It'a more interesting than most of the Swords are, and the cheaper equip is nice. I've been surprised with how much incidental tribal overlap there is in the cube. I rarely need to put it into a specific deck in order to have most creatures in my deck have 3-4 other creatures of the same type floating around. And having a threat automatically replace itself when it dies is a powerful mechanic.
Hey Wtwlf, can you tell me a bit about how Aristocrats has been playing out in your cube? I run a tighter 400 list (powered, but also featuring Un cards), and I am strongly considering adding Aristocrats to give black aggro a stronger identity. Currently I'm planning to add Blood Artist, Bloodghast, Yawgmoth, Thran Physician, and Carrion Feeder. Are there any other glaring archetype cards I'm missing (ex. Goblin Bombardment, Zulaport Cuttthroat, Judith, the Scourge Diva) that you think could make the cut at 400?
Does Yawgmoth even make the cut at 400? Does Vampire Nighthawk still make it these days? I recently cut Hypnotic Specter and the decision still stings!
This aristocrats package is really making me rethink everything about my black section! I'm taking a second look at old school faves like The Abyss, Contamination, and Attrition... would love to hear your thoughts!
Thanks,
Winter
PS. I think some of your photobucket links are broken on your first post!
Honestly, I don't think I'd support Aristocrats at 400 cards. Yawgmoth is good enough, but I don't think the rest of the tools are.
Nighthawk and Specter are both solid cards, but neither are must-includes; especially not at 400.
Aristocrats functions better off the cards that are organically good enough to include. Powerful sac outlets and recursive threats. The Blood Artist effects and the 2nd tier sac outlets add depth once the cube gets bigger, but I don't think they're necessary.
I think photobucket is just down at the moment. I can't log in at all. My account is in good standing though, so I don't know why the images are broken...
Thanks for the feedback! I ended up deciding to give Aristocrats a shot, albeit with the bare minimum of parasitic cards - really just Blood Artist. I think your comment about Yawgmoth being strong enough for 400 tipped me over. With Yawgmoth and Blood Artist, and all the rest of the existing cubeable cards (stax, recursive creatures, bitterblossom, etc.), I think we will see Aristocrats come together every once in a while.
Ya, I love that card, but I figured with access to Reflector Mage, Hostage Taker and now Brazen Borrower, it was likely my most redundant blue creature, and I really wanted to try out the Ruins/Emry + Mindslaver package.
However, I was wondering about a question regarding aggro! I'm cutting my cube size down from 540 to 360, and I enjoy having a healthy Aggro package, so I was wondering if there was a minimum for how many 1 drop aggro dudes that you would suggest at that size?
I found the artifact archetype outside of Tinker/ Ramp to be very parasitic in nature and are heavily saturated in blue (which is already a very overstacked color). Do you feel this is the nature? I've been extremely reluctant to add cards like Urza, Emry etc.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
However, I was wondering about a question regarding aggro! I'm cutting my cube size down from 540 to 360, and I enjoy having a healthy Aggro package, so I was wondering if there was a minimum for how many 1 drop aggro dudes that you would suggest at that size?
It really varies too much to put a number on it that will apply universally. You'll just have to tinker with it until you see that it consistently works in practice.
I found the artifact archetype outside of Tinker/ Ramp to be very parasitic in nature and are heavily saturated in blue (which is already a very overstacked color). Do you feel this is the nature? I've been extremely reluctant to add cards like Urza, Emry etc.
It's parasitic in the same way that any archetype you elect to support is parasitic. There are a handful of deck-exclusive cards, but the majority of the inclusions are cards that are good anywhere but become excellent in the artifact.dec.
Emry is a combo card with Mindslaver that happens to be playable in pretty much any artifact shell. Urza is just busted af.
It seems like an extremely parasitic card that is way worse than any reanimation spell
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
It's been solid. Welder/Daretti effects are powerful in the right shells, and I like having access to the redundancy. While it's worse than some of the black reanimation spells, I can access the effect without black mana, and the exchange isn't vulnerable to being interacted with once the swap occurs.
Is there any way ATM to view your cube the way it was when it was 450 or 540? I'm thinking of including green aggro in unpowered 540 and just wanted to have a reference for numbers and what I can afford to include in terms of space.
Sorry, I don't think there is. But if you ask around, there might be some other 540 cubes out there that support green aggro and they can give you some numbbers...
Deep Analysis has been on our watch list so that we don’t let our nostalgia bias overlook it. Do you think it’s too slow for 2020, or simply no other cuts?
No other cuts. I still love the card, and I'm unsure about the cut. Both Thassa and the turns package are experimental, and it would be the first card to come back with additional room.
