Nope, my philosophy is still exactly the same. All cards are included because I think they're the most competitive ones for the slot, given that the choice fits your cube maxim. I do think that every cube should have some unique slots dedicated to making the experience fun for your playgroup, so "pet" cards are encouraged as long as they see play and the playgroup continues to have success with them.
My opinion on Oko is exactly the same as it was. And as it's been discussed in my article/thread, and in the Oko thread. And on Twitter.
Card is good. If you have room, play it. If your other Simic cards are too important, don't cut them for Oko, since he's just a good card & isn't needed to bolster any specific strategies.
Nope, my philosophy is still exactly the same. All cards are included because I think they're the most competitive ones for the slot, given that the choice fits your cube maxim. I do think that every cube should have some unique slots dedicated to making the experience fun for your playgroup, so "pet" cards are encouraged as long as they see play and the playgroup continues to have success with them.
To further support your decision, (not that you need one to design your own cube).
Correct me if I'm wrong but those cards struck me as archetype support more so than "pet cards".
A sneak attack deck would infinitely prefer a card like elvish piper to the majority of cards in the cube.
Even if it's lower power level in a vacuum than some cards that might miss your cube, it has a clear roll it's performing.
This is really minor but I noticed that Tormenting Voice isn't in your cube. The card seems pretty good in a lot of combo based archetypes. Is it just a bit too weak to make it into the cube?
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This is really minor but I noticed that Tormenting Voice isn't in your cube. The card seems pretty good in a lot of combo based archetypes. Is it just a bit too weak to make it into the cube?
Thrill of Possibility is a strictly better version of that card, and I don't run that one either...
Oko has been testing well. I really like both Nissa and Krasis, but with the redundancy at the XGU casting costs, I figured I could cut one of them for Oko for the sake of variety. For now, I'll be giving Nissa's spot to Oko and seeing how I feel about him vs Krasis vs the lack of Nissa in the long run.
This is really minor but I noticed that Tormenting Voice isn't in your cube. The card seems pretty good in a lot of combo based archetypes. Is it just a bit too weak to make it into the cube?
Thrill of Possibility is a strictly better version of that card, and I don't run that one either...
Is there a reason?
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I don't think it's good enough. I think 2 mana is too much for a discard-first card parity rummage effect. Chart a Course is the industry standard for what this kind of effect should be doing in cube.
Hey! Appreciate all your work and input as always!
I heard Oko could turn opponent’s mox or whatever into a 3/3 activating Oath of Druid, and I was immediately sold.
An all round good stuff which can do something like that is clearly a staple!
Oko > Nissa IMO!
First I want to let you know that the amount of work you put in this cube is insane, truly appreciate what you're doing.
I started building my version of your cube when it was at 540 cards and was done right around the time that you expand it to 720, now I'm about 15 cards shy (waiting to find someone who wants to trade away a Wrenn and Six and Blightsteel Colossus). I'm going to start running sanctioned event at one of my LGS. I was wondering if you had any tips when playing with strangers in regard to presenting the cube, archetypes and also preventing theft? I'm already proxying the power and the duals and I'm thinking about getting alts done on some of the rarer stuff (any tips on atls for foil cards?). And also any recommendations for sanctioned events.
I've been using the cubamajig packs, which is not too bad if I draft the cube once a week and people seemed to really enjoying the feeling of opening a pack. You ever tried them?
Thanks for commenting, and I'm glad you enjoy the cube.
First off, I don't think you can run sanctioned events with proxied cards. It'll be up to the head judge, but I don't think Wizards will support events with proxied cards. There are stories of LGSs losing their license through Wizards because of proxies, so be careful with that. I don't use any proxies, so I don't have any advice on that front.
Security is tough. I only cube with people I trust, so I don't run into any issues there. But cubing without sideboards can be helpful for security; once a 40-card deck is built, that's all players have to keep track of. People don't have to worry about managing 2 piles of cards, and stuff doesn't get left around. Either that, or have each player turn all 45 cube cards back into you when they're done with the event. Count the cube at the end of each draft, so if something is missing, you can narrow it down to a certain # of players.
My playgroup wasn't interested in the cubbamajig packs. Plus, we often use 18-20 card packs of double-sleeved cards, which don't fit anyways.
Make sure that the drafters know it's powered, and that combo strategies are supported. They should know that both generic theater decks and archetypes can be drafted.
I just finished reading a few threads from a few years ago in regard to the proxy issue, your opinion back then was a bit more of a "who cares" since the points don't count toward GPs and there's no prize support from WoTC. I think they still have the "casual event" category. In any case I don't really need to sanction the event as there's no value to that really, but I will support the LGS and we're probably all going to be buying a pack or two toward a prize pool.
On another topic, is there an artist you would recommend to do alt to some of the cards? and how much do you usually pay per commission?
Also what your storage solution now since you expanded to 720 ?
The Cubevault looks nice, I currently use the Big Black Box, the format is great, everything fits nicely along with 250 basic lands, token and dice box, with a bit of room to spare, I think I'll have a box of cards that I want to test/swap from draft to draft.
For the LGS I am upfront about the proxies, so far it's not been an issue as it's aimed at casual event. Plus the majority of stores that have vintage event usually will allow a certain number of proxies to get greater number. Heck I've been to a few place that allowed a number of proxies for Modern sanctioned event...
hey! if this has been talked about earlier in the thread (or better yet if you've written an article about it) forgive me - wanted to ask you about the inclusion of storm and persist combo in your cube. I remember you had omitted those packages in the past for various reasons including not liking the 'I win' button quality of those combos. I've always shared that preference so I wanted to ask how it's been playing for your group, if it's been fun? Also curious if for you it reflects a philosophical change, a desire to shake things up, or is it a consequence of moving up to 720? Thanks much!
hey! if this has been talked about earlier in the thread (or better yet if you've written an article about it) forgive me - wanted to ask you about the inclusion of storm and persist combo in your cube. I remember you had omitted those packages in the past for various reasons including not liking the 'I win' button quality of those combos. I've always shared that preference so I wanted to ask how it's been playing for your group, if it's been fun? Also curious if for you it reflects a philosophical change, a desire to shake things up, or is it a consequence of moving up to 720? Thanks much!
