Mana Confluence is actually functionally worse than City of Brass, since the damage from Brass can be prevented with cards such as Harm's Way, ect. I've already added it to my cube.
Lol I'm considering commissioning an alterer to change the rare symbol to uncommon. I have a problem.
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I might as well stick with City, just because it seems more interactive with cards than Confluence (even though I like the art for Confluence as well).
If I end up putting a cycle of rare lands in, I was also thinking of trying to alter the colour of the set symbol or just painting it out completely. Or even just leaving it as is.
Fetches without shocks or revised duals are kinda meh. They fuel delve and threshold, but the actual fixing is generally worse than a check/shock/pain if you can only get basics. I mean, opening hand of mountain plus Caves of Koilos makes for perfect Mardu mana, but mountain plus Marsh Flats forces you to choose which basic you want, with no guarantee that you'll ever see the other.
It's also, what, 200+ bucks for a playset of 10 fetches?
I agree that the fetches seem somewhat mediocre without access the the duals and shocks. I'd go with pain lands first and see how you like it. If you wanted to move up from there, I'd consider the check lands or maybe the filters. I don't think I'd include the shocks/fetches/duals simply because these are the trifecta for rare cubes. Pain lands fit in.
To be fair, brainstorm isn't commonly played in these cubes mostly due to a lack of fetches and treasure cruise has only been merely good instead of format defining
Despite my praise for fetch lands, I too feel that pain lands would be a sensible option for a peasant cube in place of the usual C/U tap lands (KTK gainlands, Guildgates etc).
I do also like the idea of one cycle of checklands, since they don't always come into play tapped provided there is already a basic land out.
This may sound a bit silly, but I'm also trying to keep the price of cards down a bit (cards like Shardless Agent and Ancient Tomb will probably be the most expensive of the cards), so pains or checks would save a fair bit of cash if I add a rare land cycle.
There's not much of a power level difference between the pain lands and the other available c/u lands. The biggest thing is they don't enter tapped, which is exactly what this format needs in fixing. I think you might run into that with the shocks/fetches/duals, but even then you're only adding in lands. It's not like you're adding in a Wrath of God.
So I had an interesting discussion yesterday with one of my group's regular players. He played a five color control deck and did pretty well. He came pretty close to dying against a aggro deck a few times but he managed to win nevertheless. I mentioned maybe adding lands that don't etb tapped to give aggro better fixing but he said if his deck had access to those lands no game would ever have been close. He played only 4-5 basics and as much fix as possible to support his mana base. He did a pretty good job as in all 10 or so game he wasn't color screwed even once. Naturally, all his non-basic lands etb tapped. Because of this he was often only able to play things like Flames of the Firebrand on turn 4. Whereas otherwise he could gave gone T3: Flames -> T4: Skinrender. Therefore, he argued that adding fix that doesn't etb tapped might do more good to 5cc than it would do to aggro. As the main reason I might add rare lands is to give more support to aggro (and this seems the general argument given in this forum as well to do so), what do people think of his argument?
Yeah, definitely not on the level of the ONS/ZEN/KTK fetches, but how about the Rocky Tar Pit or Grixis Panorama cycles? They still get lands out of the deck, and there are cards available to untap as well.
Agreed with Leelue. 5cc control is not a deck that normally comes together. I'm predominantly an aggro player and I realize the value of good fixing in two color aggressive decks. If I'm remotely in Boros aggro and see a Battlefield Forge, I'm taking that over just about any other option. Having good spells in your deck doesn't do you much good if you can't cast them.
I also don't like the Mirage fetches. I ran the UW and UB ones for a while, but they are incredibly slow and not being able to get dual lands hurts them more than you'd think.
To be fair, brainstorm isn't commonly played in these cubes mostly due to a lack of fetches and treasure cruise has only been merely good instead of format defining
This is false. Brainstorm is quite commonly played. While you are correct that it would be a heck of a lot better with fetches in the mix, data from CubeTutor alone show that it's quite popular in peasant.