If you go to Cube Tutor and search 'wtwlf' you will get a bunch of cubes where people have copied the cube list over the years, so that may be of help.
Is there any way ATM to view your cube the way it was when it was 450 or 540? I'm thinking of including green aggro in unpowered 540 and just wanted to have a reference for numbers and what I can afford to include in terms of space.
Go look at my cube: https://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/11937 It's not super current, but it was pretty in line with wtwlf123's when I was keeping this list updated.
This list was close to his years ago, just realized it's not super aggro for green as far as lots of 1 drops. I think he supported green aggro better like a year after I stopped updating.
Dang dude, I'm surprised you finally joined our hivemind and cut Deep Analysis. What prompted the change?
Also, I see you dropped Blast Zone and Voracious Hydra, two new-ish cards that were generally pretty well regarded around here when they first dropped. Why do you think they were underperforming?
I hate the Deep Analysis cut, and I can't wait to figure out how to get it back in.
They are both fine cards, but I had to cut something and they felt the most expendable. I don't like the Blast Zone cut either though, so it'll likely be back soon. Hydra too.
Basically, you singled out my three least favorite cuts and the ones most likely to be reintroduced in the future.
Hey wtwlf! Have you had any luck with the extra turns combo deck you incorporated a while back? And since I'm horrible at evaluating cards, are Time Warp and its clones useful in any other types of decks?
I have been having success with that deck! And the Time Warps have been good in a variety of different builds, especially decks like superfriends and spells matters shells, in addition to functioning decently as tempo curve-toppers in decks that are typically ahead on board in the midgame. It probably takes up too much real estate for smaller cubes, but I've had success with it at 720 for now.
For reference, they combo with Panoptic Mirror on their own, combo with Eternal Witness (or even Den Protector sometimes) + a repeatable bounce/flicker effect (plus adequate mana), God-Eternal Kefnet + Jace/Rack/Library and/or Soulfire Grand Master (plus adequate mana). It's been pretty consistent in being able to pair the Warps with at least 1 or more of those combo elements in most Bant/Jeskai shells. Adds another extra use for the Wake/Flare/Heartbeat effects outside of storm too, since both the Witness loops and the SGM loops are pretty mana hungry.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Does Yawgmoth even make the cut at 400? Does Vampire Nighthawk still make it these days? I recently cut Hypnotic Specter and the decision still stings!
This aristocrats package is really making me rethink everything about my black section! I'm taking a second look at old school faves like The Abyss, Contamination, and Attrition... would love to hear your thoughts!
Thanks,
Winter
PS. I think some of your photobucket links are broken on your first post!
Nighthawk and Specter are both solid cards, but neither are must-includes; especially not at 400.
Aristocrats functions better off the cards that are organically good enough to include. Powerful sac outlets and recursive threats. The Blood Artist effects and the 2nd tier sac outlets add depth once the cube gets bigger, but I don't think they're necessary.
I think photobucket is just down at the moment. I can't log in at all. My account is in good standing though, so I don't know why the images are broken...
Thanks!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Battle Screech -> Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Vivid Meadow -> Kor Haven
Man-o'-War -> Emry, Lurker of the Loch
Morphling -> Cavalier of Gales
Vivid Creek -> Academy Ruins
Hypnotic Specter -> Plague Engineer
Contagion -> Wishclaw Talisman
Vivid Marsh -> Bolas's Citadel
Vivid Crag -> Experimental Frenzy
Vivid Grove -> Search for Tomorrow
Nightscape Familiar -> Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Icy Manipulator -> Mindslaver
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
However, I was wondering about a question regarding aggro! I'm cutting my cube size down from 540 to 360, and I enjoy having a healthy Aggro package, so I was wondering if there was a minimum for how many 1 drop aggro dudes that you would suggest at that size?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
It really varies too much to put a number on it that will apply universally. You'll just have to tinker with it until you see that it consistently works in practice.
It's parasitic in the same way that any archetype you elect to support is parasitic. There are a handful of deck-exclusive cards, but the majority of the inclusions are cards that are good anywhere but become excellent in the artifact.dec.
