What was the issue with Cavalier of Gales? I cut Morphling from my 555 to make room for him, but haven't had a chance to get a draft in since that swap.
It's only good if you give it all the tools it needs to function as a combo card, and it has more of them now than ever. It's powerful in an environment that fully supports it, and it's not if you don't.
Hey Wtwlf! I'm going to raise my cube from 540 to 630 and support Storm and Persist combo. While looking over what all I wanted to add in green I saw Search for Tomorrow in my on deck stuff. Was it ever considered for your storm package?
Ya, it's an okay card but I think it's relatively weak for storm. It's hard to get the timing right, and not quite explosive enough to propel a storm turn when it comes off suspend on curve.
First of all, i'm a big fan of your cube since more than 6 years, thanks for everything so far !
I have a question about 'Banning cards in powered Cube'
I know the meaning of "powered" but > I used to play with :
- Ancestral Recall
- Mana drain
- TimeWalk
The problem is that this 3 cards are way too strong that everybody is running blue no matter what,
hopping to get one of this 3 cards. You gonna first pick this card almost no matterwhat deck or color you play, and play them even if you run a monored deck (maybe not mana drain, but you will have to counter pick it at least).
I used to think it was a problem, you almost can't comeback from someone who has one of these three cards in starting hand.
I mean, with tinker, reanimator, channel, you need a good openning hand to make crazy things, or it take a few time to screw you down,
but here the card are too strong by themself (according to me and my play group).
I wanted your opinion about that since a long time, since i'll rework my cube as yours with Storm and maybe combo, I would be so thankfull if you can share your thoughts about those cards !
They're powerful cards; they create the kinds of experiences we want, which are powerful and explosive ones. Most decks can either create broken plays, execute broken strategies or cast broken cards. But they're far from unbeatable.
If you and your playgroup don't like them, don't play them. We love the cards and the experiences they provide, so they're obviously cards we want to continue to play.
Thraben Inspector -> Venerable Knight
Containment Priest -> Charming Prince
Journey to Nowhere -> History of Benalia
Blue
Impulse -> Brazen Borrower
Opt -> Whirler Rogue
Black
Night’s Whisper -> Murderous Rider
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet -> Rankle, Master of Pranks
Red
Mogg War Marshal -> Embereth Shieldbreaker
Bloodrage Brawler -> Robber of the Rich
Experimental Frenzy -> Bonecrusher Giant
Manic Vandal -> Castle Embereth
Green
Primal Command -> Gilded Goose
Wickerbough Elder -> Questing Beast
Shared Summons -> Once Upon a Time
Duskwatch Recruiter -> Oath of Nissa
Curse of Predation -> The Great Henge
Guild
Sarkhan Vol -> Grumgully, the Generous
Thousand-Year Storm -> The Royal Scions
How is Prankle performing for you? I run a 450 with a moderately heavy zombie archetype in black and I was looking at my 4CC slots and had no idea what to cut for him and read his creature type like 50 times hoping I was wrong and that he was a secret Zed. I was leaning very heavily towards Kalitas being the cut as well which is why I ask. A similar thing happened with Questing Beast but midrange green feels easier to mash goodstuffs into in general. Long story short though, I'm going up to 540 so this question is almost moot.
Finally, I read your Top 20 as I always do when considering my changes and was wondering if you had a chance to fire off Once Upon a Time yet? I'm currently running it and Arkbow and I don't think anyone's had a chance to shoot the Bow so I'm having difficulties evaluating that sort of ability.
Thanks!
PS: Every time I see your SW:CCG cubes I want to dig my old cards out but the true challenge is teaching someone else how to play that game.
Prankle is sweet, and performs well in multiple black archetypes. I think it's a safe addition over Kalitas.
I like Once Upon a Time, and it plays great and feels great ...in the decks that can play it. My hesitation with those kinds of cards is that the shells that can afford to play them are somewhat limited. But in most green decks, the creature/land count is high enough, and unless your deck is built around critical noncreature cards, it's safe to play. Great in everything that can play it, and it feels pretty gross when it's cast for free.