So I had an interesting discussion yesterday with one of my group's regular players. He played a five color control deck and did pretty well. He came pretty close to dying against a aggro deck a few times but he managed to win nevertheless. I mentioned maybe adding lands that don't etb tapped to give aggro better fixing but he said if his deck had access to those lands no game would ever have been close. He played only 4-5 basics and as much fix as possible to support his mana base. He did a pretty good job as in all 10 or so game he wasn't color screwed even once. Naturally, all his non-basic lands etb tapped. Because of this he was often only able to play things like Flames of the Firebrand on turn 4. Whereas otherwise he could gave gone T3: Flames -> T4: Skinrender. Therefore, he argued that adding fix that doesn't etb tapped might do more good to 5cc than it would do to aggro. As the main reason I might add rare lands is to give more support to aggro (and this seems the general argument given in this forum as well to do so), what do people think of his argument?
This is actually the other concern I've had with adding rare lands. I've drafted four and five color decks a few times, but I also have a pretty huge cube with 55 non-basics dedicated solely to fixing. A few mana rocks and green fetch spells make it pretty easy. It does bear repeating that it's a 720 behemoth though.
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Commonly played (and drafted) by people who are bad at card evaluation, I'd say. Brainstorm minus shuffling is a pretty bad card.
Anyway I've had rare lands (and tri lands) for my entire cube's life, 4-5C foodstuff has never been dominant (maybe won a draft or three but that's certainly not worrisome). Notably, I have ZERO signets, which are perhaps even more important for people who want to draft "pile of midrange stuff" decks.
I suppose that I was talking about us here, phantom. For the peasant cube forum contributors, brainstorm is more often not cubed with.
I should go check that ha but I'm like 90% sure that it's true.
I also agree with calabretto in that I take city of brass real quick in my aggro decks. In my 2man drafts or larger ones I have control over this is a big deal because so many cards get undrafted/burned
I've not cubed with Brainstorm in my peasant list for quite some time. I wouldn't go so far as to call it "bad", but without a multitude of available shuffle effects, it's merely fine. I'd prefer to have a card that gives me higher variance in my draws than one that gives me gas now at a cost of drawing dead later.
It isn't a bad card. It won't be dead, and unless you needed that 1 U mana it's better than drawing whatever the next card of your deck would have been.
It cycles like peer through the depths but with the opportunty for real selection.
But I like a card like impulse better
I should retry impulse
It isn't a bad card. It won't be dead, and unless you needed that 1 U mana it's better than drawing whatever the next card of your deck would have been.
It cycles like peer through the depths but with the opportunty for real selection.
But I like a card like impulse better
I should retry impulse
I am a fan of impulse. I think it deserves a spot in most peasant lists. It digs deep, instant, and it's not limited to a specific card type.
Brainstorm is in my cube but it's far from stellar. I'm just waiting for a U/G/x deck to make use of it with fetches and green ramp. Never seems quite good enough to make the cut, though. It usually just shows up in heavy blue permission decks as a digging tool.
Suggestions for a replacement?
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I have been running curiosity and it's in no danger of being cut. It's a great blend of interactivity, skill, and variance. But it necessitates you having a strong blue aggro section.
I would never play thought scour, portent, or opt.
Telling time is just worse than Impulse. It's only better than it if you want at least 2 of your top 3, and you don't want your 4th card more. Even still, impulse can ship your unwanted 4th.
Which then opens the door for think twice vs telling time. Think twice is a card that I probably have been underrating for a long time. I'd imagine card volume trumps the minor extra selection, which explains why telling time has been a standard staple both times it was printed.
Serum visions is a bad preordain.
Careful study probably has some archetype based reason (cough reanimator?) For calibretto to run it.
Shadow rift is kinda cool in that it is a lava spike with a cantrip. Not sure how worth it that is but it's an interesting comparison that combos well curiosity and tandem lookout. Probably still not worth it.
In a vacuum, brainstorm is better than all of the aforementioned 1 drop instants/sorceries except situational serum visions (the upsides of each are a labyrinth to navigate and weigh. Brainstorm is leagues better on turn 0 and worsens as time goes on for each card serum visions puts on the bottom)
Treasure cruise is good but a totally different card.