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Just so it doesn't come as a tremendous shock when it happens, there's going to be another significant change to the cube structure happening in the near-ish future. It will cover a lot of changes, including an increase in size to 720, incorporating another new draft method to increase the pool % used when drafting (part of what facilitates the changes) and the new pool of cards is largely going to be focussed on combo play. You'll see cards that support the Kiki/Twin combo, cards that support Storm, Vault combo, Persist combo, some infinite mana combos, Grave/Dance Annihilator creature combos and a few others. I have players in my playgroup interested in exploring that design space, and if an increase in size and modification to draft methodology can facilitate the real estate and the logistics required to allow those strategies with less of an impact on the existing cube pool, I'm open to testing that configuration. It'll take a while to iron out the details, but I just wanted to put everyone on notice now that it's definitely going to happen. I have a lot of guest drafters and a lot of other folks that are interesting in playing combo decks and wondering why that element is excluded from my cube experience. Historically it's been in large part due to small draft pool % issues and the fact that they take up too much real estate in the cube. If I can solve both of those problems at the same time, I should be able to give combo a good chance to be competitive without hurting the validity of my current strategies.
Relic Warder and Arkbow are interesting choices. The consensus used to be that the WW mana cost wasn't worth the ability. Did you just feel the need for another piece of art/ench hate?
What are you trying to accomplish with the Arkbow? I'm interested in your thoughts.
The Relic-Warder is a combo card. Sac outlet + LRW + Animate Dead effect = infinite sac/etb/death triggers. It's playable in WW, but mainly in there as another white combo.
Arkbow gives green another discard outlet, another reason for the artifact.dec to dip into green, more effects to increase the consistency of cheap creature-based combo decks, another tool for Bant Flash and another combo tool for Squee.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Card is good. If you have room, play it. If your other Simic cards are too important, don't cut them for Oko, since he's just a good card & isn't needed to bolster any specific strategies.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
To further support your decision, (not that you need one to design your own cube).
Correct me if I'm wrong but those cards struck me as archetype support more so than "pet cards".
A sneak attack deck would infinitely prefer a card like elvish piper to the majority of cards in the cube.
Even if it's lower power level in a vacuum than some cards that might miss your cube, it has a clear roll it's performing.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Thrill of Possibility is a strictly better version of that card, and I don't run that one either...
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Is there a reason?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
I heard Oko could turn opponent’s mox or whatever into a 3/3 activating Oath of Druid, and I was immediately sold.
An all round good stuff which can do something like that is clearly a staple!
Oko > Nissa IMO!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
I started building my version of your cube when it was at 540 cards and was done right around the time that you expand it to 720, now I'm about 15 cards shy (waiting to find someone who wants to trade away a Wrenn and Six and Blightsteel Colossus). I'm going to start running sanctioned event at one of my LGS. I was wondering if you had any tips when playing with strangers in regard to presenting the cube, archetypes and also preventing theft? I'm already proxying the power and the duals and I'm thinking about getting alts done on some of the rarer stuff (any tips on atls for foil cards?). And also any recommendations for sanctioned events.
I've been using the cubamajig packs, which is not too bad if I draft the cube once a week and people seemed to really enjoying the feeling of opening a pack. You ever tried them?
First off, I don't think you can run sanctioned events with proxied cards. It'll be up to the head judge, but I don't think Wizards will support events with proxied cards. There are stories of LGSs losing their license through Wizards because of proxies, so be careful with that. I don't use any proxies, so I don't have any advice on that front.
Security is tough. I only cube with people I trust, so I don't run into any issues there. But cubing without sideboards can be helpful for security; once a 40-card deck is built, that's all players have to keep track of. People don't have to worry about managing 2 piles of cards, and stuff doesn't get left around. Either that, or have each player turn all 45 cube cards back into you when they're done with the event. Count the cube at the end of each draft, so if something is missing, you can narrow it down to a certain # of players.
My playgroup wasn't interested in the cubbamajig packs. Plus, we often use 18-20 card packs of double-sleeved cards, which don't fit anyways.
Make sure that the drafters know it's powered, and that combo strategies are supported. They should know that both generic theater decks and archetypes can be drafted.
Cheers, and happy cubing!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
On another topic, is there an artist you would recommend to do alt to some of the cards? and how much do you usually pay per commission?
Also what your storage solution now since you expanded to 720 ?
A lot of my go-to artists are retired now, but you can't go wrong with Poxy14. I think he's booked until 2020, but he always does top-notch work.
Luckily, my 720 still fits in my CubbeVault!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
For the LGS I am upfront about the proxies, so far it's not been an issue as it's aimed at casual event. Plus the majority of stores that have vintage event usually will allow a certain number of proxies to get greater number. Heck I've been to a few place that allowed a number of proxies for Modern sanctioned event...
Have fun!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
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My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Adanto Vanguard -> Leonin Relic-Warder
Thornling -> Terastodon
Collected Company -> Vivien's Arkbow
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
What are you trying to accomplish with the Arkbow? I'm interested in your thoughts.
Cheers,
rant
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Arkbow gives green another discard outlet, another reason for the artifact.dec to dip into green, more effects to increase the consistency of cheap creature-based combo decks, another tool for Bant Flash and another combo tool for Squee.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
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