How is Prankle performing for you? I run a 450 with a moderately heavy zombie archetype in black and I was looking at my 4CC slots and had no idea what to cut for him and read his creature type like 50 times hoping I was wrong and that he was a secret Zed. I was leaning very heavily towards Kalitas being the cut as well which is why I ask. A similar thing happened with Questing Beast but midrange green feels easier to mash goodstuffs into in general. Long story short though, I'm going up to 540 so this question is almost moot.
Finally, I read your Top 20 as I always do when considering my changes and was wondering if you had a chance to fire off Once Upon a Time yet? I'm currently running it and Arkbow and I don't think anyone's had a chance to shoot the Bow so I'm having difficulties evaluating that sort of ability.
Thanks!
PS: Every time I see your SW:CCG cubes I want to dig my old cards out but the true challenge is teaching someone else how to play that game.
Teaching someone to play the SW:CCG is a cakewalk compared to teaching someone to play the Middle Earth (ME:CCG) that came out about the same time by I.C.E. Lol
That one is a true headache!
Yes it is. I've played that game too, and it was a mess compared to Star Wars. SWCCG isn't particularly complicated once you understand attrition. I still think that SWCCG has the best core mechanics of any card game ever made.
Have you considered cutting reanimator as an archetype out of your cube?
What I been noticing with the reanimator archetype is the traditional fatty cheat archetype has been a lot stronger when the creatures hit the table and require alot fewer cards (i.e. Eldrazi, progenitus)
- Natural Order -> Progenitus
- Sneak Attack/ Through the breach (Show and tell is kinda bad but it does the job)
- Arcane Artisan, QuickSilver Amulet
- Tinker, Eureka, ShellDock Isle, Dream Halls,
- Flash (if you're interested in the etb trigger like Sundering Titan or a one shot effect like Grishelbrand)
- Similarly, hard ramping/ accelerating into these creatures with Hide Tide Combo, Channel, Irencrag Feat, Seathing Song or Heart beat etc from traditional storm cards ramping into fatty cheats have been easier.
- This can also be setup using Mind's Desire into an Eldrazi which happens frequently.
Similarly, I noticed the reanimator archetype requires three distinct pieces to setup and drafting all three pieces is difficult (not to mention alot of these cards do not work well in other archetypes)
Part 2:
I been considering restructuring my cube based on your template to move back off the reanimator archetype and more towards a recursion/ zombie archetype that could work well with Braids, Smokestack, Yawgmoth or potentially with Green to become more of a Black-Green Delirium/ graveyard recursion archetype (Cutting several reanimator support cards).
- Removing some green aggro cards (as black will be more aggressive) and trying to support a black-green graveyard theme deck with Threshold, Grave recursion etc.
- Removing some red aggro element one drops (black will have alot more zombies one drops) to support Big Red/ Mud Archetypes?
This is just something I been thinking about alot recently.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Part 1) No, I haven't. Reanimator is still extremely competitive and is both deep and consistent. I will not be removing it from the cube, nor do I have even the slightest desire to do so. And I disagree about the pieces not being good in other archetypes. If anything, the opposite is true. Reanimation spells are playable in random goodstuff decks. Discard outlets are good in a variety of shells. Reanimator's monsters are valuable in ramp and control (and even as midrange curve toppers) much more frequently than the super titans are. I think it's the fatty cheating deck that uses the more polarizing and parasitic cards.
Part 2) I don't want to remove any of those cards. I can have my cake and eat it too. The Braids/Yawgmoth deck is fantastic. Big red decks are very successful. I have no desire to remove support for my aggro decks to make other archetypes that are already successful better.
It sounds like it's something you want for your cube. If that's the case, go for it. But it's not something I want or need in the slightest.
Part 1) No, I haven't. Reanimator is still extremely competitive and is both deep and consistent. I will not be removing it from the cube, nor do I have even the slightest desire to do so. And I disagree about the pieces not being good in other archetypes. If anything, the opposite is true. Reanimation spells are playable in random goodstuff decks. Discard outlets are good in a variety of shells. Reanimator's monsters are valuable in ramp and control (and even as midrange curve toppers) much more frequently than the super titans are. I think it's the fatty cheating deck that uses the more polarizing and parasitic cards.
Part 2) I don't want to remove any of those cards. I can have my cake and eat it too. The Braids/Yawgmoth deck is fantastic. Big red decks are very successful. I have no desire to remove support for my aggro decks to make other archetypes that are already successful better.