Emry is a combo card with Mindslaver that happens to be playable in pretty much any artifact shell. Urza is just busted af.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
It seems like an extremely parasitic card that is way worse than any reanimation spell
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/articles-podcasts-and-guides/815990-set-p-review-my-top-20-theros-beyond-death-cards
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
White
Fragmentize -> Heliod, Sun-Crowned
Leonin Warleader -> Elspeth, Sun's Nemesis
Kor Haven -> Shatter the Sky
(Declaration in Stone -> Archangel of Thune)
Blue
Deep Analysis -> Thassa, Deep-Dwelling
(Cavalier of Gales -> God-Eternal Kefnet)
(Thirst for Knowledge -> Capture of Jingzhou)
(Treasure Cruise -> Temporal Manipulation)
(Mind's Desire -> Time Warp)
Black
Vampire Nighthawk -> Woe Strider
Red
Hero of Oxid Ridge -> Phoenix of Ash
Trash for Treasure -> Underworld Breach
Green
Voracious Hydra -> Dryad of the Ilysian Grove
Oath of Nissa -> Renata, Called to the Hunt
(Search for Tomorrow -> Spike Feeder)
Multicolor
Spell Queller -> Dream Trawler
(Tasigur, the Golden Fang -> Golos, Tireless Pilgrim)
Colorless
Powder Keg -> Shadowspear
(Blast Zone -> Scroll Rack)
(Sword of War and Peace -> Panoptic Mirror)
CubeCobra will be updated shortly, and CubeTutor will be updated when THB goes live...
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Go look at my cube: https://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/11937 It's not super current, but it was pretty in line with wtwlf123's when I was keeping this list updated.
This list was close to his years ago, just realized it's not super aggro for green as far as lots of 1 drops. I think he supported green aggro better like a year after I stopped updating.
UBR Thraximundar, the Who's Who of Red, Black, and Blue
RWU Zedruu, The Political Player's Personification
URG Animar, The Deck for When You Just Want to Play Creatures
Also, I see you dropped Blast Zone and Voracious Hydra, two new-ish cards that were generally pretty well regarded around here when they first dropped. Why do you think they were underperforming?
My Cube on Cube Tutor
They are both fine cards, but I had to cut something and they felt the most expendable. I don't like the Blast Zone cut either though, so it'll likely be back soon. Hydra too.
Basically, you singled out my three least favorite cuts and the ones most likely to be reintroduced in the future.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
PROMO LAND
Guru Basic
APAC Basic (A)
APAC Basic (B)
APAC Basic (C)
Euro Land Basic (A)
Euro Land Basic (B)
Euro Land Basic (C)
Beta Foil Promo Basic/OG Art Basic
Ice Age Foil Promo Basic
Urza’s Saga Foil Promo Basic
Mercadian Masques Foil Promo Basic
Arena 1996
Arena 2003
Arena 2004
Arena 2005
Arena 2006
MPS 2006/2007
MPS 2007/2008
MPS 2008/2009
MPS 2009/2010
MPS 2010/2011
MPS 2011/2012
2005 Ravnica MPS Guild Land (A)
2005 Ravnica MPS Guild Land (B)
2005 Ravnica MPS Guild Land (C)
2005 Ravnica MPS Guild Land (D)
2018/2019 Ravnica Weekend Guild Land (A)
2018/2019 Ravnica Weekend Guild Land (B)
2018/2019 Ravnica Weekend Guild Land (C)
2018/2019 Ravnica Weekend Guild Land (D)
2017 Standard Showdown Promo (Guay)
2017 Gift Pack Promo (Poole)
2018 Grand Prix Promo (Giancola)
2018 Standard Showdown Promo (Danner)
2019 MagicFest Promo (Burley)
2019 Promo Pack Promo (Various)
2020 MagicFest Promo (De Ro)
FULL-ART LAND
Judge Foil Full-Art Basic
Unglued Basic
Unhinged Basic (Foil)
Unstable Basic (Foil)
Unsanctioned Basic (Foil)
ZEN Textless A (Japanese Foil)
ZEN Textless B (Japanese Foil)
ZEN Textless C (Japanese Foil)
ZEN Textless D (Japanese Foil)
BFZ Textless A (Foil)
BFZ Textless B (Foil)
BFZ Textless C (Foil)
BFZ Textless D (Foil)
Amonkhet Full-Art (Foil)
Hour of Devastation Full-Art (Foil)
Theros Beyond Death (Japanese Foil)
OTHER
Favorite Land Set A
Favorite Land Set B
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Thanks for all you do for the Cube community!
For reference, they combo with Panoptic Mirror on their own, combo with Eternal Witness (or even Den Protector sometimes) + a repeatable bounce/flicker effect (plus adequate mana), God-Eternal Kefnet + Jace/Rack/Library and/or Soulfire Grand Master (plus adequate mana). It's been pretty consistent in being able to pair the Warps with at least 1 or more of those combo elements in most Bant/Jeskai shells. Adds another extra use for the Wake/Flare/Heartbeat effects outside of storm too, since both the Witness loops and the SGM loops are pretty mana hungry.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!