasure Cruise
Avenger of Zendikar
Hangarback Walker
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
I assume that the two blue cards are simply due to a space factor. Cruise may not be needed alongside Dig Through Time in a 450 list. Is Avenger just not needed with the other big green guys? I prefer him to Greenwarden of Murasa for what it's worth. And I can only assume that Hangarback and Ugin are out due to their current high price tag.
Anyway, thanks for the input, man. Cheers!
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Chrome Mox gets run in aggro here pretty regularly. I'll also run it in a Tinker deck as a 0 cost artifact to feed to the Tinker. It's not stellar, but it's solid.
I think those blue cards are awesome but blue is just too tight at 450. Cruise actually interests me less than Rogue, just because I have Fof, Dig, and Recall already. Rogue could come in. I bought a foil to have on deck.
I like Avenger a lot, but I'm trying out Greenwarden for now. I haven't cubed since that addition so I still need to test it out before I switch back. For curve reasons, I like the Greenwarden better. I still need to see how it plays.
The two colorless cards are out just because of price. They are on my radar for acquisition in the future. I wish I jumped on the Walker when it was still $5.
Cheers,
rant
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I also like Greenwarden more than Avenger. Avenger is cool, but it can be a *****ty creature to cheat out, and sometimes you aren't able to trigger landfall and you have a bunch of useless 0/1s. Green warden doesn't always hit either, but that's usually rare, and I like having more regrowth effects attached to reasonably costed creatures with this guy being reasonable since he has the death trigger as well.
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As to Greenwarden vs Avenger, I'd agree that they both have solid arguments, but so far Avenger has done far more work than Greenwarden has. The Regrowth effect is nice, but the body on Greenwarden is quite mediocre. A 5/4 for six is meh. Eternal Witness at least has a fairly cheap cost, despite only being a 2/1 for three. I also don't like that you can't abuse him very well outside of blink and bounce. Maybe he just hasn't found the right deck yet.
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I also think that Avenger of Zendikar is the most underwhelming of the commonly played green fatties (Primetime, Greenwarden, Hornet Queen, Woodfall Primus, Terastodon).
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I've thought about cutting T&N. That's a possibility. With Channel, Eureka, and Natural Order in the cube (not to mention reanimator and Sneak Attack), I'm not sure I need the big sorcery. I'm still open to other ideas.
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I like Leap a lot. It's not in danger yet.
I'm giving you feedback in your cube thread.
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They do get hardcast, but not as frequently as they are cheated out.
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I like the idea of fighting for them in draft. What would be your cut in order to make that happen?
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Avenger is not in my cube. It was replaced by Greenwarden of Murasa. I must've missed that in the OP when I last updated.
I love the Eldrazi titans in Sneak/Eureka/S&T. They are the best targets for those decks. Plus, new Ulamog is also good for reanimator. That said, I'm not sure I need them both. It's one of the things I'm going to watch for in my drafts (which happen really infrequently because going to work and school at the same time blows chunks.).
I also favor having a couple more fatties than might be needed because I usually draft with six people (rarely 8), so I need to make sure that that subset of my cube has enough cards to support the various archetypes.
Cheers,
rant
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- Pain lands
+ Manlands
(All guilds are now Dual/Shock/Fetch/Manland except Selesnya, which runs Horizon Canopy over the manland)
-Master of the Feast
-Bane of the Living
+Pain Seer
+Dauthi Horror
Black really needed more 2-drops for aggro and I think these are the best ones I wasn't running. Glad we are getting at least one more in SOI. I keep missing eBay auctions for Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. When I finally get one, it will take the place of Priest of the Blood Rite.
-Ainok Survivalist
-Tooth and Nail
+Oath of Nissa
+Sylvan Advocate
Had to make room for these two somehow and the cut cards seemed the most redundant.
-Detention Sphere
+Reflector Mage
I was reluctant to make this swap because Sphere is so good. Mage tore it up in the one draft night we've had since adding it. I think it's pretty clearly in the top 3, if not top 2, Azorius cards.
-Sarkhan Unbroken
+Brutal Hordechief
Not sure about this switch. It seems like a lateral move more than anything. At least Hordechief goes in more decks.
Cheers,
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Edit: Never posted my SOI changes, so OP is out of date. Use the Cube Tutor link please.
Cheers,
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Additions:
Cuts
Comments and collective criticism always welcome.
Cheers,
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