It sounds like it's something you want for your cube. If that's the case, go for it. But it's not something I want or need in the slightest.
That makes sense. I think its more that I been struggling drafting reanimator.
Do you have cube drafts with good reanimator lists?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
My other question is have you tried pushing a more zombie tribal theme similar to humans?
On the other hand, I think I understand the reanimator deck alot better now:
You need 3-4 Discard Outlets, 3-4 Reanimation spells, 3-4 Fatties and preferably some tutors to help find the combo pieces. I'm going to actually proxy up this list in particular (https://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/1182931)
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Prior to 720 size increase I viewed your Cube as hyper-tuned for 'competitive' Cubing with only a small number of pet cards (cough, Eternal Dragon, cough), but I noticed that when you went to 720 you decided to include quite a few unconventional choices. Did your Cube philosophy change a bit to prioritize fun/different strategies over max competitive slots, or do you feel that most of your unconventional choices are optimal for competitive Cube play? Examples include persist combo package, Mana Flare archetype, and individual cards like Battle Screech, Puppeteer Clique, and Elvish Piper (just to name a few). Thanks in advance!
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
What's your view on Time Vault at this point?
I saw it's in your cube and you rated it as the 8th best colorless card in the Rankings Project.
However, in the Time Vault combo thread from some years earlier you were not really sold on Time Vault combo at the 360 powered level at least.
What's your view now - do you think this is a 360 powered card worth adding?
I would guess it's a miss for my cube because I don't run Tezzeret the Seeker, Ral Zarek or Manifold Key so the best thing you can do it Pestermite it to get a single time walk.
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/articles-podcasts-and-guides/814381-set-p-review-my-top-20-throne-of-eldraine-cards
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
First of all, i'm a big fan of your cube since more than 6 years, thanks for everything so far !
I have a question about 'Banning cards in powered Cube'
I know the meaning of "powered" but > I used to play with :
- Ancestral Recall
- Mana drain
- TimeWalk
The problem is that this 3 cards are way too strong that everybody is running blue no matter what,
hopping to get one of this 3 cards. You gonna first pick this card almost no matterwhat deck or color you play, and play them even if you run a monored deck (maybe not mana drain, but you will have to counter pick it at least).
I used to think it was a problem, you almost can't comeback from someone who has one of these three cards in starting hand.
I mean, with tinker, reanimator, channel, you need a good openning hand to make crazy things, or it take a few time to screw you down,
but here the card are too strong by themself (according to me and my play group).
I wanted your opinion about that since a long time, since i'll rework my cube as yours with Storm and maybe combo, I would be so thankfull if you can share your thoughts about those cards !
Regards from France.
If you and your playgroup don't like them, don't play them. We love the cards and the experiences they provide, so they're obviously cards we want to continue to play.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
White
Thraben Inspector -> Venerable Knight
Containment Priest -> Charming Prince
Journey to Nowhere -> History of Benalia
Blue
Impulse -> Brazen Borrower
Opt -> Whirler Rogue
Black
Night’s Whisper -> Murderous Rider
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet -> Rankle, Master of Pranks
Red
Mogg War Marshal -> Embereth Shieldbreaker
Bloodrage Brawler -> Robber of the Rich
Experimental Frenzy -> Bonecrusher Giant
Manic Vandal -> Castle Embereth
Green
Primal Command -> Gilded Goose
Wickerbough Elder -> Questing Beast
Shared Summons -> Once Upon a Time
Duskwatch Recruiter -> Oath of Nissa
Curse of Predation -> The Great Henge
Guild
Sarkhan Vol -> Grumgully, the Generous
Thousand-Year Storm -> The Royal Scions
Colorless
Scroll Rack -> Fabled Passage
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
How is Prankle performing for you? I run a 450 with a moderately heavy zombie archetype in black and I was looking at my 4CC slots and had no idea what to cut for him and read his creature type like 50 times hoping I was wrong and that he was a secret Zed. I was leaning very heavily towards Kalitas being the cut as well which is why I ask. A similar thing happened with Questing Beast but midrange green feels easier to mash goodstuffs into in general. Long story short though, I'm going up to 540 so this question is almost moot.