Lol I'm considering commissioning an alterer to change the rare symbol to uncommon. I have a problem.
~David Hayden
[420 Peasant Cube] (work in progress)
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/21789
I might as well stick with City, just because it seems more interactive with cards than Confluence (even though I like the art for Confluence as well).
If I end up putting a cycle of rare lands in, I was also thinking of trying to alter the colour of the set symbol or just painting it out completely. Or even just leaving it as is.
- My Sig/Banner Shop -HIATUSIt's also, what, 200+ bucks for a playset of 10 fetches?
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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I do also like the idea of one cycle of check lands, since they don't always come into play tapped provided there is already a basic land out.
This may sound a bit silly, but I'm also trying to keep the price of cards down a bit (cards like Shardless Agent and Ancient Tomb will probably be the most expensive of the cards), so pains or checks would save a fair bit of cash if I add a rare land cycle.
- My Sig/Banner Shop -HIATUS~David Hayden
[420 Peasant Cube] (work in progress)
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430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
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I also don't like the Mirage fetches. I ran the UW and UB ones for a while, but they are incredibly slow and not being able to get dual lands hurts them more than you'd think.
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This is false. Brainstorm is quite commonly played. While you are correct that it would be a heck of a lot better with fetches in the mix, data from CubeTutor alone show that it's quite popular in peasant.
This is actually the other concern I've had with adding rare lands. I've drafted four and five color decks a few times, but I also have a pretty huge cube with 55 non-basics dedicated solely to fixing. A few mana rocks and green fetch spells make it pretty easy. It does bear repeating that it's a 720 behemoth though.
My 720 Peasant Cube
Anyway I've had rare lands (and tri lands) for my entire cube's life, 4-5C foodstuff has never been dominant (maybe won a draft or three but that's certainly not worrisome). Notably, I have ZERO signets, which are perhaps even more important for people who want to draft "pile of midrange stuff" decks.
I should go check that ha but I'm like 90% sure that it's true.
I also agree with calabretto in that I take city of brass real quick in my aggro decks. In my 2man drafts or larger ones I have control over this is a big deal because so many cards get undrafted/burned
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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It cycles like peer through the depths but with the opportunty for real selection.
But I like a card like impulse better
I should retry impulse
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I am a fan of impulse. I think it deserves a spot in most peasant lists. It digs deep, instant, and it's not limited to a specific card type.
Brainstorm is in my cube but it's far from stellar. I'm just waiting for a U/G/x deck to make use of it with fetches and green ramp. Never seems quite good enough to make the cut, though. It usually just shows up in heavy blue permission decks as a digging tool.
Suggestions for a replacement?
~David Hayden
[420 Peasant Cube] (work in progress)
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/21789
Anyway, instead of brainstorm it depends on what you want. Another cheap selection card? Another draw spell? Tool for aggro? Interesting combo piece?
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
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Portent has a slow cantrip, but can be cast on opponents if that's ever useful.
My 720 Peasant Cube
~David Hayden
[420 Peasant Cube] (work in progress)
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/21789
- My Sig/Banner Shop -HIATUSI would never play thought scour, portent, or opt.
Telling time is just worse than Impulse. It's only better than it if you want at least 2 of your top 3, and you don't want your 4th card more. Even still, impulse can ship your unwanted 4th.
Which then opens the door for think twice vs telling time. Think twice is a card that I probably have been underrating for a long time. I'd imagine card volume trumps the minor extra selection, which explains why telling time has been a standard staple both times it was printed.
Serum visions is a bad preordain.
Careful study probably has some archetype based reason (cough reanimator?) For calibretto to run it.
Shadow rift is kinda cool in that it is a lava spike with a cantrip. Not sure how worth it that is but it's an interesting comparison that combos well curiosity and tandem lookout. Probably still not worth it.
In a vacuum, brainstorm is better than all of the aforementioned 1 drop instants/sorceries except situational serum visions (the upsides of each are a labyrinth to navigate and weigh. Brainstorm is leagues better on turn 0 and worsens as time goes on for each card serum visions puts on the bottom)
Treasure cruise is good but a totally different card.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article