Finally, I read your Top 20 as I always do when considering my changes and was wondering if you had a chance to fire off Once Upon a Time yet? I'm currently running it and Arkbow and I don't think anyone's had a chance to shoot the Bow so I'm having difficulties evaluating that sort of ability.
Thanks!
PS: Every time I see your SW:CCG cubes I want to dig my old cards out but the true challenge is teaching someone else how to play that game.
I like Once Upon a Time, and it plays great and feels great ...in the decks that can play it. My hesitation with those kinds of cards is that the shells that can afford to play them are somewhat limited. But in most green decks, the creature/land count is high enough, and unless your deck is built around critical noncreature cards, it's safe to play. Great in everything that can play it, and it feels pretty gross when it's cast for free.
And ya, the SWCCG cube rocks.
Thanks for commenting!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Teaching someone to play the SW:CCG is a cakewalk compared to teaching someone to play the Middle Earth (ME:CCG) that came out about the same time by I.C.E. Lol
That one is a true headache!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Have you considered cutting reanimator as an archetype out of your cube?
What I been noticing with the reanimator archetype is the traditional fatty cheat archetype has been a lot stronger when the creatures hit the table and require alot fewer cards (i.e. Eldrazi, progenitus)
- Natural Order -> Progenitus
- Sneak Attack/ Through the breach (Show and tell is kinda bad but it does the job)
- Arcane Artisan, QuickSilver Amulet
- Tinker, Eureka, ShellDock Isle, Dream Halls,
- Flash (if you're interested in the etb trigger like Sundering Titan or a one shot effect like Grishelbrand)
- Similarly, hard ramping/ accelerating into these creatures with Hide Tide Combo, Channel, Irencrag Feat, Seathing Song or Heart beat etc from traditional storm cards ramping into fatty cheats have been easier.
- This can also be setup using Mind's Desire into an Eldrazi which happens frequently.
Similarly, I noticed the reanimator archetype requires three distinct pieces to setup and drafting all three pieces is difficult (not to mention alot of these cards do not work well in other archetypes)
Part 2:
I been considering restructuring my cube based on your template to move back off the reanimator archetype and more towards a recursion/ zombie archetype that could work well with Braids, Smokestack, Yawgmoth or potentially with Green to become more of a Black-Green Delirium/ graveyard recursion archetype (Cutting several reanimator support cards).
- Removing some green aggro cards (as black will be more aggressive) and trying to support a black-green graveyard theme deck with Threshold, Grave recursion etc.
- Removing some red aggro element one drops (black will have alot more zombies one drops) to support Big Red/ Mud Archetypes?
This is just something I been thinking about alot recently.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Part 2) I don't want to remove any of those cards. I can have my cake and eat it too. The Braids/Yawgmoth deck is fantastic. Big red decks are very successful. I have no desire to remove support for my aggro decks to make other archetypes that are already successful better.
It sounds like it's something you want for your cube. If that's the case, go for it. But it's not something I want or need in the slightest.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
That makes sense. I think its more that I been struggling drafting reanimator.
Do you have cube drafts with good reanimator lists?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
https://cubecobra.com/cube/deck/5d9b12cd1c8b8d64fdf1e8ee
https://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/1182931
https://cubecobra.com/cube/deck/5d9b177f1c8b8d64fdf1eca7
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
On the other hand, I think I understand the reanimator deck alot better now:
You need 3-4 Discard Outlets, 3-4 Reanimation spells, 3-4 Fatties and preferably some tutors to help find the combo pieces. I'm going to actually proxy up this list in particular (https://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/1182931)
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Let me know how reanimator does for you if you focus it down as more of a combo strategy.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Prior to 720 size increase I viewed your Cube as hyper-tuned for 'competitive' Cubing with only a small number of pet cards (cough, Eternal Dragon, cough), but I noticed that when you went to 720 you decided to include quite a few unconventional choices. Did your Cube philosophy change a bit to prioritize fun/different strategies over max competitive slots, or do you feel that most of your unconventional choices are optimal for competitive Cube play? Examples include persist combo package, Mana Flare archetype, and individual cards like Battle Screech, Puppeteer Clique, and Elvish Piper (just to name a few). Thanks in advance!